Well, first time flying yesterday. Took my clean, flawless, brand new Sig Kadet Senior ro the field. Hooked up with the instructor and went through the plane. Made a few adjustments but everything was pretty good. Gassed up and tuned then ran a tank through my OS46. Started right up, no problems. Ran it a little rich for break in.

Ready for flight. The instructor taxied out (I need to fix a chronic right turn) and took her up to trim it. Flew straight, easy, and stable. He trimmed it out and brought it in for a lookover. Everything seemed perfect.

Love the Futaba 7CAP by the way ... adjusted all the end points by 20%. Its so easy to do everything on that radio!

Next flight. My turn. My intructor uses long stick extensions instead of a buddy box. I liked it. I could keep my fingers on the right stick and "feel" his flying and then do it on my own. He would stand behind me and tap the corresponding shoulder if I needed an adjustment of any kind.

I flew for quite a while on my own. Figure 8's. Nice steady turns, steady elevation, and a good direction out of the turn (most of the time) Sometimes I would keep too much pressure on the elevator and climb out of the turn a little. Worked on it and had a great time. Rolled. Looped. and then ....

I didn't know what it was called, but he had me do a couple Half Reverse Cuban Eights ... ugly, but a short climb, right turn to inverted, and finishing out the bottom of a loop. Cool. Well ... my third one. I was trying to make the loop longer and smoother and it picked speed. On the way down, right when I was pulling up, the right aileron started flapping .... then flapping LOUDER ... then SNAP, chunks of plane started coming off! The wing servo and tray was hanging by its cable from the wing! I realized I was heading for serious trouble and my instructor took over and managed to gain control, fly it in with the rudder from at a pretty low altitude at this point and land her! He gained control quickly and set her down within seconds, hit the runway at an angle and the plane went into the dirt on its wheels. He saved my plane. I would have had a bag of sticks if I was on my own. A few people gathered around my plane to inpect the damage. The wood that holds the servo tray broke and the linkage and servo tray flopped around in the wind and tore things up a bit. Consensus was that this was a weakness that was going to fail at some point. Good thing it was with my instructor standing over my shoulder!

So ... I have to learn to fix this week too. Seems like an easy fix, but I've never covered before. Heading to the LHS today to buy what I need. I might have some questions and need some help with the repairs later.

Hey new guys ... use an instructor!

Kevin

well said, we've all been there at one point in our flying career. nice plane too. you'll get going again and in no time you'll solo and be hooked
for life like the rest of us. have fun this hobby is great.

I have a question. WHat are end points??
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StoneDeaf

I may have my terms wrong ... I don't remember, but we set the "end points" at 20% less than where they were ... moved 20% less travel. less rudder, elevator, and aileron movement.

Changing the throw with the radio instead of on the plane.

I think thats right ...

Kevin - did he actually use the EPA function or did he do it with the "dual rate" function. Either way is acceptable BTW. Glad your plane survived for the most part and that you have reinforced ONE of the reasons an instructor is very handy to have around.

Good to hear your first experence was a good one.

Welcome to your new addiction.

Thanks kevin. I have a Futaba 7CAP too. That is why I was wondering. I just flew my trainer plane for the 2 time yesterday. He tought me to take off. That is the coolest feeling. hehe
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StoneDeaf

i just have to say, i taught myself, he he. and i agree with what you are saying totally. the biggest part i got out of the whole self taught thing.. HOW TO REPAIR AND MAINTAIN THE PLANE. so i guess one might say, i went at it a little backwards. ... --- ...

When I flew for the second time ever yesterday. If I would not of had an instructer beside me with a buddy box, I would of crashed it a couple of times. But I guess if you have time and money to spend you can crash and repair and crash and repair and crash and repair.
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SToneDeaf[X(]

Not really that simple in all cases. You also have to consider the possible damage/injury an out of control plane can cause, especially if it flies away on you.

Bruce,
I agree with you...so many times I've read postings by guys that just want to tough it out on their own...it's not just the plane that can be "hurt"! Why can't they figure that out on their own?

Kevin,
Welcome, welcome, welcome!!! You're getting in at a great time...easy Christmas gift ideas!!! Kevin needs gift certificates to the local hobby shop. My instructor gave me a Kadet Senior with an OS46 in it as gift for my first plane...loved it till I lost it!!! I also bought the Futaba 7cap...love that radio!!! Enjoy yourself and have a blast!!!!!

Bev

"did he actually use the EPA function or did he do it with the "dual rate" function?"

we used the EPA function ... the dual rate will lower the travel of the servo (the sensitivity) correct??

Not to a degree that you, as a beginner, would ever notice it. And by using the dual rate, as soon as you felt confident, and he agreed, all you would have to do is flip one switch to get full throws back. You could then fly it around and get comfortable with it there. Finally, when ready to land or for any other reason, flip the switch back to low rate and be right back to the trainer throws you WERE comfortable with.
Personally, I've never concerned myself with the "sensitivity" issue as I feel it is overthought. I use Dual Rates on my planes. I also don't use Expo because I don't care for the "feel" it gives the sticks. But to each his own. Experiment and see what works best for YOU.

