Hi all,

I am new to this game. I have a .40 size trainer, a Chinese made Lan Yu which seems to be a copy of the Hanger-9 alpha 40, and have been flying it for the past month. I have about 20 successful solo flights on the plane, by that I mean take off, basic figure eights and landings, without crashing.
I have just finished building my second model which is a Great Planes Big Stik .40 and I have a couple of questions:

1. How steep is the learning curve between these two models? I realize the Big Stik has a symmetrical airfoil and much less dihedral on the wing than my trainer and I am not sure at what point I should attempt to fly it. I am burning to get it in the air but am very nervous about destroying it!

2. The hobby shop where I purchased the Stik suggested I buy an OS .55 motor for the plane which I did. They said it fits into the bolt pattern for a .40 size model (which it does) and is light enough. I have a nagging suspicion that it is too powerful for this plane which has a suggested motor size of .40-.46. Will I be able to fly it with this motor?

P.S. I did learn to fly with an instructor, wouldn't have been able to do so without him, and he would be on hand when I decide to try the Stik.

Thanks,
Ray

TZflyer,
I would think that as long as you have your instructor there, it should not be a problem. The stik is more of a go where you point it airplane, but it also has some gentle flight characteristics, such as landing speeds. Besides, remember, you don't have to run it wide open all the time. That 55 AX is a heck of a motor, you will be impressed. Enjoy!

Thanks rcluver,

I am just itching to give it a go!

Your gonna wanna throw that trainer in the trash after flying that stick. A Big stick .60 was my second plane after my trainer and its awesome. Flies so nice and easy its almost foulproof. And I think you engine in perfect. I have a .90 super tiger in my .60 stick and love it. I do recommend having an experienced pilot take it on its maiden flight though,just to get in trimmed right and check for its other flying charactoristics. I still have my trainer take my planes up first just to make sure. Your gonna love that plane,just dont crash it! If you do its only going to be because you did something dumb,not because its hard to fly. It'll actually be must easier and mroe forgiving than your trainer. FLY IT!!

....and then make a post about how it was and if you like it or not. I'd like to see what you think.

Ray,

I moved up to the Ugly Stick from my trainer in July. You are gonna love it! You know you are ready to move up when you are able to grease your landings on your trainer. Everyone is right, it goes where you point it. It doesn't come back to a neutral flight when you let go of the sticks. Also, I had the controls set too high when I maiden my stick. Do yourself a favor and make sure the control settings are set up low. You will enjoy flying the stick. You will be able to cruise around the wind so much easier. Landings are hotter than you will be used to. But not a big deal, it floats in , just not quite as much as a flat bottom trainer.

Have fun with the stick. You will not want to fly that flat bottom trainer after flying this bird.

Frank

Ray,
I moved up tp the .40 Ultra Stick for my 3rd plane. I loved it. In fact I liked the way it flew so much that I got the Ultra Stick Light 1.20 soon after. That flew even nicer with a G23 gasser on it.
I agree with everyone here. The stick is a go where you point it plane. If it is setup right, you can do some amazingly quick axial rolls, and it flies upside down just as well as right side up. You'll get there soon enough. Just have your instructor check it out on its maiden flight. It can be a handful trimming it out with those large ailerons.
The main thing is have FUN!!!
You'll like it!

Bob

Thanks for the positive input everyone.

I just landed my trainer in a tree and dinged it up pretty bad. My first big crash - not good for the confidence. A strong cross wind came up as I was coming in and I just didn't have the experience to keep it on line. That should teach me not to fly at 1 pm on a hot summer day in Africa!
Guess that's made my mind up for me. I am going to fly the Stik on Thursday after my instructor sets the trims and then I will post up to let you know how it went.

Ray

My second plane was a Stik. Set it up for the low rates and have at it. I found mine easier to land than the trainer and it had no faults . . . though you have to fly it every bit of the way. That one was lost to a mid-air (* sob *).

I went two seasons flying year-round and weekly through the summer - probably 150 flights - before I switched from my trainer and after "borrowing" a few sportier models to get a feel for them. 20 is still too early to switch to a Stik unless you're on a buddy box or have a fast instructor who can bail you out. Mine have all been tail-draggers; probably a trike would be a bit easier to take-off with.

I always expect to have a Stik style model in my hanger (just assembled a Goldberg Hot Stik and will maiden her this weekend - basically a Stik with more control surfaces. Like the Ultra-Stiks). The Kangke SK-50 is just a Stik with a bit of streamlining and would be a good choice also. Sometimes you want to do and try things that a klunky but spunky little workhorse will handle and shrug off.

THE plane for float and ski flying. They make excellent test beds for trying different engines and control mixes.

Thanks Charlie,

My Stik has the trike landing gear.
I am really unhappy with my chinese built trainer, it was really cheap and the cheap quality shows. The fuselage is skew, the landing gear very flimsy and I already have had a control horn snap and an aileron hinge break. Most of the covering has peeled off and needed to be glued back on. I dont think I want to try and repair the plane, its just not worth it. So I need to decide whether to continue my training on the stik or to purchase another, better quality trainer.
After todays crash I am undecided.
If I were to get another trainer should I go for the Hangar 9 alpha 40? Try with the Stik which I already own? Or is there something better out there.

