just a Q about buddy boxes.

are they only/most common in the USA?
IMHO it restricts the radio choices of the newbie as the MUST have the same as the instructor.
they also seem to be unnesesary for a lot of the World and IMHO add nothing to the training and confidence of the learner.

I'm prepared to take some flaming here as IMHO they are a restrictive nusance to the Newb and do not help with training, i much prefer the Ragland technique or a good stable trainer plane and letting the newb control everything with an instructoe close by

Buddy boxes are widely used in the UK too and I much prefer them to either the Raglan "Crowd the trainee" method or the old-fashioned "Pass the box if you're in trouble, whoops too late" method . The reality is that a student can't start flying the entire flight immediately. Taking off and landing are not easy and passing the Tx around terrifies most students I've met. They don't like the idea that no-one is in charge while the Tx is changing hands. It also means that you can't use a Tx tray or neck strap (sounds a bit restrictive to me ).

I wouldn't call buddy boxes particularly restrictive on choice. Our club has buddy boxes available for Futaba/Hitec and JR. That covers the first choice of about 98% of all modellers round here.

Still it just comes down to personal choice. If you don't like 'em, don't use 'em.

Steve

I've recently opened a small hobby shop and have wanted to learn to fly RC airplanes for many years now. When I was younger and lived in Florida, I was not treated very well by several clubs when I asked for help to learn to fly. I recently met up with Mr. Ragland and even before I told him I've been wanting to learn to fly RC, he INSISTED that I fly HIS trainer and ASAP.

I did get some buddy-box training in Florida, (10 minutes of mostly the instrutor flying) but I tell you, Mr. Ragland's method definitely cannot be considered "Crowd the trainee" method. Matter of fact, I landed on my first lesson and he only touched the stick for no more than 3 minutes throughout the 25 minutes solid of me actually knowing that I was controlling the plane, and after than he was just close enough so I could hear him give me verbal instruction. He NEVER got as close as Mr. Lewin would consider crowding.

Once in a great while, if he had to, he would reach over and give the stick a little nudge.

nascarjoe

I've never used a buddy box. When I got into the hobby I did it on my own without knowing anything about the local clubs and without knowing anything about these RC online communities that would've led me down a better road. Well I purchased a Hitec Flash 5X and my eventual instructor used Airtronics gear. So needless to say no buddy cord. I only needed a few lessons before I soloed, but we just used the "pass it back and forth method". It worked fine in my case because I picked up flying quite easy, but for a slow learner I'd be weary.

as an instructor I prefer the buddy box,to me it is faster to save the plane than handing the transmitter from student to instructor,also some times the student will try to save the plane instead of passing the transmitter to the instructor,not only is that a crash, it can be dangerous to other people.

the buddy box is great for teaching take offs and landings... these are the situations were the instructor might need full control immediatly.

one thing that an instructor on the box should realize is that you dont HAVE to take control immediatly. if the student gets in trouble and is high enough, let him try to recover... I have seen instructors take control as soon as the student gets a bit off course or a bit too banked... then the student, after soloing, gets in trouble on their own and cant get out of it.

I also like to get students doing basic aerobatics when they start to get the hang of the pattern.. something like loops and rolls.. this way they get comfortable seeing the plane in unusuall attitudes.

I feel that you should start training recovery techiques as soon as the student is able to learn them, that way when the studend is in trouble they know off the bat what to do.

I have to completely agree with Unstable on this one. At my field the instructors run the gamet from as completely hands off as possible (I lucked out and got that one) to taking control every 3 seconds and flying so high you can barely see the plane. I definitely would suggest the buddy box because if it weren't for that I would have given up long ago. With my instructors hands off approach I have become a lot more comfortable with my plane and I don't "freak out" when something doesn't go as planned. I just slow the throttle down and figure out what needs to be done to fix things before my plane goes back to kit form. Just my opinion.

The simple fact of the matter is: A Buddy Box is a tool.

You can use a pair of pliers to take off several size nuts, but a socket set is much better. True, each socket can only remove one size nut, so it more complicated than a pair of pliers.

Bottom line: Either method works. But why not use the better one if it's available?

I wouldn't instruct without one.

I completely understand that too few have had the experience of learning via the method, I am now being taught (Ragland Technique) and as far as most seem to be concerned, the buddy-box is the best thing since sliced bread, but I've had experience with both methods and found that the RT is far and away the better of the two methods.

I just wish that more people could try both methods so they could make a fair comparison. For example, I safely landed, within 10 minutes, with minimal physical assistance, on my first real lesson. I have seen this instructor hand the tx over to spectators and have them flying very smoothly within 5-10 minutes and not have to take the tx back through out the entire flight. All were allowed to land, again with minimal assistance, meaning they didn't have to hand the tx back the instructor at all. Several times, the instructor didn't even so much as touch the sticks as the student landed. The plane is what they call no more than 2 mistakes high and many times, much lower than that as he gave approach and go around drills. When I was with clubs in Florida, I had never seen any instructor do that with a buddy-box.

