Our club meeting is in a few days and I wanted to bounce this off you guys, make sure I`m not out of line, before voicing my concerns at the meeting.
For the last 4 or 5 weeks, there has be the same 7 or 8 guys at the field.
1 is a AMA board member
1 Is the Club safety instructor
2 or 3 are instructors.

I`m the only one that post or use the freq board and follow the clubs rules when it`s just us there.

They take off out of the pit area , don`t call out anything , such as coming out, landing , on the field, nothing.

They fly , sitting on their tailgates 50 feet behind the flight stations

I about had my head taken off by a Gasser that was taking off behind me in the pit area. And there has been a few other problems between them and the members that follow the rules . Been a few close calls. All of which could be avoided by following the rules and using common courtesy.

Am I out of line with my concerns ? When their not there , every one flies by the rules . and things go so much smoother.

WOW! [X(]

What a case of "Do as I say - Not as I do" quickly followed up by "The Rules are ment for Everyone else".

YES!, I would bring this up at a meeting!

Name - Names, give dates, and situations.

Emphasize the rules broken and the possible consequences - not the least of which how the club's charter could be pulled if there was an incident AND no one's insurance would be valid when the truth came out! [&o]

This is Serious stuff!

HOWEVER: be prepared to be the BLACK SHEEP of the club for a while, these sort of folks do not like their tree to be shaken. [>:]

Safety is always the main concern at any flying field. Have you approached these gentlmen at the field and asked them about these issue's? Sometimes the direct approach is the best. If the problem still persist's, then I think I would approach the club with the problem. Good Luck, Dave

Insanemoondoggie,
Wow, that is a really bad situation you described. Yes, you should address this issue no matter who is involved. Look at the situation you described and think about this... If an accident happens that turns into a claim on the AMA insurace there is a good chance that the AMA will not pay because the rules established by the AMA were not being followed. So ask the guys breaking the rules if they have a couple million dollars in the bank if they hit someone, because the AMA won't help them.

This a very very bad situation that needs to be addressed. These guys are just asking for somebody to get hurt, and it's only a matter of time before that happens. You should step up and call them out on this problem.

Ken

Definitely voice your concerns but I would not do it at a public club meeting. Although the incidences at the club I belonged to were not as bad as yours I still mentioned them. For example, I saw people starting their planes without them being tied down (the field had tiedowns in the pits) and facing the parking lot. I had the same reservations about bringing up safety violations. I did not want to 'make waves' being new to the club, but I did not want to get hurt when flying either.

What I did was to get some personal one-on-one time with the Safety Officer and several of the other club officers. I told them I was concerned for my own safety and asked for them to interpret the rules, who should adhere to them, etc. Their response was that all members were to follow the rules. They said I should say something when I see the violations, and I did - in a nice way, however, nothing changed.

The bottom line here is that if you do not voice your opinion then someone could get hurt or worse. I know I would feel terrible if someone got hurt and they may not have if only I had said something.

Good luck!

First, are your club rules posted anywhere? Is each member required to read and sign that they agree to these rules?

A decade or so ago my club was having a horrible problem with members on each others backs for violating 'rules'. I finally asked someone to show me this list of rules. Turns out they were urban myth. After a three month search some one turned up a FIVE year old news letter that had some suggested guidlines, but again they weren't the clubs rules.

So we had a rules writing session and voted them in to effect. Everyone gets a copy every year when they renew their membership.

First make shure you actually have some rules to stand on.

And the 1 guy is your safety istructor, Heck Yah![X(]

Welcome to club politics, eh? Actually, I think what you're running into is a group where familiarity has bread informality. Those guys have probably been together for a long time, and likely know each other's equipment and flying habits well. If you've been quietly going along, they won't have any idea that you're uncomfortable.

I would suggest talking to them while you're at the field first. How do these guys behave when it's more than just you and them?

do you mention anything to them at the field???



Some people (while it is NOT EXCUSE) get a bit lax during the winter time.....

Robbie, I agree with Mike, David and a few others. If it were me, I wouldn't take it to a board meeting.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't like a lot of rules, and at our field, we have a freq board, but it is rarely used. But then, it's rare that we have more that 3 or 4 guys at the field and it's a lot easier to say "Hey Billy, what channel are you on?"

On the other hand, when I go to an event at another field, I always pay close attention to the rules.

But when it's just "the guys" it's nice to relax the rules - however it should not be done at the risk of injury.

Had I been in your situation I would have said, "Hey (Insert name here), let me know when you're gonna do that! You almost killed me!!!"

If you do that, you'll become "One of the guys" instead of, "That guy who ratted us out"

well put MinnFlyer.

I'm going to add a disclaimer before I get jumped on...

I KNOW that my advice is "Politically Incorrect" and to some members in large clubs it may sound totally wrong and dangerous.

But out here in smaller communities, and with smaller clubs, it's just not the same as some of the large clubs I've been in on the east coast.

Boy I think you hit it on the head, they have been talked to by several different members, respectfully , but seriously.
Man the last thing I want to do is get cross ways with anyone. And am looking for the path of less resistance. I`ll talk to the club officers off to the side and let them deal with it. I`m just interested in everyone having a good time and being safe.
Posting the Club rules is a start. I`ll make sure their posted today.
Thanks for all the input . It really helps get a better idea of what to do . A refresher course on the Clubs rules and safety standards would be good for all of us. Might be a good way to get everyone on the same page.

a very dangerous act. they should know better. here in western australia if it is done here they would be talken to by the safety officer if they do it again they get their membership suspended and can't fly at any club for awhile when that happens should see them whinge about it but rules are there for every one not just individuals

Safety is always the main concern at any flying field. Have you approached these gentlmen at the field and asked them about these issue's? Sometimes the direct approach is the best. If the problem still persist's, then I think I would approach the club with the problem. Good Luck, Dave
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What he said.

