Nexstar "running in" engine
08-25-2007 | 05:23 PM
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From: saskatoon, SK, CANADA
Nexstar "running in" engine
Well im taking the plunge, I get my Nexstar on Tuesday!!
I have download all the manuals for the Nexstar and have been reading them over, But I have a question hopefully someone can answer.
The engine Manual says to run in the engine, But the guy at the hobby shop said the the engine is all ready run in from the factory (Im getting the RTF model). so do I have to run in the engine? if so How?
Thanks for any answers!
Justin
I have download all the manuals for the Nexstar and have been reading them over, But I have a question hopefully someone can answer.
The engine Manual says to run in the engine, But the guy at the hobby shop said the the engine is all ready run in from the factory (Im getting the RTF model). so do I have to run in the engine? if so How?
Thanks for any answers!
Justin
08-25-2007 | 05:35 PM
#2
RCU Forum Manager/Admin
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RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
These engines are not "broke in" at the factory. They are simply preset, meaning that the needles have been set at the factory. You can find the run-in procedure in the manual for this engine. [link=http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/hcaa17-engine-manual.pdf]OS 46 FXi manual[/link]
Here the procedure cut from the manual:
Hope this helps
Ken
Here the procedure cut from the manual:
RUNNING-IN (“Breaking-Inâ€)
All internal-combustion engines benefit
from extra care when they are run for the
first few times known as running-in or
breaking-in.
This allows the working parts to mate together
under load at operating temperature.
Therefore, it is vitally important to complete the
break-in before allowing the engine to run
continuously at high speed and before
finalizing carburetor adjustments.
However, because O.S. engines are
produced with the aid of the finest modern
precision machinery and from the best and
most suitable materials, only a short and
simple running-in procedure is called for
and can be carried out with the engine installed in the model.
The process is as follows:
1. Install the engine with the propeller
intended for your model. Open the
needle valve to the advised starling
setting and start the engine. If the
engine stops when the glow plug
battery disconnected, open the needle
valve to the point where the engine
does not stop. Run the engine for one
minute with the throttle fully open, but
with the needle valve adjusted for rich,
slow "four-cycle" operation.
2. Now close the needle valve until the
engine speeds up to "two-cycle"
operation and allow it to run for about
10 seconds, then reopen the needlevalve
to bring the engine back to "four
cycle" operation and run it for another
10 seconds. Repeat this procedure
until the fuel tank is empty.
3. Re-start and adjust the needle-valve so
that the engine just breaks into "twocycle"
from "four-cycle" operation, then
make three or four flights, avoiding
successive "nose-up" flights.
4. During subsequent flights, the needle
valve can be gradually closed to give
more power. However, if the engine
shows signs of running too lean, the
next flight should be set rich. After a
total of ten to fifteen flights, the engine
should run continuously, on its
optimum needle-valve setting, without
loss of power as it warms up.
5. After the completion of the running-in
adjust the carburetor at optimum setting
referring to “MIXTURE CONTROL
VALVE ADJUSTMENT†section and
“SUBSEQUENT READJUSTMENTâ€
section.
All internal-combustion engines benefit
from extra care when they are run for the
first few times known as running-in or
breaking-in.
This allows the working parts to mate together
under load at operating temperature.
Therefore, it is vitally important to complete the
break-in before allowing the engine to run
continuously at high speed and before
finalizing carburetor adjustments.
However, because O.S. engines are
produced with the aid of the finest modern
precision machinery and from the best and
most suitable materials, only a short and
simple running-in procedure is called for
and can be carried out with the engine installed in the model.
The process is as follows:
1. Install the engine with the propeller
intended for your model. Open the
needle valve to the advised starling
setting and start the engine. If the
engine stops when the glow plug
battery disconnected, open the needle
valve to the point where the engine
does not stop. Run the engine for one
minute with the throttle fully open, but
with the needle valve adjusted for rich,
slow "four-cycle" operation.
2. Now close the needle valve until the
engine speeds up to "two-cycle"
operation and allow it to run for about
10 seconds, then reopen the needlevalve
to bring the engine back to "four
cycle" operation and run it for another
10 seconds. Repeat this procedure
until the fuel tank is empty.
