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AMA question

Old 04-10-2007, 05:11 PM
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ABELL
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Default AMA question

At our local small rural field where we fly, well it is not that small, the runway is 2200 x 80, the owner is having it qualified as a FCC landing strip for light aircraft. Does this mean we will have to halt the R/C flying? The owner says he would like for us to continue to fly there. We are all AMA members and would like to continue flying there but not in violation of AMA. All I have been able to come up with is the over 400' within 3 mile rule. I understand you can do this with airport operater permission. Since the owner would be the airport operater and we have his permission would we be in violation of AMA rules?
Old 04-10-2007, 05:29 PM
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Lomcevak Duck
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Default RE: AMA question

the owner is having it qualified as a FCC landing strip for light aircraft
I believe you mean FAA. The FCC does not control airports or aircraft operation.

Either way, I know there used to be some big events at full scale airports, but I believe they were halted for some reason or another (someone correct me, I'm thinking of the Superman Jet Rally in FL) I don't know if it's FAA regulations change or just that airport.

-Steve
Old 04-10-2007, 05:31 PM
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Default RE: AMA question

There are AMA guidelines for operating R/C in conjunction with full scale planes. I won't try to quote them all from memory, instead I suggest that you do some research on the AMA site. I know one significant piece of what's needed is that you have a spotter on duty when anyone is flying. This person will watch for full scale aircraft. Whenever a full scale aircraft is going to use the runway, all R/C planes should immediately land.
Old 04-10-2007, 05:42 PM
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ABELL
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Default RE: AMA question

Sorry guys , yes I meant FAA. I guess I was thinking communications at the time
Old 04-10-2007, 05:50 PM
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masonman
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Default RE: AMA question

Big planes an model planes don't mix. I wouldn't want to fly my toys around big ones....
Old 04-10-2007, 06:57 PM
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Jim Thomerson
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Default RE: AMA question

I have seen, at a distance, RC operation at a field for ultralights. The RC guys either land or go way off the flight path when an ultralite is landing or taking off. I haven't observed the operation closely, but I would guess there is a spotter.
Old 04-10-2007, 07:14 PM
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ABELL
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Default RE: AMA question

Ultra lights and powered parachutes are what we are dealing with here. The owner and maybe a couple of other guys are all that use that runway. The flying conditions are not going to change . It's just that now it will be recognized by the FAA as an airport. We have been flying there a while and have had no problems yet. When we see another aircraft we get on the ground and out of the way. Sometimes Doc will land and chat awhile, most times he just waves and keeps going. It is not a problem to fly with them. Since the fellowship is 75% of the fun we don't fly alone and a spotter is on hand. I have been on the AMA site for the last couple of hours and haven't found anything other than having permission from the airport operater and a spotter on hand when closer than 3 miles to an airport and under aproximately 400 ft from ground
Old 04-10-2007, 07:19 PM
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masonman
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Default RE: AMA question

I could live with ultra lites. Just think your all set up on your final with your giant p51 an rite in behind you number two for landing is a beechcraft baron 58 comeing down on your six. That would freak me out spotter or not. I hate to say it but i would be a terable spotter, cause i couldn't stop drewing at all the models on the ground
Old 04-10-2007, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: AMA question

A Barron on 2200 feet, I want to watch that anyway. It can be done but snug.

As long as the field isn't under positive control (control tower) and you have the owners permission you should be fine legally. Obviously exercise great care when anything is sharing the airspace with your planes.
Old 04-11-2007, 05:44 AM
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Dr1Driver
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Default RE: AMA question

It's a potentially dangerous situation. Big planes and small planes don't mix well. The R/C pilots MUST avoid full size planes at all costs. The full size pilot MUST be aware that there are model planes in the vicinity. If you think your plane is hard to see, try looking down at it amid the ground clutter from a full size moving at 100 mph. The only possible way I'd continue to fly there is to ALWAYS have a spotter, and possibly an aircraft radio scanner to listen in on the pilot's intentions. Smoke bombs to signal "airspace/runway clear" would be a help, too.

Dr.1
Old 04-11-2007, 06:56 AM
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Default RE: AMA question

Have you checked with AMA for the input?

I used to hangar my ultralight out of an FAA listed airport called [link=http://www.airnav.com/airport/78I]Pam's Place[/link] and there is an RC club that flies out of there too. I don't know if they are AMA sanctioned though.

I once landed during an RC flyin and had no problems. They were courteous, several landed their planes, and one just flew in a different direction. I could easily see the planes and although I radioed my intentions I doubt they monitored the frequency so they must have been using a spotter. Or, they heard me approaching.

If I'm flying my RC planes at a GA airport I think I would notice an approaching plane and be able to land in plenty of time.
Old 04-11-2007, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: AMA question

It is NOT an impossible situation. I dont agree with the other when they say they do not mix. Where I learned how to fly we shared the small airport (1 active runway) with small aircraft traffic, and para jumpers. and at the NE corner of our field was a kids soccer field.
It was definately cramped, but possible. We had strict guidelines for flying, and they were enforced. However, I will agree with what some people said in that big airplanes will ALWAYS have the right of way. Safety should always come first.
Josh

Old 04-11-2007, 07:24 AM
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Primodus
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Default RE: AMA question

As one of the locals at this field, I would liek to add some insight to give a better picture of our setup. The runway, as explained by ABELL is very large. Other important factors for consideration are the extremely generous approaches and clear view of airspace in all directions. Approaches for the full sizers are at least 1/2 mile from any obstruction. Far more that any RCer could ask for. As for airspace, well, we are in the middle of a VERY large hay field. It really is a RC flyer's dream field. I did some checking into the FAA regs and since it is registered as a private field, the owner has the right to make the rules. Given the rural location and limited contact with full-size aircraft, it is my firm belief that there will not be any problems. As ABELL mentioned, we always have a spotter along and are quick to clear the airspace when a potential "lander" is in sight. I do like Dr1Driver's idea of having a radio to listen for pilot intentions.
Old 04-11-2007, 03:20 PM
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ABELL
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Default RE: AMA question

