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AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Old 01-31-2003, 05:28 PM
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Whirley Bird
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Hi Gang,
Below is a picture of the steel rod that was a discussion not long ago.
I set it on two 2X4's and wacked it as hard as I can.
See the picture.
I like to see the wings that survived because this steel rod took a good bend and the balsa held up.
Pictures of the rod and wings involved were supposed to be posted but it never happened.
The test were,
1.supporting the steel rod in a 1" wooden dowel.
The wooden dowel shattered.
2.had a 14 year old boy stand on the rod while the ends were resting on 2 2X4's.
Took a slight bow but bounced back when the weight was removed.
3.Tried to bend the steel rod by applying body weight on both ends and pressing the center against the edge of a steel desk.
4. Today a very solid hit with a base ball bat and we did manage to put a slight bend in the steel rod but there is no way the leading edge made of balsa would have taken a blow like that and so many say the rod bent and the wing survived.
WHERES THE PICTURES??????????
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Old 02-02-2003, 06:22 AM
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ho2zoo
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Default Steel leading edge?

I must have missed the previous discussion about this but, why on earth would you want a steel rod for a leading edge??

Are you planning to cut down trees with your plane?

Please explain.
Old 02-02-2003, 07:44 AM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Ho2zoo

See http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...2&pagenumber=2

Whirley Bird's test is based on this older post, I will let Him explain more.

Dan ZZ
Old 02-02-2003, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Steel leading edge?

Originally posted by ho2zoo
I must have missed the previous discussion about this but, why on earth would you want a steel rod for a leading edge??

Are you planning to cut down trees with your plane?

Please explain.
.The leading edge is not steel.
The leading edge has a steel rod inserted into it appx 3" from the front and I had many tell me that this steel rod will bend to save the wing.
This is in the TH trainer RTF planes.But for some reason the ARF kits have a wooden dowel.
I asked for pictures from other who said they had saved their wing because the steek rod bent.
There is no way that rod can absorb any shock load.
I tried every test I coould except fly my own plane and let one wing slam into a tree at 40 MPH.
I don't want to destroy my plane to prove a point.
My concern now is finding out why the kit version had a wooden dowel and the RTF version has a steel rod
If i'm missing something i'd sure would like some input.
Old 02-02-2003, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Re: Steel leading edge?

Originally posted by Whirley Bird

.My concern now is finding out why the kit version had a wooden dowel and the RTF version has a steel rod
If i'm missing something i'd sure would like some input.
If they used the wooden joiner you would need to epoxy the thing in place, therefore they would not be able to advertise it as only taking 20 minutes to assemble. Just a guess. The kit version also does not have the tail feathers put on with 2 screws.
Ed M.
Old 02-02-2003, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Steel leading edge?

Originally posted by bentgear


If they used the wooden joiner you would need to epoxy the thing in place, therefore they would not be able to advertise it as only taking 20 minutes to assemble. Just a guess. The kit version also does not have the tail feathers put on with 2 screws.
Ed M.
.You missed my point.
The RTF planes have a steel rod.
The kit version has a wooded joiner dowel.
I'm trying to figure out why because when the kit version is finished you have the same plane
Old 02-02-2003, 04:52 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Whirley Bird,
You are talking about the steel rod that inserts between the wings at the spar, correct? Then you have a steel strap that screws on to keep the wings from coming apart, correct?

If both the above are correct statements then I think I answered your question.
Ed M.
Old 02-02-2003, 07:52 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Whirley Bird
In post #33 of the link above (ho2zoo post)
Those were all ARF type's ARF RTF AWARF and Select, none were actual build up kits. ( that i refered to)

They 'did or do' still have kit versions, and those were all (wooden wing joiners) Wooden dowel???

bentgear
You are correct, (but the "test" is, why the rod bends?)
not why it has a rod.

It has a steel rod for the reason You have stated, Ease of assembly in 20 minutes"
And to be able transport in smaller vehicles allowing the wing to come apart.

Dan Z
Old 02-02-2003, 08:46 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bentgear


If both the above are correct statements then I think I answered your question.
Ed M.
.Forgive me Ed but what question did you answer?
Old 02-02-2003, 08:56 PM
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Whirley Bird
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by wornboots
Whirley Bird
In post #33 of the link above (ho2zoo post)
Those were all ARF type's ARF RTF AWARF and Select, none were actual build up kits. ( that i refered to)

They 'did or do' still have kit versions, and those were all (wooden wing joiners) Wooden dowel???

bentgear
You are correct, (but the "test" is, why the rod bends?)
not why it has a rod.

It has a steel rod for the reason You have stated, Ease of assembly in 20 minutes"
And to be able transport in smaller vehicles allowing the wing to come apart.

Dan Z
.Dan,
Let me try this again.
I was told that the steel rod was inserted just like the wooden dowel joiner.
But several others said that steel rod will bend before the balsa wing would self destruct.
READ THIS AGAIN!!!!
The kits have the wooden joiner.
The READY TO FLY have the steel rod.
SAME PLANE BUT ONE IS A KIT AND THE OTHER IS READY TO FLY.
There is no way that steel rod will bend so the wing will survive.
Several others told me this and they were going to send me pictures but never did.
I placed a brutal blow to that steel rod with a baseball bat and only put a bow into the rod about 1/4 or less.
No way a balsa wing will survive impact that will bend that steel rod
Old 02-03-2003, 05:01 AM
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bentgear
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Whirley Bird, I answered your question that I quoted in my post. It boils down to assembly time.

Ed M.
Old 02-03-2003, 05:17 AM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bentgear
Whirley Bird, I answered your question that I quoted in my post. It boils down to assembly time.