3. Re-start and adjust the needle-valve so
that the engine just breaks into "twocycle"
from "four-cycle" operation, then
make three or four flights, avoiding
successive "nose-up" flights.
4. During subsequent flights, the needle
valve can be gradually closed to give
more power. However, if the engine
shows signs of running too lean, the
next flight should be set rich. After a
total of ten to fifteen flights, the engine
should run continuously, on its
optimum needle-valve setting, without
loss of power as it warms up.
5. After the completion of the running-in
adjust the carburetor at optimum setting
referring to “MIXTURE CONTROL
VALVE ADJUSTMENT†section and
“SUBSEQUENT READJUSTMENTâ€
section.
Ken
08-25-2007 | 05:40 PM
#3
My Feedback: (13)
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
Justin, the engine has been through a first run for you so the break in runs are not necessary,make sure you read the engine manual thats included with your plane to make sure you are familliar with all the engine components as well as the new engine run in procedure, the engine is not fully broken in and will need a slightly rich run for between 5-10 flights or so.
you will then need to lean the engine out slightly,you will begin to notice the engine will bog a bit when you throttle up have a instructor help you with proper tuning if your not completely sure of what your doing leaning out your engine too much can dammage it the OS fx you will be getting is a great little engine and with care will last many years.
you will then need to lean the engine out slightly,you will begin to notice the engine will bog a bit when you throttle up have a instructor help you with proper tuning if your not completely sure of what your doing leaning out your engine too much can dammage it the OS fx you will be getting is a great little engine and with care will last many years.
08-25-2007 | 06:00 PM
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From: saskatoon, SK, CANADA
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
Wow, Thanks for the quick reply!, RCKen I know that the engine manual says what to bo, but they are asking for a complete mix movment, but the Nexstar RFT has a mixture "limiter" so I was confused by that! Bigtim, Thanks for the reply!
Should I run a few tanks of fuel through it on the rich side before taking it out to the flying club for my first part of training?
Justin
Should I run a few tanks of fuel through it on the rich side before taking it out to the flying club for my first part of training?
Justin
08-25-2007 | 06:09 PM
#5
RCU Forum Manager/Admin
My Feedback: (9)
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
As I said, these engines are not "run in". This is directly from Hobbico's website
Notice it says "factory-set". This is a very common misconception about this plane. Many think this means that they are "broke-in" at the factory, but this is not true. What they do when they assemble the plane is simply start the engine and tune it, this is where they are "factory set". They then shut down the engine and install the needle limiter. What happens is that a lot of people discover that when they start the engine in a different climate than the factory is was set at (changes in humidity, temperature, and elevation) they are unable to adjust the plane because of the limiter. The pilot should remove the limiter and adjust the engine and reinstall the limiter. I recommend that students follow the breakin procedure for the engine as called for in the manual. Remove the limiter and break in the engine. Then set your needle and install the limiter if you wish. IMHO you're better off just removing the limiter and learning to adjust the needle yourself. Murphy's laws on technology state "if you foolproof a system only a fool will use it".
You could start the engine and fly it if you want. but if you want my opinion I'd recommend that the engine be broken in properly. You'll be rewarded with a reliable long lasting engine if you do as the manual calls for. But read through the manuals, or Hobbico's literature and website, and nowhere will you find that the engine is "broken-in" at the factory.
Ken
[ul][*]ed on the popular FX Series engines—famous for superior, long-lasting, low-maintenance power.[*]Consistently quick and easy to start.[*]No tuning necessary—comes factory-set for use.[*]Dual ball bearings offer durability and smooth operation.[*]Special IsoSmooth™ engine mount isolates the airframe and on-board radio gear from potentially damaging vibration.[*]Factory-installed needle valve limiter holds settings within the optimal range, preventing accidental over-adjustment.
[/ul]
[/ul]
You could start the engine and fly it if you want. but if you want my opinion I'd recommend that the engine be broken in properly. You'll be rewarded with a reliable long lasting engine if you do as the manual calls for. But read through the manuals, or Hobbico's literature and website, and nowhere will you find that the engine is "broken-in" at the factory.
