Which is best for coming out of a grass field? Are they about the same? I am a novice with airplanes, but have a lot of experience with helis. I do have a foamy P47 that I fly occasionally. Also, have a new E-Flite Mini Pulse XT that I have never flown because it will not take off out of the grass. I am thinking about the Avistar .40 or .60 . The undercarriage on the .40 that I saw in the LHS looked pretty stout. I want a plane that is relatively "stress free" and easy to fly, but "capable". Thanks for your advice.

There are lots of .40 trainers flying at our club, and we have grass. I like .60 trainers better because I can see them better, but you should have no problems with a .40 size on grass.

By the way, the Hobbico Avistar only comes in .40 size.

I would imagine that both the .40 and .60 size will take off with ease on a grass strip. The .60 might have a better advantage due to possibly having slightly larger wheels. The sturdiness of the gear itself shouldn't be a factor if they are both trainers, wire landing gear is standard equipment with most trainers. Also, trainers aren't usually overpowered so they will equally perform based on motor/plane size. All this aside, any size wheel can be effective in grass fields, but it all depends on how low or high the grass is cut.

Uh oh, I was thinking that the Avistar had a .60. That changes things a little bit. I'll bet I was thinking of the PT60. If the PT60 flies like the PT40 on RealFlight Sim then I won't like it at all. I did like the Nexstar on the sim and figured the Avistar was similar. I also like the big Cessna 182 .60, but that might be a little much for me. As long as I can get out of the grass and it flies easy I won't really care what it is. Thanks.

60's have the advantages of being more visible in the air and handling wind better. The disadvantages are that they use more fuel, cost more, and take up more room in your car. A lot of "older" guys prefer the 60 size trainers simply because they are easier to see. 40 size trainers are plenty big enough for me and handle the grass just fine.

If you are already a heli pilot, then your training might go pretty quickly and you may be looking to move to a sportier plane sooner than most. If this is the case, I would go for a low budget trainer, like the Tower Trainer RTF package. It is an excellent trainer and the gear is all transferable to your next plane. It is cheaper than the Avistar RTF package, but it comes with a ball bearing .40 engine. The Avistar RTF comes with an OS .40LA, which is a great engine, but has less power than a BB engine.

You can also go with an ARF trainer, and buy all of the gear separate, but it won't save you any money.

Good luck

You might consider a compromise.

Get a larger 40 size trainer, and power it with a 60 size motor. Some of the 40 size trainers are actually closer to 60 size bird.

For Example: Sig Kadet LT40, 70" wingspan, Great Planes PT-60, 71" wingspan.

Putting a 40 sized motor in some of these larger "40 size" trainers will limit their performance, and as a result, limit the time you'll be flying them.

Of course, if you can't fit it in your vehicle, to transport it to the field, then you have problems....
Easily solved... get a larger vehicle.

Unless you have to have a new one why not check into any swap meets that might be happening in your area. Trainers can sometimes be had for next to nothing and I have seen complete setups for $100-$125. If your flying off grass try to stay with a good ballbearing 46 on the 40 size planes. All those trainers recommended in the previous posts would work fine.
One of our newer members just showed up with some kind of multiplex trainer from tower that has two different wing dihedral set ups. One for a flat wing and one for a wing with dihedral(sp) and they can be changed back a forth. the plane flys real well.
Fred

Thanks for the info guys this has been very helpful. This is what I was thinking of when I was looking at a .60 (Hobbico Hobbistar 60):
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2306

Don't know anything about the plane other than it looks like the Avistar. With the kit listed above I would still need to buy servos, receiver, battery, etc. Already have a radio and field equip. I thought about going the used route on a trainer but haven't been able to find anything locally.

This is actually a very good idea.. Wish I thought of it..

Along this vein.. Ask around your flying field. More often than not somebody has an old trainer he'd be willing to sell, or knows somebody who might. Some flying fields will have a Post Board, that'll have advertisements for "stuff for sale". And the LHS could have something similar...

The Avistar flies much like the PT40 in the sim, but since it has less dihedral, it's more aerobatic.

The PT40 in the sim is almost IDENTICAL to my daughter's Alpha. However to make it more accurate you must increase the wing lift coefficient in the sim. The real thing floats down by itself, so you must increase the wing lift in the sim to about 140% to mimic the Alpha.

Why don't you like the PT40?

It's a great trainer.

Excellent choice of plane. It is very similar in design to an Avistar.
Add this flight pack http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKYL2&P=0 (select shift so it is compatible with Hitec, Futaba, JR, Airtronics) and the proper crystal http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXN503**&P=M and you'll be well on your way.