I have sent some E-mails to AMA and hope to get a response soon. There is nothing unsafe in how we fly here I just want to be sure we are legal
ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

There are AMA guidelines for operating R/C in conjunction with full scale planes. I won't try to quote them all from memory, instead I suggest that you do some research on the AMA site. I know one significant piece of what's needed is that you have a spotter on duty when anyone is flying. This person will watch for full scale aircraft. Whenever a full scale aircraft is going to use the runway, all R/C planes should immediately land.
Old 04-11-2007, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: AMA question

While I was stationed at Fort Knox, I had permission to use the airfield there for my RC flying on weekends when the tower was closed. I'd have had to keep a radio with me, and base ops would have let me know about any potential traffic. At that point I'd have had to land. There were a couple of closed runways that I could have easily used and been far out of the way.

I never did take advantage of it. There wasn't anyone to fly with, and it's not as though I could have invited anyone who didn't work on the airfield. Though I had permission and it would have otherwise been a great flying site, I decided that some of the potential risks just weren't worth the enjoyment. I'm not a person who generally enjoys flying alone, anyway.

I'd checked out a couple of the local clubs, neither of which impressed me in the least. I went four years without flying, which in retrospect I sort of regret.
Old 04-11-2007, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: AMA question


ORIGINAL: Lomcevak Duck

the owner is having it qualified as a FCC landing strip for light aircraft
I believe you mean FAA. The FCC does not control airports or aircraft operation.

Either way, I know there used to be some big events at full scale airports, but I believe they were halted for some reason or another (someone correct me, I'm thinking of the Superman Jet Rally in FL) I don't know if it's FAA regulations change or just that airport.

-Steve
Florida Jets, and Top Gun are both held at Lakeland Linder Airport. It does require some special handling, but it can be done, and is being done.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1
Old 04-13-2007, 06:09 PM
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ABELL
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Default RE: AMA question

Just an update - After e-mailing AMA I've received a response from a Ilona Maine which states that there are quite a few AMA Chartered Clubs that utilize full-scale air strips for model operation. For saftey always utilize spotter and give the full-scale aircraft the right-of-way while staying below 400' from the surface. He also sent an Advisory Circular from DOT/FAA on Model Aircraft Operating Standards. There guidlines are pretty much a carbon copy of AMA's
Old 04-13-2007, 07:37 PM
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Default RE: AMA question

A 2000' runway sounds to be only about the right size for ultralites. One of the local fields here is own by a retired gentleman. He owns and operated ultra lites off of the field as well. We have special rules for pilots that govern their location on the field to make sure they are within view from the air. The ultra lite pilots make a circle of the field to warn us of a landing and then we get our planes down for them to land.
Old 04-14-2007, 03:01 PM
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Default RE: AMA question

Ive flown off quite a few full scale airports during contests. Never had a problem and it would not be a violation of the AMA rules either. There are quite a few model airplane clubs that use full scale runways. Mind you these are not busy airports by any means. you should not worry about the 400 foot altitude. The important thing to remember is the full scale planes always get the right of way. NO EXCEPTIONS. Another one of the clubs i used to fly at had a small private airport across the street and the owner was not to happy with us flying there and would make low passes directly over our runway. But after about a year he figured that we always kept an eye open for him there has been no times at all in the last few years he's flown over the runway. Just watch out for those powered parachutes. They are quiet and will appear from behind the trees and are they slow. So slow in fact that just about any 40 size trainer at idle is probably three times as fast. you have to give them a wide berth.

I say go right ahead and use it. As long as you have permission. The people flying full scale planes know your there and the the guys flying model planes know there there. See one big happy family.

Dennis
Old 04-14-2007, 04:50 PM
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ABELL
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Default RE: AMA question

The owner is the only guy to use the strip to date. The approaches from any direction are so long it's impossible to miss him. He always does a left hand pattern when landing, so when we see him do a left turn that's our que to get out of the way. His hanger is a couple of miles away at one of his hay fieds so we don't see much of him unless he drops by to chat or wants to shoot a touch and go in one of the ultra lights. He has a single seater and a double seater in both ultra lights and powered parachute.
Old 04-14-2007, 06:02 PM
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Default RE: AMA question


ORIGINAL: Sneasle

A 2000' runway sounds to be only about the right size for ultralites. One of the local fields here is own by a retired gentleman. He owns and operated ultra lites off of the field as well. We have special rules for pilots that govern their location on the field to make sure they are within view from the air. The ultra lite pilots make a circle of the field to warn us of a landing and then we get our planes down for them to land.
There are a lot of single engine full scale aiplanes that are perfectly comfortable on a 2000 ft runway, and even some multi-engines.
A DeHaviland DHC-6, a twin turbo-prop needs less than 200 feet (repeat 200 feet) to takeoff or land when if full STOL mode and at gross weight of 12,500 pounds. I have almost 2000 hours flying this model, I know.
Old 04-15-2007, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: AMA question

Yes contests and special events can and are held at full scale airports, the last one I was at was 05 Ralley of the Giants. Sections of the airport will close. There will be NOTAMS issued to the full scale guys and off we go.
However this is a bit different. I remember something like this was posted a year or so ago due to the problem of an RC'er hitting a paraglider. there was lots of room there too.
If there is a problem the RC'er will lose, and will wind up in court.
Do yourself a favor find somewhere else to fly. Better to error on the side of safety, than to kill a paraglider that wasnt where he said he would be(like behind you).

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