Ken
08-25-2007 | 06:28 PM
#6
My Feedback: (13)
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
there is no reference that says you need to go through the OS break in procedure in the planes manual only that the engine should be run on the rich side for the first few flights to fully break the engine in. to do a full OS break in procedure you would need to remove the limiter and follow the steps outlined in the OS manual which involves running in the engine alternating between rich and lean runs at full throttle using the needle to change the fuel mixture at no time does the manual refer to this as being necessary.
08-25-2007 | 07:01 PM
#7
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My Feedback: (9)
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
Look in the engine manual that comes with the plane/engine. You can find it at the link that I listed above. The "run-in" procedure that I posted is copied DIRECTLY from the manual. If you want to look at the engine manual it's listed on page 15. You can run it rich if you like, but I advise all of my students, and beginner's that we help here on RCU, to do the break in procedure. It will give the engine a better chance to get properly broken in which will reward the pilot with a long running reliable engine.
The reason they don't say anything in the manual is because they want to maintain the "quickly ready to fly" sales pitch that they have. Have you noticed that they say that these planes are ready to fly in as little as 20 minutes??? But they don't tell you that they require 16 hours to charge the batteries on the radio in the sales pitch. Same thing with the engine break-in. They don't to add that time into their "ready to fly" time. But when somebody has just laid out close to 400 bucks for a plane you would think they want to keep it in good condition. That's what doing a break-in will do for you. The first 15 minutes of an engine's life is going to dictate how that engine is going to run for the rest of it's flying life. If you immediately put it in a plane and get it in the air, even if you do run it rich, it's still has a load on it and you'll pay for it later on in the life of the engine. But if you give it an easy run for the first 15 minutes or so you'll be rewarded with a long lasting engine. Of course the choice it up to the pilot, but most that I've seen want to protect their equipment.
Ken
The reason they don't say anything in the manual is because they want to maintain the "quickly ready to fly" sales pitch that they have. Have you noticed that they say that these planes are ready to fly in as little as 20 minutes??? But they don't tell you that they require 16 hours to charge the batteries on the radio in the sales pitch. Same thing with the engine break-in. They don't to add that time into their "ready to fly" time. But when somebody has just laid out close to 400 bucks for a plane you would think they want to keep it in good condition. That's what doing a break-in will do for you. The first 15 minutes of an engine's life is going to dictate how that engine is going to run for the rest of it's flying life. If you immediately put it in a plane and get it in the air, even if you do run it rich, it's still has a load on it and you'll pay for it later on in the life of the engine. But if you give it an easy run for the first 15 minutes or so you'll be rewarded with a long lasting engine. Of course the choice it up to the pilot, but most that I've seen want to protect their equipment.
Ken
08-25-2007 | 07:23 PM
#8
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
Listen up bigtim - Ken's right and you're wrong. It's as simple as that. I've exchanged messages with BAX (the OS rep) in the past and he advised just as Ken says. The engines have less than 3 minutes run time on them as delivered. They have been factory started, very roughly tuned and shut down. The limiters are then put on and the engines cleaned and boxed. They need to be broken in properly.
Even if you refuse to believe the obvious truth due to being simply stuborn you will have to admit that it surely won't hurt to follow the proceedure. It doesn't mean running several tanks through on the ground just one, then just run a bit rich for a few flights.
Even if you refuse to believe the obvious truth due to being simply stuborn you will have to admit that it surely won't hurt to follow the proceedure. It doesn't mean running several tanks through on the ground just one, then just run a bit rich for a few flights.
08-25-2007 | 08:26 PM
#10
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
I flew the nexstar for 2 years before selling it to another new pilot, great plane. With a instructor you will do very well.
The plane has a tendency to pull to the right on full throttle take off,you can shim the motor mount out to compensate I think 2 popsicle sticks worked preety good.
Also its a little sensitive on the ground, you can move the pushrod on the steering arm to help that.
Also make sure that the main gear lock in tight, you can also glue if you want.
One other thing its the rtf model dont trust the bolts on the tail, I recommend to epoxy.
But all these things can be checked by your instructor....Have fun its a beautiful plane
The plane has a tendency to pull to the right on full throttle take off,you can shim the motor mount out to compensate I think 2 popsicle sticks worked preety good.
Also its a little sensitive on the ground, you can move the pushrod on the steering arm to help that.
