Torque on Takeoff Causing Big Trouble!
#26
Have you check how the plane tracks on the ground?
Roll it down a small incline or push it forward and make sure that the tailwheel causes it to track straight.
It sounds like adjusting the tail wheel assembly is all that is needed.
Roll it down a small incline or push it forward and make sure that the tailwheel causes it to track straight.
It sounds like adjusting the tail wheel assembly is all that is needed.
#27
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
It tracks straight - the problem is that the tail gear is VERY flexy - there's about an inch and half of slop in either direction.
#28

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Thomas--Your getting lots of advice. All sounds good. What worked for me is toe in on the gear and hoding up elevator just long enough to get started straight. Once the tail comes off the ground its all rudder. I wouldnt worry to much about the tail wheel. I've taken off planes with missing tail wheels, or with a skid runner for a "wheel." Whoever talked about the Cub not being a good trainer is right on! Just because they are slow, doesn't mean they are easy. I am building a 1/4 scale cub now and have a 83" clipped wing by Great Planes. I toed the wheels too much after having difficulty keeping it straight and it more or less "walked" like a penguin. guys in the pits had a good time with that. You might also try taking off from the grass, if you have it available. Good luck, and get the left thrust out of your plane. You said it was a Sportsman Aviation. I built Paramount 3D by that company for a club raffle and can say it was a real piece of junk. Hope your stick is better.
#29
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
Oddly enough, the plane flies REALLY well. The ground-handling is a deal breaker, though. Plus it makes me look like a complete idiot at the field.
#30
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
Could it be that the rudder is too small? A bigger rudder would be more effective at lower speeds, correct? There is no trouble controlling it once it gets moving.
The plane has a "Das Ugly Stik" style rudder that is a half-circle in shape. It's pretty small.
The plane has a "Das Ugly Stik" style rudder that is a half-circle in shape. It's pretty small.
#32
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
ORIGINAL: jeb21
if the shoe fits...

if the shoe fits...

#34

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I use a free-floating tail wheel on all of my tail draggers. I hate the ones that have the steering wire pushed into the rudder. One medium to hard landing and the rudder is torn apart. I just removed the control wire and let the tail wheel run freely without directional control. I have NEVER had a problem with takeoff's with this setup. I just add slow inputs to the throttle (well, what is slow.. the planes pick up speed quite rapidly) at the very beginning of the roll, and push throttle forward in one slow smooth operation and steer using the rudder. The rudder becomes effective almost immediately from the engine thrust/prop wash and a little rudder overcomes engine torque, and up it goes, straight as an arrow.
Perhaps it takes some practice to do that, but that's the way I learned to fly and I've had very few problems.
I did, however, react to a problem by using the wrong hand which resulted in a totally destroyed Venus 40 but that was my brain malfunction not the plane [sm=cry_smile.gif]
DS.
Perhaps it takes some practice to do that, but that's the way I learned to fly and I've had very few problems.
I did, however, react to a problem by using the wrong hand which resulted in a totally destroyed Venus 40 but that was my brain malfunction not the plane [sm=cry_smile.gif]
DS.
#36

