hi guys

im getting to the stage where im really starting to throw my trainer around the sky, i can do inverted circuits, rolls, loops, outside loops, getting the hang of stall turns and cuban 8's (it doesnt seem to like knife edges though) but whilst watching a video i saw the aeroplane slow down almost to a tall and then do little flat spins whilst falling (which i was told is called a falling leaf)

but:

A: will my trainer be able to do that

B: how do i perform it

It's not likely that your trainer will do it. I have done them, but with a Brio 10 electric airplane with large control surfaces and 3D throws. It's actually easy to do, just dive alternating up and down, pegging the gimbals to the top and bottom each time. Let the tail swing around along the lateral axis.

I found this searching for "Falling Leaf" on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g467q7NbqJ4

It seems that 3D fliers have adopted the name "falling leaf" for something that is not the traditional falling leaf that originated during World War I as a flight training exercise. In this exercise, pilots intentionally stalled the aircraft and forced a series of incipient spins to the right and left. The aircraft descends as it rocks back and forth, much as a leaf does falling to the ground.
Any aircaraft capable of spinning should be able to perform a falling leaf as described, however it takes a lot of practice to get the timing right in order to stop the wing drop in each direction equally.

Quote from RAF Flying Training Manual Part 1 Flying Instruction AP.129 1931:

"Pull the aeroplane into its lowest possible stalling glide by holding the control column well back,then use full rudder and aileron together. Immediately the aeroplane banks over and tries to spin,use hard opposite rudder and aileron to check it and to force it over the other way. If done at low altitudes care should be taken not to stop the engine".

you gotta love that last sentence.

stop the engine? [&:]

the youtube video looks different than what i was thinking of,

the aircraft slowed down to almost a stall and then started a flat spin, anyone know what thats called?

A flat spin?

Brad

Yep -- that's what I call a flat spin. Sometimes, depending on the manuver, I'll call it an inverted flat spin. [X(]

A flat spin by any other name...........

Ken

... i need stronger coffee...

how do i do that then? just throttle back, full rudder and give it a bit of throttle to swing the tail around?

To accomplish a flat spin, the CG needs to be almost directly under the center of lift. Most trainers are not set up this way. The plane will spin, but with the nose down. A spin is a spin, and is a stall maneuver. To enter the spin, slow the plane down by reducing throttle and adding up elevator. Eventually one wing tip will stall and that wingtip will drop. This marks the beginning of the spin. Throw full rudder toward the direction of the stalled wingtip. This puts the stalled wing in the center of the spin and ensures that the wing remains stalled. As you hold up elevator, you can try adding some throttle to get enough air over the elevator to raise the nose, flattening the spin. If the cg and center of lift are coincident, the plane will tend to flatten out on its own.

To exit the spin, release the elevator and rudder, and add throttle. You may need to push the nose down a little. Gain airspeed and fly out.

Many trainers, like the LT-40 and the Nexstar are nearly impossible to put into a good spin. I have a SPAD Debonair that I could get into a flat spin, then I put a slightly larger wing on it, and it won't flat spin at all.

Brad

I wouls say that it's time to get rid of that trainer and get yourself a real airplane so you can start doing some of that fancy stuff!

well this Yamamoto is not exactly the best of trainers, its pretty heavy, 56" wingspan on a .40 MDS with a 10x6 prop! :O this thing MOVES but i managed to learn without crashing (much), i can throw it around pretty well but its a matter of getting the technique i guess

You are starting to cross into the 3d world.

You will need plane specifically designed 3d plane if you want to progress in it. 3d planes are always flying very slow though so you arn't going to be flying super fast.

A Yamamoto will flat spin. [Sort of.]

Move the CG back until it is just controlable in pitch at the end of the flight. Get max rudder movement and max up elevator movement. 45 deree minimum on both. You WILL NEED RATES AND EXPO !

Enter a spin as normal. Feed in FULL power and while holding full up and full rudder feed in some opposite aileron. It is likely to be easier to do in one direction.

But as everyone else is saying if you want to do 3D get a 3D plane. A Magic or a Cougar is a good start but profiles are best IMHO.

Just sold my Moris Hobbies Sledge which would do an inverted climbing flat spin.