Also make sure that the main gear lock in tight, you can also glue if you want.
One other thing its the rtf model dont trust the bolts on the tail, I recommend to epoxy.
But all these things can be checked by your instructor....Have fun its a beautiful plane
08-25-2007 | 09:19 PM
#11
My Feedback: (13)
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
so I am a bit curious do either one of you guys have a NEXTAR or a OS fxi, if the engine was suposed to go through a full break in then why doesn't the instructions say to do that procedure,ask BAX that question.
I even dug my old manual, out of the pile of manuals I have, to make sure that the recomendation wasn't there.
I do have a NEXTAR that I flew for a couple of years, if its suposed to have a run in procedure then why would a limiter be installed that prevents a suposed proper run in.
I can tell you guys from first hand expierence since all my glow engines I have are OS, 5 OS 4st, and 3OS 2st, engines that all have been through the manual ilistrated break in procedure exept the OS fxi, it runs as well as any of my other engines.
if you chose to recomend to a beginner to deviate from the instructions thats your perogative its not something I do,there is a reason that manuals are written.
one thing I have found when you start to deviate from recomended procedures and somthing goes wrong then a garentee tends to evaporate no matter how right you think you are,but dont tell me I am wrong for giving recomendations that are ilistrated in the manual it,or suggesting it be done by the book book fellas. http://www.hobbiconexstar.com/engine.html says engine is ready to fly
I even dug my old manual, out of the pile of manuals I have, to make sure that the recomendation wasn't there.
I do have a NEXTAR that I flew for a couple of years, if its suposed to have a run in procedure then why would a limiter be installed that prevents a suposed proper run in.
I can tell you guys from first hand expierence since all my glow engines I have are OS, 5 OS 4st, and 3OS 2st, engines that all have been through the manual ilistrated break in procedure exept the OS fxi, it runs as well as any of my other engines.
if you chose to recomend to a beginner to deviate from the instructions thats your perogative its not something I do,there is a reason that manuals are written.
one thing I have found when you start to deviate from recomended procedures and somthing goes wrong then a garentee tends to evaporate no matter how right you think you are,but dont tell me I am wrong for giving recomendations that are ilistrated in the manual it,or suggesting it be done by the book book fellas. http://www.hobbiconexstar.com/engine.html says engine is ready to fly
08-25-2007 | 09:45 PM
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From: Poland,
OH
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
I do have to agree with Ken and Bruce,
The needle valve setting may never work at where you are at the factory setting simply due to climate and altitude difference,
That aside it certainly is not bad advice to do a break in. OS break is only 2 tanks and doesn't take long at all.
The needle valve setting may never work at where you are at the factory setting simply due to climate and altitude difference,
That aside it certainly is not bad advice to do a break in. OS break is only 2 tanks and doesn't take long at all.
08-25-2007 | 10:02 PM
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From: Reading,
PA
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
im not going to touch this argument but i will say that this motor started up PERFECTLY on the first flip on the first try and it is set WAAAY rich from the factory, too rich! it sounded like a 4 stroke on full throttle but once you lean it out and raise the nose and clear the muffler- youre scot free. I had to take off the mixture limiter to get it running right as i think the needles are set to a preset limit. u might want to check into this. where i live is close to sea level and its ALWAYS extremely humid so maybe thats why. i broke her in on the ground as instructed and MY RTF kit said to do the engine break in. it is always advisabe to do this as im not risking as a new pilot a deadstick on a brand new trainer. im happy with the nexstar. it IS a different plane from what ive flown before. 60+ flights and 1 mishap which was a broken wing! i hit stadium lights 30 feet up. JUST BARELY clipped the right wing. the pivot wing mount DID save me from buying a new plane but i bought the arf anyways(only $20 more than just the wing so DUH yea i got the arf) the wing came out and lodged miraculously UNDER the plane as to which she landed on all 3 wheels ON THE BROKEN WINGS. Talk about luck! i thought i had a years supply of toothpicks for sure. but nope- just a wing! this plane stood up to a beating- go figure. had 40+ flights since! no problems. irrpcanada- if you have questions pm me or post here! 