Ray

RCKen has put together the definitive trainer list at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm

I have flown, built and/or buddied Global RCM 40 Trainers, Sig Kadets (various sizes: LT-40s, Senioritas & Mk IIs), Hobbico Superstar (& Select). If you're building I would say the Sig Kadet Mk II. If you're buying the RCM 40 Trainer (with a Thunder Tiger Pro-46 engine).

I have heard and seen good things about the Hobbico Avistar as a "better flying" trainer. No first hand experience. My RCM 40 did better rolls and steadier inverted than most.

i had a hobbico superstar and i just loved it! it would pull some nice little maneuvers, matter of fact, i have a h9 cessna with a symmetrical airfoil and it won't do the maneuvers that my superstar would no way! the hobbico is a good plane even as a second plane, if i had it all to do over i would definitely stick with the superstar as it is a pretty decent trainer as well as a wonderful second plane considering the aerobatics i had it doing! oh and it will fly inverted all day despite the dihedral!

I would go ahead and fly the Stik. As suggested, keep the control throws low for a while. I help my brother and he felt that his Big Stik 60 was an 'animal' at the low rate setting so we dialed it back a little bit and that made it much easier for him to handle. He's on a buddy box and I have high rates available. As he learns to handle the plane we plan to increase his throws a little at a time.

I had a G.P. Big Stik 40 with an OS 70-II swinging a 13 x 8 prop and that had the best low speed handling of any model I have ever flown. I had flaperons set so I could also raise them as spoilers and I could spot land that with a 5 ft roll out.

THE ADMIRAL hated the markings and thought it looked "evil". ;-)

I'm another pilot who followed a similar path. I trained on a Nexstar and then flew both an Easy Sport 40 (basically a stik with a canopy stuck to the wing) and a Thunder Tiger Tiger Stik .40 once I solo'd.

The biggest difference I found between my trainer and my Easy Sport/Tiger Stik was the elevator authority. Stiks have a lot more elevator control than trainers do; so much so that I had a hard time not putting my Easy Sport into an outside loop when I was first learning to fly inverted.

Your Big Stik will fly better in windy conditions than your trainer did, but will slow down and land as gently as any trainer. It's the perfect choice for a second plane and you should have a lot of fun with it.

As for the quality of your Chinese trainer, well, first trainers are kind of meant to be accidentally crashed into stuff anyway. I think you might be able to find a Thunder Tiger Pegasus, Tiger Trainer, or Easy Trainer to replace your crashed airframe. Thunder Tiger makes high quality ARFs with good hardware, and they enjoy good worldwide distribution as well. A World Models Skyraider Mach I would be a good quality trainer at a fair price, as well.

Good luck with the Big Stik, I'm looking forward to reading about your first flights with your new toy. Remember to take it easy on the throttle for a while! That .55 AX will pull your Big Stik around so fast at full throttle that it will whistle a bit moving through the air.

My Midwest Sweet Stik was my uhh 3rd or 4th plane.. I can't remember what came first.. the Stik or the Telemaster..
I've had it for 20 years, recently did a complete rehab, converted it to tail dragger plus a few mods and recovered it in Fabric.... It's still a blast to fly.

TZflyer,take those trainers........out to the garage......leave them there......and take you stick to the field. I can tell you right now,at your skill level,if you were to fly your trainer 20 flights,then fly your stick 20 flights,you'll have many more crashes flying your trainer.

Heres a short story,lol.....A couple weeks ago,I decided to go buy a bunch of servos and a receiver and put my PT-40 trainer back in the air just because I hadnt flown in for a couple months and I wanted to see how easy it was to fly since I've gotten used to flying my other planes quite well. Figured it would just be a fun,easy,relaxing time.....heck,anyone can fly a dumb trainer right? I will say it was slightly breezy that day,but not bad at all. The first flight I BARELY landed it going diagnal accross the runway. The second flight I cartwheeled it about 4 times accross the ground flipping it right over my instructors bench in the pits! Thank god he wasnt there that day,or I'd of taken out every plane he'd brought that day!


.....my trainer sits in the corner of my garage since after ripping our all its electronics for another plane,lol.

....and I havent crashed another plane since! Well,except for a couple bumps and bruises on my new mustang,but it has issues,lol.

Oh,and fly it with the tricycle gear for now. You can switch it over to a tail dragger later if you want,but you'll probly be happy with it the way it is. When you'll want a tail dragger,you'll likely be ready for an upgraded model anyway.

TZ,

Fly the stick. Keep the control rates low at first as mentioned earlier. Mine flew much like a trainer, except it did not right itself. If you put it in a bank, it stayed there until you righted it yourself.
As for landings, and ease of flight, my son, 12 years old at the time, learned to fly on it.
http://www.rfmac.com/rc/P9120003.JPG
He was soon nailing landings better than I could... [:@]

Mine was a tail dragger. The trike gear tend to handle better on the ground, but in the air the plane doesn't know the difference.
He soon moved up to my Ultra Stick 1.20.
http://www.rfmac.com/rc/images/PA280001.JPG
http://www.rfmac.com/rc/images/PA280003.JPG
He was flying it so I could take a picture...