As they say, seeing is believing and until I experienced it personally, I too would find it very difficult to believe.

nascarjoe

I'm familiar with buddy box, pass the box, sims etc. However, could someone explain the technique "raglan". With all the reading (RCU and mags), this is the first time I've heard of this method. Yes, I'm a newbie, could you tell ;-)

I learned on the buddy box and would suggest it to anyone and everyone. I was lucky in that, once I got serious about it, I picked it up very quickly and pretty much had mostly verbal input from my instructors. However, there are a few people at my field that are having a great deal of difficulty learning and on a regular basis lose control. In these cases the buddy box has been the only hope of not running an airplane into the pit area. The other method may be a "better" learning technique but it is certainly not safer.

The bottom line is that, in my opinion, for the safety and piece of mind of everyone else at the field, it's just better to be on the box. Even if you don't end up needing it, it's still great insurance. Why risk killing someone if you don't have to?

Jake

I'm teaching the kids to fly and I like to start them by standing in front of me with their thumbs under mine so they can feel and see what is going on. Then we move to the budy box after the first flight. It's been working out very good for us. BTW, I dusted off the old Telemaster and it is still one of the best trainers you can buy. If you ever get a chance to fly on of these, it will put a smile on your face....it's just big and slowwwwww.

Jake, I have to tell you that at first I could not ever understand how the Ragland Technique could possibly be safer than the buddy-box, but after only 5 minutes on the sticks, I am now a believer. I mean such a method had to be totally safe to allow me to land on my first "real" lesson. He does not let the student ever get in a unsafe situation. He makes corrections well before the plane is headed where it shouldn't be headed. He does allow the student a few seconds to make corrections, but with a simple nudge of the stick, he makes certain that nothing bad will happen.

Once again, this method is much safer than the buddy-box. Unfortunately, those who have never seen it in action may not be able to imagine an RC flight instruction could be so fast, easy and safe. Once more, I've seen him hand the tx to spectators and it was like a walk in the park, with no yelling, or tx snatching at all.

nascarjoe

For the first few flights, when it is pretty likely that you're going to put the airplane in a "dangerous" attitude, I think the buddy box is much better than the "pass the radio" bit.

As a recent student, just the thought that the guy was going to knock me down and grab the radio added greatly to the tension.

After the six flight or so, I "pulled the cord" because I was confident enough that I could keep the plane flying enough that there wasn't an ever present sense of danger. When it came time to land, I could do a calm hand off and breath a sign of relief.

Anyway, my thoughts

What How Who When, could someone please give me a quick explanation as to how this technique is done.

I learned without a buddy box from my Dad. My son learned without a buddy box from me. Do I dislike Training boxes? No. I think they're just fine. It's really what the instructor prefers. There are good teachers that use them and good teachers that do not. The most important thing when NOT using a buddy box is to LISTEN to your instuctor CLOSELY. When He/She says "give me the box" DO IT NOW.

Stang,

The Ragland technique is a method of flight instruction that uses neither the buddy box or passing the tx.

Here is a link to Clarence Raglands website, if you go to the bottom you can click on a link that explains the method in detail. He has taught hundreds of people to fly using this method, myself included.

I was never on the buddy box, so I can't honestly compare the two directly, however this method does work. I was able to solo with 4 hours of total instruction, which also included a little time on a heli.

http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors/

Thanks gixxer, but that web address does not work, and I've tried several variations of it.

http://www.kites.org/rc_instructors

On the front page, he explains how he has trained two people to fly and become instructors at the same time!

nascarjoe

Thanks guys
Now I'm just that much more knowledgeable. I have learned to fly on my own with a sim, and still have my first plane. I have 10 successful solo's without any incidents. But if I had to, I would have chosen the buddy box system.

I learned to fly on a buddy box and I just read the Ragland Method, it realy does make sense. It would be real helpful if someone was on a buddy box and you used it just to give the first time pilot a "feel" for the controls. I know the first time I had a radio in my hand I kept rolling the plane in turns because I didn't have the feel for it.

Ok just to throw another Q in to the fray, are budy boxes mostly used by "bigger" clubs?
i learnt by the pass the box method with no probs and this is how all the newbs learn at our club (and most clubs in Aus).

is a budy box more of a comfort for the instructor so as he feels i control of the newb?

When I was learning I felt more comfortable knowing the Instructor was only a second away from recovering the airplane.

I know that's the beauty of the RT, meaning I felt that I was almost always in full control of the plane and there was seldom a time where my instructor had to "recover" or make any dramatic "saves".

There is another thing that convinces me that the RT is the best. I was astonished when he instructed me to look down at the tx while the plane was in the air, but after a few seconds of doing so, and not having to take the tx away or even reach over and assist in any way. I flew like this for a couple of minutes. He said that I flew the best when I couldn't see the plane! Man, that was exciting.

What I learned with this technique was that I could see and feel stick movements at the same time. Because I couldn't see the plane, I made certain that I didn't move the sticks too fast, which is what should be done to fly smoothly. After that, I did indeed fly much smoother. It's an excellent practice drill, but like they say, kids, don't do this at home, we are professionals. What I mean is, unless you are proficient with this teaching technique, I wouldn't advise anyone else to do this. Come to think of it, after the "flying under the hood" drill, I believe that he could train the sight impaired.

nascarjoe