08-25-2007 | 10:21 PM
#14
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
I just ran my Evo .61 today. I pulled the limiter pins and ran it in like an ABC engine for the first tank, then set the high-end and idle mixtures. While they may start and run the engine at the factory, I don't think they do a proper run-in and an ABC will need one tank through it before you can think of flying it. Per the Evo manual, my engine should have already had this first tank through it before I received it. Well, if it did they sure do a heck of a job cleaning the engine - it sure doesn't look that clean after a few runs now, but it does start on the first flip 
.
The just fire it up and fly it is nothing but a marketing tool. If the OS .46 on the NextStar doesn't require a break-in, why does the .46 AX require one? Is there that much difference in the cylinder coating make-up? I'd rather spend the time running that one tank on the ground and know I have an engine that has the initial seating of the parts done correctly. I prefer that my engines last many years.
Hogflyer
.The just fire it up and fly it is nothing but a marketing tool. If the OS .46 on the NextStar doesn't require a break-in, why does the .46 AX require one? Is there that much difference in the cylinder coating make-up? I'd rather spend the time running that one tank on the ground and know I have an engine that has the initial seating of the parts done correctly. I prefer that my engines last many years.
Hogflyer
08-25-2007 | 10:30 PM
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From: Reading,
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RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
why does the manual say to not run the motor on full throttle for long periods until break in but the break in procedure says to run 2 tankfuls under full throttle conditions?? sounds like a chicken or the egg predicament.
08-25-2007 | 10:49 PM
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RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
ORIGINAL: firestone1121
why does the manual say to not run the motor on full throttle for long periods until break in but the break in procedure says to run 2 tankfuls under full throttle conditions?? sounds like a chicken or the egg predicament.
why does the manual say to not run the motor on full throttle for long periods until break in but the break in procedure says to run 2 tankfuls under full throttle conditions?? sounds like a chicken or the egg predicament.
Ken
08-25-2007 | 11:50 PM
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From: Calimesa,
CA
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
Irrpcanada,
Listen to what RCKen says. He is 100% correct. I have a Nexstar, and did the break in per the O.S. manual that comes with the plane. The engine runs great. One thing I would suggest. Do a search on here for Nexstar. You will find all these threads on what you need to do to your Nexstar BEFORE you fly it. For example, remove all of the engine mounting bolts and re-install using lock-tite. Check out the threads. It will save you some headaches, and maybe your plane. Don't get me wrong, the Nexstar is a good plane and a blast to fly. It's just not quite as ready to fly as they say it is.
Have Fun!!!
Listen to what RCKen says. He is 100% correct. I have a Nexstar, and did the break in per the O.S. manual that comes with the plane. The engine runs great. One thing I would suggest. Do a search on here for Nexstar. You will find all these threads on what you need to do to your Nexstar BEFORE you fly it. For example, remove all of the engine mounting bolts and re-install using lock-tite. Check out the threads. It will save you some headaches, and maybe your plane. Don't get me wrong, the Nexstar is a good plane and a blast to fly. It's just not quite as ready to fly as they say it is.
Have Fun!!!
08-26-2007 | 07:46 AM
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RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
mesaflyer youre right- found out the hard way that this plane was 1.5 oz tail heavy! my first takeoff was a nose up and white knuckled! i got it straightened out and actually flew it for three or four flights like this until i had help and a veteran flyer told me something was wrong with the plane. sure enough i bought- er um- invested- in a CG machine and it was way tail heavy. Just because the manual says its balanced at the factory doesnt mean crap. Think of the people building this thing in korea- u think they care about the balance?? were not trying to scare you in this hobby irrcanada- just letting you know that things HAVE to be right or it just wont work right!!
08-26-2007 | 09:05 AM
#20
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RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
ORIGINAL: bruce88123
Listen up bigtim - Ken's right and you're wrong. It's as simple as that. I've exchanged messages with BAX (the OS rep) in the past and he advised just as Ken says. The engines have less than 3 minutes run time on them as delivered. They have been factory started, very roughly tuned and shut down. The limiters are then put on and the engines cleaned and boxed. They need to be broken in properly.
Even if you refuse to believe the obvious truth due to being simply stuborn you will have to admit that it surely won't hurt to follow the proceedure. It doesn't mean running several tanks through on the ground just one, then just run a bit rich for a few flights.
