Crashem,

Is it bad advice even if you reduce the normal rates by 40%???

That is what I did at first and it turned my plane into a *****cat. Then I slowly increased the throws as I became more comfortable with it (sorta like a poor mans expo).

While on the surface this may sound like a good idea, the problem with this method is that if you get into a fatal attitude, you may not have the required amount of throw to get out of trouble.

Yes Wildnloose I do think its bad advice. As Minnflyer pointed out you could create a situation where you don't have positive control over the model and it crashes.

I personnally have found the recommended throw rates on the models I have, allways needed to be increased not decreased.


Bottom Line IMHO opinion if you can't handle the model setup with its recommended throws and balance point then that should tell you something about your ability to safely fly it.... I'm sure others may disagree but thats just been my experience I've heard many people give this type of advice to newcommers and I think its misleading. Another piece of advice that I've heard time and time agian inaddition to reducing throws is purposly make the model nose heavy to reduce "snappyness". All these short cuts seam to do is make the learning experience less enjoyable...

Some people can handle a "3rd or 4th" plane as their 2nd most can't.

One other thing Reducing the amount of throw is not the same as expo. Expo changes the amount of throw at a given stick location it doesn't reduce total control throw the way you are talking. It simply makes the surface move more or less for a given input. I would call what you are talking about end point adjustment. This limits or reduces overall control throw.

MinnFlyer, Crashem,

Points well taken, although I totally disagree with you guys on the reduced throws. I didn't just make that up, I learned that trick from some seasoned flyers who reduced the throws so they won't have any surprises on a maiden flight. I just took it a step further (well, 3 flights actually). I call that being cautious.

Crashem,
I know what expo is, that was just my poor attempt at a little humor...

Bottom line everyone......I'm still a newbie, don't listen to me.....now I will digress to the more experienced flyers

btw-I'm still flying my 2nd plane, a Global Freestyle. I fly on hi rates (125% of normal) and land on normal rates. Just love to fly it...

I hate dual rates, expo is a much better option you can set the throws to max and still have it fly like a trainer for landing.

if something goes wrong and you are on high rates you have to start flicking switches when your trying to concentrate.

wildnloose,

Whether you disagree or agree isn't really the point since you are currently flying the plane. But I do think you are attributing your success on reduced control throws when by your own admission you state that you could perform almost any meneaver with your trainer before moving on. This fact alone I believe is most likely the reason for your success congratulations most people don't seem to do that any more its on to plane number 2 before master plane 1 and so on and so forth

Expo (exponential),
I keep hearing that is it good to have it; too bad I don't have it to see for myself, although, I hear a lot of people who do have it complain that they either had too much or too little expo dialed in when they crash. Personally, I fly for fun (read that no competition), and I think having all that fancy stuff takes the fun out of flying (makes you lazy). I really get a kick out of completing a perfect maneuver using only my skills (and a little luck). Mind you, I'm still green...who knows, I may change my mind as I get more experienced.

dual rates,
I am only using dual rates until I get some more stick time landing on hi rates on those windy days (which I just love to fly in), then its only 1 rate for me (I just love the challenge of a perfect landing).

Courious.....if I'm in trouble, the last thing on my mind is flicking switches.

Before we get too far off topic here, looks like "None of the above" has gained a little. I wonder what planes you guys would suggest for a 2nd plane. I like the Global Freestyle (or a plane like it), with the Something Extra, Magic Extra coming in a close second.

I started using expo on my PBF's and have found it invaluable when flying a twithcy plane with big throws, a twitchy plane can still be twitchy even on reduced throws but expo helps calm it down.

as for a second plane, read my other posts

Woodsy,

I read your other posts (Stick, SPAD). I was inquiring those guys who chose "None of the above" for their suggestions (like the Bingo, Brightstar, Extra 230, etc.). I want to know what else (looking for another flyer who wants something different than what most people suggest.)

Also, could you define what you mean by a "twitchy" plane?? I keep hearing this term and want to be sure I know what people are talking about.

Generaly i would call "twitchy" as a plane that has a more rearward CG so it realy snaps in to manouvers, a rearward cg also makes the plane WANT to snap in to things you dont want it to.

build a PBF with full throws and rearward CG then try and fly it without expo

OK, a while ago I voted "none of the above".

For me, the situation has changed a little. My Superstar 60 has been retired after I planted it in two trees. The first tree was while I was under the "supervision" of an instructor (no buddy box) and the second was while I was on my own but before I was certified 'solo'. Both trees were due to bad positioning on landing approach.

I put together the Hobbistar 60 and have one flight on it. The combination of 'tree phobia' and the more advanced nature of the Hobbistar led me to reserve it in lieu of a LT-40 ARF which I put together in a week of evenings.

So, with all this in mind, here is my 'plane' plan':

1st: LT-40 - substitute any lightly loaded flat bottomed trainer
2nd: Hobbistar 60: Heavier, with semi-symmetrical wing and reduced dihedral
3rd: Brightstar: Low wing trainer
4th: SIG SE: low wing sport intermediate

Anyone try the new Midwest's AeroBat? Seems like a nice option - but it is new and probably the word isn't out yet.

Jerry

i like the looks of the super sportster but iv searched these forums and cant find alot about this plane whats the pros and cons to this plane?

One that I haven't seen mentioned and that I feel is a great second plane is the Great Planes Easy Sport. It's sort of a shoulder wing with some dihedral, which is a lot more agile than a trainer but still slows down when you want it to. I also had a GP Stick which is okay as a second plane if you were a very good student on the trainer. I would never recommend the Kaos as a second plane as I have a friend who has one, and after flying for 6 years, I think it would be to hot to handle for your #2 plane.