I was really nervous when I made the transition from trainer to Stick. It turned out that I felt silly being so nervouse, because it flew much better. The controls were more responsive, and if a gust came up that changed the attitude of the plane, I was able to right it easier than I could my trainer.

Go have fun. Isn't that what this sport is all about?

Bob

I think this should tell you something. With only 20 solo flights on your trainer I doubt you are really ready to move up. Before you move up you should be able to wring out that trainer. I'm talking consecutive loops, rolls, unusual attitude recovery, fly it inverted, be able to land it right in front of your self regardless of the winds. A lot of people move up from their trainer too soon and don't realize how much they can learn from their trainer. I'd recommend either rebuilding or replacing your trainer if it has too much damage and fly it. That stick with a .55 on it will be very fast and you'll be behind it before you know it. After you have the experience, and with an instructor for the first couple of flights, you'll love the stick.

sscherin - Your Sweet Stick looks nice. I've had a few Midwest Sweet Stiks and I think they are the best flying of the .40 size Stiks, All these later copies just don't seem to fly as well. If I have the time this winter I just may have to build another one.

Hogflyer

Well, I am going to mow the lawn on the runway - I live on a farm and we have a small airstrip here for the fire fighting planes.
My instructor will be able to join me tomorrow and I will let him take the Stik up nice and high and then hand the controls to me to see how she handles before I attempt anything like take off or landing.
I will post up as soon as she has been in the air.
I am also going to try and fix the trainer, I wont feel so bad if I ding her again.
Thanks for all the help.

Ray

HogFlyer.. Thanks.. It is a great flying plane.. I made a few mods when I rebuilt it this summer.. You might notice that the taper on the ailerons is reversed. they are now 1" wider then stock the the middle of the wing.

2nd mod was a bigger rudder with counter balance.. 3rd was a larger elevator with counter balance. On full throws it'll snap out with just full elevator. It rolls right on it's axis, tight spins upright and inverted.. Great inverted and upright flat spins with easy recovery.
Knife edge has some wicked roll coupling but it can be mixed out.. No pitch coupling and it's got enough rudder that it'll pull up on a KE. I still have the CG forward a bit. It should get better when I move it back to the recommended location..
I also setup Flaperons.. It'll slow down to a crawl with the flaps out and it's still rock solid.. It's been a trike landing gear up until last year.. The only reason for the change was to get some weight off the nose and loose a little drag.
Not necessary unless you want a speed demon. Honestly there are better planes if you feel the need for speed. With that big fat wing it's not breaking any speed records.

I forgot to mention the first time I took the Stik out back in the 80's.. I'd set up the ailerons for every bit of throw I could get. Now at the time all I'd flown was a Fledgling and a Falcon 56.. The Stik was a whole new beast..

It barely survived the first flight.. It rolled so darn quick and stuck where you left it plus with a .45 FSR (the same one still on it) it was a screamer.
I had it up for about 2 wild minutes barley under control when I managed to get it lined up on the runway somehow.. I forced it down hot, chopped the throttle about 2 seconds before the wheels hit, clipped the JZ Zinger prop hard enough to shred it.
Still it landed and was ready to go again that day.. We took half the throw out and it was a nice tame beasty.

In my opinion (whatever that is worth) the Stick makes a good 3rd plane or a 2nd if you want to push it but be careful.
A great 2nd is a semi profile shoulder wing like a Falcon III or an Avistar. You could use the .55 but don't use full throttle till you get a good handle on it..
When you think you got it nailed move the CG back and see what it'll do. You could do this with the Stik too but keep the throws tame at first and get comfortable before kicking it up a notch.

I've had an Avistar and they are a great flying plane.. Lots of fun with the CG moved back and a hot motor up front.

TZ.....you get that stick in the air yet?

No, Jester, it's been raining cats and dogs here for the last few day.
I did spend the time repairing the trainer, she has now got more epoxy on than anything else but everything seems to check out.
I am going into the bush this weekend, my sons birthday, and I will be back on Monday. If the weather plays along the Stik should maiden early next week.
I am really excited but I think I will let my instructor take her up high and then get a feel for how she handles before trying to land or take off.
I must say, I am really impressed with the fit and finish of the Great Planes ARF kit, worlds apart from my cheap trainer where every part had to be modified and forced to fit.

Yeah,you'll certainly want to let you trainer give it is maiden flight,then hand you the controls once he gets it up the second time. Once he hands you control,you'll be amazed at how much of a piece of cake it is to fly. Landing with any unfamiliar plane are always hairy,but once you make your first landing or two,you'll also be amazed at how easy it will seem compared to your trainer. Its just going to take a couple of flights to wear off some the nerves......and thats the hardest part of flying an unfamilar plane!

Okay, I chickened out.

Had my stik completely set up and ready to fly and then started thinking about what she would look like all crumpled up on the runway.
Guess I have answered my own question on whether or not I am ready.
My stik goes back on the wall in my hangar and I have purchased a Phoenix Domino Trainer to fly with this weekend.
Good flying everyone.

Ray