These are my opinions and we all have some.

BTW - if you do use dual rates, that adds another switch to the preflight that MUST be in the correct position or you may get a surprise.

EPA and Dual Rates are not the same thing....... You can use EPA to adjust the "throw" of the control surace or throttle. Dual Rates lets you set different "throws" in "High Rate" and "Low Rate". You might like to takeoff and land with less elevator travel than you would while flying up high, so you use low rates for that and then use high rates to have more movement while doing loops or aileron rolls, etc. Negative Exponential will give you softer ( less movement) around the center point of the stick but still have the full movement of the control surface at the end of the stick movement. Makes for smoother flying if you are twitchy on the sticks, like me..... You can do a lot with that radio, and talk to some aerobatic flyers on just what the different adjustments do and why they use what they use....Above all HAVE FUN>>>>>>>>>>>&gt ;>>

Bruce...You'er quick on the post, I was typing while you were posting, so I didn't see your post before I sent mine........but I agree with you....

Stone Deaf...End point is the end of the servo travel each way from neutral... which will determine the "throw" or movement of the control surface, or throttle, and is usually reffered to in percentage of movement,,, 100% being the max. If you need less throw or movement , dial the end point don, to maybe 58% or 70% etc. It is best to get close on the surface movement by setting linkages, then fine tuning with EPA. Alos you can set two different values, see the post above.

thats what I thought. I'm going to stick with what I have now and worry about dual rates later. Another switch to throw and a different feel in mid-flight freaks me out just thinking about it. It does sound like a good idea for take-offs and landing.

Unfortunately, I'm more worried about the repairs I'm looking forward to and the covering!

Covering isn't all that bad. Some people make it harder than it really needs to be. Do be sure to get the existing covering VERY clean so the new will stick to it well. Have you seen MinnFlyers covering videos?

I was searching and found the links. I'm at work ... shouldn't be on here anyway ... oops

I'll watch them when I get home ... thanks

Kevin,
The dual rates aren't as scary as they sound. Your best bet would be to set them up for the ailerons and elevator. Take off on high and then try some approaches on high, and some on low....don't land, just get the feel. You won't always need to switch to high rates for landings, but under some higher wind conditions, they do come in handy...it's a great thing to learn right away, especially while you still have use of an instructor. He's probably worth his weight in gold.
Ultacote is the preferred covering by most of my friends. They like it better than monocote.
Bev

Just because the dual rate are set up does mean you have to use them.

Reminds me of what my full scale flight instructor told me about emergency night landings:

Save the battery until you get low and then turn on the landing lights. If you don't like what you see, turn the lights back off.[:@] Glad I never had to test that theory. Did a lot of night flying too.

so does the order of things go like this:

servo linkages ---> epa ---> dual rates?

Yes.

i think i am beginning to understand the dual rate vs epa thing better... at first you must make sure that the model is physically adjusted properly, i.e. the servo rods arent too long or too short etc... somewhere in the menus of my tx it has the option to set the steering's left and right maximum independently , and its labelled as 'epa'(end point adjustment), you dont change this often and you only change it when youve done some major changes to your steering system... and then right where your thumb will go on the handle theres a clicky wheel, that you roll to increase or decrease the sensitivity of the steering wheel as a whole, and its labelled as 'd/r' , you change this depending on which track you go to , maybe also the condition of the track...

oops i forgot i was meant to pretend that im talking about planes, but im sure that there are analogies for helping newbies understand endpoints vs dual rates in planes

Actually carmatic (and I shouldn't be answering this because it would be better suited in the radio or car forums) the D/R on a aircraft radio is a switch that has preset amounts of deflection either high or low (preset by the pilot), the D/R on your surface radio is only on the steering and is more of an on the fly EPA in the fact that it allows you to add or subtract directly from the preset epa with a multi position thumb wheel.
in an aircraft radio there is no adjusting the amount of deflection of the D/R while flying it is either in the preset high deflection or low deflection position. and you only need to change the EPA on the steering to give it max throw without binding the linkages.

Sorry Kevin I didn't mean to jam up your post like that but most car guys have no Idea as to the function of there radios except forward real fast, and turn. Congrats on your first flights and I am glad to hear the Senior came home in one piece. I too trained and soloed on a Senior and it is a joy to fly. and is also alot of fun to shoot touch and goes with. Good luck and hope to hear that you soloed soon.

When we say "adjust linkages first" we mean both the length and their positions of attachment to the servo arm and the surface control horn. By choosing the correct attachment points you can minimize the amount of EPA adjustment required to get the desired throw. Get the linkage close to ideal and then tweak with EPA and then set D/R if desired and expo too.
Don't get too fancy all at once and learn the effects of one function before experimenting with the next.