Ed M.
.I don't understand that.
10 minutes to glue in the wood joiner and as for the steel rod you just slide in place.
From what I read the kits are all wood rods and the RTF planes are all steel rods.
Thats what i'm trying to find out.
I don't think it has anything to do with assembly time.
What can the wood joiner weigh?
The steel rod is about a pound or close to it.
I'm going to weigh it on a deli scale thats certified.
I'll post the results here
Old 02-03-2003, 05:55 AM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Ok, I'll bite.

The metal rod is in the spar of the RTF planes.

The rod in my Avistar's wing has bent twice. That's me in the other thread making the claim that a bending rod will save a wing. I'll be the first to admit that I'm guessing here. I have no way of knowing for a fact that the wing would have broken if it had been glued. But I'd bet good money that HAD I GLUED THE ROD IN, I would have had a major repair after the two incidents because something would have broken. Imagine ripping out all the ribs to get the rod out and straightened. Wow. What a mess that would be.

Yes, it was a pain to straighten the rod. I was surprised that it bent. Both times.

It bent the first time during a mild crash when the firewall got knocked out. I repaired that. The second time the rod was bent during some on-the-ground abuse. The wing survived both incidents. I still fly this plane. The wing doesn't look beat up.

Although I CAN post pictures, I don't recall ever stating that I would do so. Nor do I understand what any photos would prove because the rod is now straight and I have no intentions of removing it from the wing or bending it again intentionally.

-brad
Old 02-03-2003, 06:01 AM
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bentgear
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Whirley Bird.

OK, lets get back to basics.

First its not a kit, its an ARF.

The Select version is marketed as being ready to fly in 20 minutes.
This version has the steel rod and the bolt on tail parts.

The MonoKoted ARF version is part of the 90% complete crowd.
This version requires that the wings be glued together and the tail parts be glued on.

Back off and think about it for a minute. If you can glue the wing and tail together in less than 20 minutes I sure don't want to be around when it flies. Not to mention that you still have to install the hinges for control surfaces and install the radio gear.

ASSEMBLY TIME.

I went and read the other thread you mentioned. Since the metal rod is so close to being on the CG the weight would make very little difference.

Ed M.
Old 02-03-2003, 02:11 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bentgear
Whirley Bird.

OK, lets get back to basics.

First its not a kit, its an ARF.

The Select version is marketed as being ready to fly in 20 minutes.
This version has the steel rod and the bolt on tail parts.

Ed M.
.I never said I put mine together in 20 minutes.
Also an ARF that requires 15-20 hours of work before you can fly it is a kit to me
Old 02-03-2003, 02:27 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bgi
Ok, I'll bite.

The metal rod is in the spar of the RTF planes.

-brad
.From what I know about aircraft a spar is a main structure part that is located between the trailing edge and the leading edge and goes from the root to the wing tip.
The select 40 and the Avistar have only a big block of balsa where the wings butt together.
And that section supports the steel rod.
Reallynot much to that wing since the leading edge and wing tips take up a lot of area so very few ribs are used
A trur spar will run from root to the wing tip.
If you read all the back post I never said to glue that rod but many others said to glue the wings together.
I don't glue mine and it's much better for transporting.
I think most were talking about the wing with the wooden joiner.
KIts have the wood joiner and the RTF has the steek rod.
WHY?
Old 02-03-2003, 03:05 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

If you want to know why the RTF has a steel rod, simply read this thread. It has been posted several times.
Old 02-03-2003, 04:25 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bgi
If you want to know why the RTF has a steel rod, simply read this thread. It has been posted several times.
.Well if it's because it saves time putting the wing together I don't by that.
How long can it take to glue in a wooden joiner?
Old 02-03-2003, 04:48 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

half an hour to let the epoxy set... then it wouldnt be "ready in 20 minutes" and it would require glue.

so they put in the steel rod to make it a "bolt on" setup.
Old 02-03-2003, 05:15 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bgi
If you want to know why the RTF has a steel rod, simply read this thread. It has been posted several times.
Sorry if I offended anyone but I was always the type who has to know everything and that wood joiner vs the steel rod bugs me.
OFFICE CLOSED
50* and i'm going flying ALL DAY LONG
Old 02-03-2003, 07:59 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Also an ARF that requires 15-20 hours of work before you can fly it is a kit to me


You might not be saying that after you build your first real kit...
Old 02-03-2003, 10:25 PM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by Flyfalcons
Also an ARF that requires 15-20 hours of work before you can fly it is a kit to me


You might not be saying that after you build your first real kit...
.
Yes,Your right but I did hear some horror stories that some of the 15-20 ARF planes turned into more like 30-40.Look in the TH catalog and look at the time they give to build the TH FUN 51 KIT.
24 hours.
There nothing to the plane.
I built one up several years ago and had it all finished in one night.
Doesn't look like much but it's fast
Old 02-04-2003, 02:57 AM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Whirley Bird,
Judging by your post above, you just proved my point. Hope the flying was good.
Ed M.
Old 02-04-2003, 03:20 AM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Originally posted by bentgear
Whirley Bird,
Judging by your post above, you just proved my point. Hope the flying was good.
Ed M.
.The flying was great.
I have the biggest airstrip less then 200 yards from me.
Did some nice super big hi altitude loops and rolls and several touch and go's.
I flew that trainer inverted and pulled it up vertical but just lacked the power to push it over the hump so I inverted again then rolled it .horizontal.
Not bad for a trainer with an OS 40.
I do have the throws set for max and I think that helps
Old 02-04-2003, 05:37 AM
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Default AVistar/Trainer & steel leading edge rod

Whirly bird

Ok I admit I am a little slow sometimes"

I your post you did all you could to bend the STEEL ROD?

But Your concern is saving weight?

Then the wood joiner in the kits? ARF is a kit? RTF has steel rod?

Now if this is not what You are getting at let Me know what I am not understanding.
Thank's Dan Z

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