Listen up bigtim - Ken's right and you're wrong. It's as simple as that. I've exchanged messages with BAX (the OS rep) in the past and he advised just as Ken says. The engines have less than 3 minutes run time on them as delivered. They have been factory started, very roughly tuned and shut down. The limiters are then put on and the engines cleaned and boxed. They need to be broken in properly.
Even if you refuse to believe the obvious truth due to being simply stuborn you will have to admit that it surely won't hurt to follow the proceedure. It doesn't mean running several tanks through on the ground just one, then just run a bit rich for a few flights.
This also means the term "factory settings" is some form of Oxymoron.[sm=bananahead.gif] "Well my engine is preset at the factory! " Yeh right! tell that to all of us at 5000ft. I beleive you all in Saskatoon are around 1500ft. Not bad but a minor loss in numbers
08-26-2007 | 09:19 AM
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From: Pooler,
GA
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
I hate to even ask I just finish reading the manual on my GMS 47 that I'm going to put in my Tower trainer. It says that the engine needs to be broken in for 20 to 30 minutes, but it gives no description as to how. What is the best way for the GMS engines to be broken in?
Thanks
chopper man
I just finish reading the manual on my GMS 47 that I'm going to put in my Tower trainer. It says that the engine needs to be broken in for 20 to 30 minutes, but it gives no description as to how. What is the best way for the GMS engines to be broken in?Thanks
chopper man
08-26-2007 | 11:08 AM
#24
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
ORIGINAL: bigtim
so I am a bit curious do either one of you guys have a NEXTAR or a OS fxi, if the engine was suposed to go through a full break in then why doesn't the instructions say to do that procedure,ask BAX that question.
I even dug my old manual, out of the pile of manuals I have, to make sure that the recomendation wasn't there.
I do have a NEXTAR that I flew for a couple of years, if its suposed to have a run in procedure then why would a limiter be installed that prevents a suposed proper run in.
I can tell you guys from first hand expierence since all my glow engines I have are OS, 5 OS 4st, and 3OS 2st, engines that all have been through the manual ilistrated break in procedure exept the OS fxi, it runs as well as any of my other engines.
if you chose to recomend to a beginner to deviate from the instructions thats your perogative its not something I do,there is a reason that manuals are written.
one thing I have found when you start to deviate from recomended procedures and somthing goes wrong then a garentee tends to evaporate no matter how right you think you are,but dont tell me I am wrong for giving recomendations that are ilistrated in the manual it,or suggesting it be done by the book book fellas. http://www.hobbiconexstar.com/engine.html says engine is ready to fly
so I am a bit curious do either one of you guys have a NEXTAR or a OS fxi, if the engine was suposed to go through a full break in then why doesn't the instructions say to do that procedure,ask BAX that question.
I even dug my old manual, out of the pile of manuals I have, to make sure that the recomendation wasn't there.
I do have a NEXTAR that I flew for a couple of years, if its suposed to have a run in procedure then why would a limiter be installed that prevents a suposed proper run in.
I can tell you guys from first hand expierence since all my glow engines I have are OS, 5 OS 4st, and 3OS 2st, engines that all have been through the manual ilistrated break in procedure exept the OS fxi, it runs as well as any of my other engines.
if you chose to recomend to a beginner to deviate from the instructions thats your perogative its not something I do,there is a reason that manuals are written.
one thing I have found when you start to deviate from recomended procedures and somthing goes wrong then a garentee tends to evaporate no matter how right you think you are,but dont tell me I am wrong for giving recomendations that are ilistrated in the manual it,or suggesting it be done by the book book fellas. http://www.hobbiconexstar.com/engine.html says engine is ready to fly
You've been shown the engine manuals above but you apparently only read the parts that you want to. So be it. You're too stuborn to bother talking AT any longer.[sm=thumbs_down.gif]
08-26-2007 | 01:48 PM
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From: saskatoon, SK, CANADA
RE: Nexstar "running in" engine
Sorry for starting a post fight here!, Im just going to do a full breakin, its only 2 tanks and it can't hurt the engine so ill get my instuctor to set the mix to the proper spot when i go to the feild. Thanks to all that replyed.
Justin
Justin