ORIGINAL: Thomas B. Chong
How do you taxi the plane with a free floating tail wheel? Sounds like there would be no steering control at idle.
How do you taxi the plane with a free floating tail wheel? Sounds like there would be no steering control at idle.
You need to add power sometimes and use the RUD-DER. Not always easy but can be done.
#37
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
Seeing as I can't even manage to roll straight with a steerable tail wheel, I'm thinkin this method is way beyond my skill level - [
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]
#38
Yeah...
Eliminate the sloppy tail wheel.
At worst use something like this:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLGN7&P=7
Position it so you get ample movement of the tail wheel when the rudder moves.
Set the rudder to the highest recommended rate and then use at most 15% expo on it.
This will permit you to easily track down the runway with adecuate "authority". Too much Expo will tend to make it difficult to control on the ground...
You'll find that the plane will be MUCH improved this way.
Eliminate the sloppy tail wheel.
At worst use something like this:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLGN7&P=7
Position it so you get ample movement of the tail wheel when the rudder moves.
Set the rudder to the highest recommended rate and then use at most 15% expo on it.
This will permit you to easily track down the runway with adecuate "authority". Too much Expo will tend to make it difficult to control on the ground...
You'll find that the plane will be MUCH improved this way.
#39
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ORIGINAL: soresoar
I've been around RC planes for many years (most recently sailplanes and dynamic soaring) but I only recently got back into glow.
I am having major problems controlling my plane (a low-wing Stick taildragger) on the takeoff roll. The plane will make a 90 degree turn to the left at full throttle that is barely correctible.
Is this "normal" for this type of plane? I know some amount of right rudder is necessary on takeoff, but this is truly ridiculous.
Also, could my landing gear/wheels be at fault? There is quite a bit of play in both the main wheels (Du-Bro low-bounce) and the tail gear.
THe plane, for those who were wondering, is a .46 size Sport Stick from Hobby People (pretty good flyer, actually)
I've been around RC planes for many years (most recently sailplanes and dynamic soaring) but I only recently got back into glow.
I am having major problems controlling my plane (a low-wing Stick taildragger) on the takeoff roll. The plane will make a 90 degree turn to the left at full throttle that is barely correctible.
Is this "normal" for this type of plane? I know some amount of right rudder is necessary on takeoff, but this is truly ridiculous.
Also, could my landing gear/wheels be at fault? There is quite a bit of play in both the main wheels (Du-Bro low-bounce) and the tail gear.
THe plane, for those who were wondering, is a .46 size Sport Stick from Hobby People (pretty good flyer, actually)
Don't firewall the throttle on takeoff. No lie.
Gyroscopic precession, p-effect, and engine torque all contribute to the left turn. And all three of those effect the takeoff in proportion to how fast you jam that stick to full throttle. Move the throttle with some skill and you won't have much left-turn to bother with.
We've got a number of Decathlons at the field. They all have a really bad left-turn problem. Well, truth is, we've only really got ONE Decathlon at the field most of the time, and it doesn't have a left-turn problem at all. It's mine, and I never firewall the throttle on takeoff. And truth is, the other Decathlons haven't been out since their first outings, because the owners don't bring them anymore. The owners simply won't (or can't) bring themselves to takeoff without trying to get it over with as quickly as possible. And have convinced themselves the airplanes are at fault.
#40
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
I heeded that same advice last weekend, and found the problem to be even worse. In fact, I concluded that the problem with the plane was happening during the period of time when the plane was moving too fast to use the tail wheel (tail wheel off the ground) but not fast enough to get rudder authority. The problem got much, much worse when I tried to gradually increase the throttle. Gunning it resulted in a very short period of no control.
#41
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
ORIGINAL: FlyingGreg
It appears the Thomas and Jeb are acquainted--
It appears the Thomas and Jeb are acquainted--
#42
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
Ordered new tail gear from the evil empire (Tower) on Monday, it shipped by mail Tuesday from Reno Nevada. I'm in Los Angeles, stuff still hasn't shown up, so no flying for me this weekend.
This problem is frustrating the daylights out of me and I really need to get it fixed soon or I'll go nuts...
In between another dead stick landing this morning, Captain Dead-Stick (JEB21) apparently also had a ground loop problem with his Pulse XT, which leads me to believe that operator error is playing a larger role in this debacle than my bad tail wheel. I know there is an easy answer somewhere, I just can't figure what it is. I tried firewalling the throttle, easing it forward, and both resulted in disaster. The only thing that's worked at all is having someone hold the plane while gunning the throttle, and then letting go when there was already air moving over the rudder. Plane took off straight as an arrow, with minimal rudder correction.
This problem is frustrating the daylights out of me and I really need to get it fixed soon or I'll go nuts...
In between another dead stick landing this morning, Captain Dead-Stick (JEB21) apparently also had a ground loop problem with his Pulse XT, which leads me to believe that operator error is playing a larger role in this debacle than my bad tail wheel. I know there is an easy answer somewhere, I just can't figure what it is. I tried firewalling the throttle, easing it forward, and both resulted in disaster. The only thing that's worked at all is having someone hold the plane while gunning the throttle, and then letting go when there was already air moving over the rudder. Plane took off straight as an arrow, with minimal rudder correction.
#43
Thomas you may also want to hold up elevator longer so that the tail wheel is forced on the ground.
I have a few tail draggers that love to yaw on me.
I usually get them aligned on the runway, move the throttle up to about 30-40%, making sure that the plane is tracking straight, put in up some elevator, then give it full throttle.
This drops the "transition" range to a minimal amount of time, and the full throttle will prevent you from stalling the plane out once it lifts from the runway.
I have a few tail draggers that love to yaw on me.
I usually get them aligned on the runway, move the throttle up to about 30-40%, making sure that the plane is tracking straight, put in up some elevator, then give it full throttle.
This drops the "transition" range to a minimal amount of time, and the full throttle will prevent you from stalling the plane out once it lifts from the runway.
#44

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Thomas--Why don't you let someone with a lot of tail dragger experience try taking off with your plane? If they can do it you will know it's not necesarrily your plane. Trying to learn this over the RCU forum is like leaning to ride a bicycle from a book.
#45
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From: Pacific Palisades, CA
I'd love to hand someone else the sticks, but everyone at the field was afraid to touch the darn thing after seeing it do doughnuts all over the runway...at least those that hadn't left the field altogether in fear for their lives.
#46
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From: Bend,
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soarsore,
I took full scale flying lessons years ago and got my full scale pilot's license. The one thing that my instructor had me do is put the throttle to the panel all the way........."full throttle".........you don't want to gingerly take off, but take off with authority. The throttle advance should be smooth but steady to full throttle. Once airborn, you can decrease the throttle to cruising speed or any speed you are comfortable with. As for the thrust you are experiencing, use right rudder to keep the model level and straight. Some aileron might be required in a wind otherwise, it's mostly rudder control to counteract the p-factor. Hope that helps,
Andy
I took full scale flying lessons years ago and got my full scale pilot's license. The one thing that my instructor had me do is put the throttle to the panel all the way........."full throttle".........you don't want to gingerly take off, but take off with authority. The throttle advance should be smooth but steady to full throttle. Once airborn, you can decrease the throttle to cruising speed or any speed you are comfortable with. As for the thrust you are experiencing, use right rudder to keep the model level and straight. Some aileron might be required in a wind otherwise, it's mostly rudder control to counteract the p-factor. Hope that helps,
Andy
#47
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From: Terrell,
TX
free advice:have 2 or 3degrees of right thrust on the engine, toe in on the mains, low rate with rudder,add expo if your radio is so equiped,tail wheel isn't that big a deal,hold up elevator,build speed at a good clip,not firewall,steer with small inputs to rudder,as speeds builds ease up on elevator keep steering with rudder and that's about it.have fun and practice a bunch.