I didn't like the PT40 because it seemed overly sensitive to control input. Adding rudder made the plane nose down and roll. Might be the flight model in the sim though.

Sounds like you may be coming in from the 3 channel world.

Rudders are barely used on 4 channel trainers.

Any plane with dihedral will roll and nose down when rudder is applied.

This can be helpful for co-ordinated turns.

But you don't fly the plane with the rudder.
You fly it with the elevator and ailerons.

The PT40 is fairly docile in the sim much like the real thing. I may have turned down the throws a bit to simulate the Alpha.

With the throws turned down and wing lift increased it's a spot on duplicate of the Alpha.

When you move into 3D and aerobatic flight, eliminating all dihedral is a good thing.

Whatever you get, larger diameter wheels will make flying off grass much easier for very few dollars.

I agree about the larger wheels. I like 3.5 inch wheels on most 60 size planes (Trainer, 4*60, Big Stik 60).

Actually I am coming from the >= 6 channel world of helis. I am used to using rudder, all the time. Even when I fly planes I cannot resist using rudder, alot, for coordinated flight and when landing etc. I know alot of people don't bother with it, but it is just habit with me.

Also, I just bought some bigger wheels for my Mini Pulse today. I am going to see if I can get out of the grass, if the weather will cooperate.

this might be late but i land and takeoff my avistar on grass

Heh... you'll have to "de-tune" your proficiency a bit.

Most planes track the turns fairly well so co-ordination attempts are not needed.

Those that do not, tend to be the ones that don't have the roll/pitch tendancy anyway.

You may want to look at a low winger and skip the high wingers as your ramp up time is going to be fairly short.

Consider a Pulse XT, or something similiar, that might hold your attention longer.

Planes like the Pulse are VERY easy to land, but have good aerobatic qualities.

Fwiw, the Hobbistar 60 is a great flying plane, pretty much exactly like an Alpha 60, though the Alpha's 3-blade prop does allow the Alpha to slow down faster on final. The Nextstar really doesn't fly anything like a Hobbistar, the .40 size version of a Hobbistar is probably the SuperStar, which is also a nice flying trainer in the .40 size.

One of the best ways to get off of rough grass is to convert a trainer to a tail dragger and put on big wheels. I have an LT-40 set up that way, and it's a great short/rough field plane. And a little slipping on final will allow you to land it pretty much anywhere with practice. (the other day, we had a roughly 100x30 ft area marked out in the middle of the runway. The LT-40 with an Evolution .45 could take off and land entirely within the box, including roll-out).

Like other guys said here, the 60 size trainers do fly a little better and are easier to see, but there really isn't a huge difference between them and the .40 size ones.

A note on using the rudder, using the rudder when you exit the turn to cancel out adverse yaw will make it easier to exit the turn exactly on the heading you want. It also seems to reduce ballooning up. Most trainers will slip slightly through a turn if you don't enter with some rudder coordination. Then, when you start to roll out, the nose will slide sideways, going "downhill" and over-shooting center. The result is a slight dive and usually turning father than intended. Most guys learn to just exit the turn early to take this in to account, but you'll find that you can start and stop a turn faster and more accuratly if you use that rudder.

I second the Pulse XT. I have one and it almost flies as slow as my trainer.

Oh ya and i have an O.S. 55 in it and it take off in probably 20 to 30 ft.

Thanks everyone for your input. It was very helpful in making my final decision. I ended up getting the Alpha .40. There were two main reasons. First, it was $289 out the door RTF. The only thing I had to buy was some 15% glow fuel. Second, it has very good equipment included for the price. The motor is an Evolution .52, and the radio/electronics are all JR. I haven't flown it yet but I feel good about this decision.

Does anyone know what the power is going to be like with the Evo .52? Is it going to be comparable with the OS .46FX? Thanks.

I have the Alpha .40 and I like it a lot. The engine is an Evolution .45, not a .52 but it has plenty of power. The three blade prop slows it down a lot. After I soloed, I switched to an APC 11x7 prop and the speed and climbing improved dramatically.

I had issues with the strength of the firewall and rear stabilizer joints, but they were easy fixes.

I also had some engine tuning issues, particularly when it got colder. During the summer, it was rock-solid, but when the temp got down into the 30's and 40's, it got finicky. I had to remove the limiter on the high speed needle valve in order to get enough range. It is just a roll pin stuck into the side of the knob. A quick snap and it was gone.

Good luck.


Edit - and the stock wheels are fine for a grass field.....

Hmm, I was wondering about that prop. I'm sure I will end up replacing it. Thanks for the heads-up on the other issues. I will keep an eye out for signs of these problems.