just wondering after seing someone doing a super slooowww roll and a snap roll with a high wing trainer with dihedral, what other basic or advance aerobatic moves possible with a TRAINER??

You can do pretty much any aerobatics with a trainer that you can do with any other plane... I am able to put my wifes LT 40 with a 46 through the intermediate AMA pattern sequence without any trouble (it may not look pretty but you can recognize each manouver) about the only thing I have problems doing with a trainier compared to an aerobatic plane is putting it in a spin... I just have trouble getting it to stall the way I want....

I did lots of aerobatics with my trainer.
Loops, inverted flying, cuban eight, reversed cuban eight, split s, and lots of rolls with the surface travels set to maximum
You can definately have fun with a trainer. I still have my Kyosho calmato and I love it.

I used to idle the engine in strong wind and watch it stay stationary like a kite

During the my pre-solo days, flying a NexSTAR trainer, my instructor, a Pattern flyer, would usually do a routine, on the first flight of the day, that involved several maneuvers that were definitely aerobatic. He would say that it was not easy to do, but the plane still did them. I would watch in amazement thinking that some day, I would be able to do that.

Now, I am the instructor and do a few of the maneuvers, but not the same complex ones that my instructor would do. What usually amazes the new students is how smooth and consistent my landings were.. are... The rolls, loops, stall-turns, cuban 8's, split S, and so on, were neat, but they liked to watch me land the plane. That was and still is, something that I practice a lot.. touch and go's all the time. Anyway, that's not the point here.. The aerobatic maneuvers may not be as easy to do as with, say the Excelleron 90 which tracks straight as an arrow.. but the trainer will definitely do them. Not the prettiest looking moves with a trainer, but they will do it.

And, as FADI said, going very slow into the wind and watching the plane stop it's ground speed was pretty neat. If you are going to do that, though, I would suggest being a couple mistakes high in altitude.. (meaning, perhaps 100 feet or more up).

DS.

I don't think a trainer can do a snap roll, but if you have a good engine/prop combo you can hang on the prop which looks really cool if its an LT40 with the big 70" wing and long body!! [8D]

A trainer can certainly do a snap roll, both inside and out. I fly them all the time with my rascal 40, and thats even more of a trainer than your typical trainers.

I wouldn't consider a plane with a Semi-Symmetrical Elliptical Wing a trainer. The wings don't look like they have any or very little dihedral and the throws for the ailerons are 3 times more than a typical trainer. The Rascal does sound like a fun plane to fly though![8D]
Control Throws-
Ailerons: Up & Down 3/4" (18mm)
Elevator: Up & Down 3/4" (18mm)
Rudder: Right & Left 1"

It really depends upon, (a) whether the trainer has a flat bottom (Aquila) or semi-flat (Clark Y) aerofoil, or a semi or fully symmetrical one, and (b) the amount of excess thrust available (ie: a function of engine power & prop fitted).

For a typical high wing trainer with a semi-symmetrical aerofoil such as a TWM Sky Raider Mach I, all the primary manoeuvres, including spins, can be performed reasonably well with even a modest powerplant. eg: 40LA. Of course, due to the span (65"), roll rate is relatively subdued so snaps aren;t spectacular and there's not much oomph for verticals, and the airframe must be flown through vertical manoeuvres with appreciation of energy management. With a more powerful engine in that airframe such as an LA46 or better, typical Sportsman pattern combos such as top hats, stall turns with ¼ rolls etc can start being performed with increasing ease in the vertical. Usually not as clean or as graceful as a purpose designed pattern ship even in the .46 class, but the manoeuvres can be performed so as to be completely identifiable regardless.

I get really nice spins out of an LT-40, including some fairly flat flatspins. It's not hard, just move the CG back and increase the rudder and elevator throw. Do that enough, and you can spin anything (once, at least).

The LT-40 has a huge fixed vertical stab which makes it harder to spin than many trainers, but with enough encouragement, it does them. It also helps to enter the spin from a climb, or at least pull the nose hard-up and get to 0 airspeed as the nose drops. Full rudder and elevator as the nose drops (and no ailerons either way), and it drops in to a spin pretty easily.

Btw, moving the CG back also helps with rolls and a lot of the other acrobatic maneuvers, and it makes it easier to flare on landing as well. But it does hurt the slipping a bit, it's easier to get a dramatic sideslip with a nose-heavy trainer. Not that it can't slip tail-heavy, just that it's harder to hold it for a low-slow-sideways pass.

Well.. I was flying my brothers trainer this weekend and I came in inverted about 30ft off the deck and It would not come out.. I had all the elevator that I could push and it just pulled in to the ground. I could not pull it up. I did trottle back right before impact.. LOL!! It just broke the firewall off and popped the rudder off. Easy fix..


LATER

Most trainers don't do outside loops very well. Set up as in the instructions, most will barely hold inverted level flight, never mind turn or pull up while inverted.

But you can get better outside looping by increasing the down elevator travel and moving the CG back. Going to a prop with more diameter and less pitch can also help the inverted flight, I'm using an 11x5 APC on an LT-40 with an Evolution .45 trainer engine. It's a pretty good combination. Oh, and I took the baffle out of the muffler for a little extra power.

Perhaps in the good (?) 'ole days, but most of today's trainers with semi-symmetrical wings will perform inverted flight including outside manoeuvres without even a hiccup. Same as + g flight, power is the only consideration. eg: TWM's superb Sky Raider Mach I and World Star 40 et al trainer designs, Kyosho's Calmato (high wing), Seagull's Boomerang 40 (the flat bottom winged 60 isn't as happy with outsides); Phoenix's ubiquitious but tiny Classic ...etc.etc.

Well, the trainers we see around here are usually the Alpha, Hobbistar/NextStar and LT-40, all of which have flat-bottom airfoils. The Arrow from H9 has a semi-semetrical airfoil, but the incidence agles and thrust line on that plane are a mess to try to make it fly more "trainer like".

Oh, another trainer-acrobatics trick. Raise both ailerons a little bit. That "reflex" will often reduce pitch changes with airspeed and can really help inverted flight.

I have only one trainer and i musty say that it is impossible too do annoutside loop its just dwont do it il try a 12x4 as im now runnin an 11x6.

If you make the changes talked about above, it will probably be able to do it. What is the trainer? Most trainers are set up very nose-heavy by design, which helps learning to fly, but really hurts acrobatics. You'll also need to increase the down-elevator travel.

While you're at it, inspect the elevator pushrod. Most trainers have the pushrod below the stab, so it pushes for "up" and pulls for down. That means you won't have any problem with pulling hard down. But if you're elevator pushrod is on top, and the rod can flex, then you might get solid "up", but not get any effective down elevator when the pushrod flexes. I've seen this a couple of times with planes that would loop inside easily but couldn't push outside.

I had an RCM 40 (Global) with a TT Pro-46 and it could do outside loops. Also flew inverted very well. Immelmans, split esses, no problem. Trainers are, and rightly so, set up nose heavy. If you feel extremely brave begin moving the center-of-gravity back 1/8" at a time (but never more than 3/8" or so total). The RCM 40 had a slightly less than flat-bottomed airfoil and I also had it set at high throws with flaperons so I could dial the ailerons up as slightly spoiled (?) as Montague suggested. Has the effect of changing the datum line of the chord and slightly reducing wing area/lift. Most trainers benefit more from setting the ailerons as spoilers instead of flaps if you decide to bother with that feature at all. But get it figured out "straight" for several months before toying with mid-flight adjustments. Anything that may cause you to look away from the model (like finding the flap knob) is a bad idea early on.