I know what your saying MinnFlyer. When it just a few ,it`s no problem . It gets very uncomfortable when there is 10 to 12 planes and 3 or 4 Heli`s.
I`ve decided to take my ball and go home when things get outside my comfort zone. There are other Clubs.

OK, if the AMA board member is flying in an unsafe manner routinley, I would personally setup a video camera to "catch" the act. Then I would send a copy in to the AMA to rat him out. There is no excuse for reckless flying at all. If you are on the flight line and someone takes off behind you and over your head, they should be thrown out on their ear. I don't care how much of a good old boy click they are in. They have no right to put your life in danger just because they are a member of the good old boy click and are lazy. I also feel they don't deserve to be AMA board members or safety instructors or even flight instructors if they don't think the SAFETY rules are important enough for them to follow.

I don't agree with not using the freq board, but my no. 1 concern would be for the safety of the fellow fliers and following the be at the flight line to fly, don't take off right out of the pitts, and alway announce what you are doing if a fellow flier might be at risk.

Would these same people think it is ok for you to land on the runway while they are retriveing their plane off the runway?

That's a great way to make friends. There's no need to burn anyone there, or to try to get anyone in trouble. There are ways to fix this without making an unsafe situation into a situation that is unfriendly. The first step is to just talk to people. The reason I'd suggest that rather than bringing it up at a club meeting is that minutes are taken at meetings, or should be, anyway. People act a bit differently when something is on a record.

This is the kind of thing you fix in the way that preserves relationships and addresses the problem.

Before you bring this up at your next meeting have you found other members who have your concerns? If so I would ask them to support you at the meeting and get the issue out in the open. If you don't have others lined up before hand you may get shot down for lack of support from others who may even feel the same way as you but because they were not forwarned and prepared to support you won't speak up. Surprising what can be solved if many people voice the same concerns at the same time, avoid sounding like a lone wolf.

take pictures if you have a cell phone that is capable.this reminds me of the time at shooting by myself at the 50 yard pistol range when a guy shows up while I am shooting and walks downrange without saying a word.lambasted him got his plate number and turned him in to the board.I packed up and left too mad to shoot any more that day.

Our club was shut down last fall for about 2 1/2 months partly due to people "bending" the rules. It took quite a bit of negotiation to get it open again and it looked for a while like it would never reopen. I would do all you can to make sure that the rules get obeyed and the situation gets taken care of.

You mean the kind of friends that take off to your back, and fly over your head without your knowledge until it is too late?

I don't think I need those kind of friends.

And an unsafe situation IS and unfriendly situation.

I agree the first step is to talk, but even confronting them might make them your enemy. So I always feel it is safest to gather evidence.

I personally feel this is a situation where the problem must be fixed, even if it does sever a relationship. Safety is no joking matter. You only have one life, one set of eyes, one set of legs, one set of hands. If you lose them, they are gone and your life if you still have it will be change forever.

Personally, if I was in that situation, I would document it, turn them in to AMA and find a new field to fly at.

I personally think what was described goes way beyond bending the rules, and borders on reckless endangerment.

Hi!
If you follow the rules every time they become so easy to follow that you don't think about them!
I take the frequency peg even when I'm alone at the field. It becomes a habit of doing so.
And saying " I start".... and "I land"when I about to start and land is so easy!

If we want to be reconned with as " proffessionals" ...we better act professionaly.

Depending on one's location, that's easy to say but perhaps hard to do. I fly with the same bunch of guys day in and day out. We do get pretty relaxed when it's just us at the field. There are people I implicitly trust, and I trust their judgment. Flying is a social thing as much as anything, and I doubt that the situation described here is very different. Sometimes people need to be made aware that they're making others uncomfortable.

Give them a chance to change their behavior before burning bridges. Being part of a club or a group is a social activity, and we shouldn't forget that. There are ways to deal with the situation that don't involve collecting evidence, making accusations, alerting authorities, and severing ties after making a mess. The goal is to clean things up, not to tear things down.

I understand what you are saying, and in most circumstance I would agree 100% with you, but safety is not an issue where we can afford to compromise for the sake of not hurting someone's feelings. I say document because it MIGHT come to a point where you need it.

Of course the first step is alway diplomacy, but there are some who won't respond to diplomacy because they have been there so long they feel like they own the place. For these people the ONLY action they will take is one in response to a documented infraction of the rules.

My biggest gripe is that an AMA board member should NEVER be relaxed in regards to the rules. They are in a promenant position to be a leader of our hobby, and if they think the safety rules are a joke that should only be followed at certain times they should be stripped of their position. No warnings, no discussion, and no appologies. I guess that is what upsets me the most, a leader of our hobby is taking serious safety risks with someone else's life and does not even realise what they are doing wrong if it is happening over and over again.

My question is, "What would the AMA Board Member do if he was the one on the flight line, and the original poster was the one who took off from the pitts and almost took his head off?"

Would it be a simple, please don't do that?

Would it be a banning from the club?

Would it be a revocation of his membership from the AMA?

Would he just laugh and not care?