Good First Plane?
#1
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Chester, VA
I have been interested in getting into this hobby for a long while, and not 'till last night while watching Myth Busters was I compelled to finally get into the hobby.
I've done some research and for the most part the hobby seems sort of expensive. I leave for Parris Island June 11th so I don't have a lot of time to fly. Since that's the case I was thinking this plane here:
http://www.nitroplanes.com/j3pipercub.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/sldieprtf.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/supersonic.html
I would like to spend no more then $75
Are these some good choices? What would you recommend?
Thanks,
aust10n
I've done some research and for the most part the hobby seems sort of expensive. I leave for Parris Island June 11th so I don't have a lot of time to fly. Since that's the case I was thinking this plane here:
http://www.nitroplanes.com/j3pipercub.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/sldieprtf.html
http://www.nitroplanes.com/supersonic.html
I would like to spend no more then $75
Are these some good choices? What would you recommend?
Thanks,
aust10n
#2
The cub would give you something you could start with NOW.... but it's more of a toy.
However, I'd advise you to put that money aside and save up for something better and larger.
This is not a cheap hobby unfortunately.
If you start out too cheap, you'll actually end up spending far more in the long run.
e.g. purchasing a good radio will save you in the long run as the one radio will be good for many planes.
A larger trainer will be easier to control, permit you to fly in winds, give you FULL control ( including aileron elevator and rudder ) etc.
Even with the small planes you will have to invest in additional battery packs, chargers, etc.... so if you HAVE to buy this kind of stuff, why not get something that may work in other planes as well, which puts you into larger battery packs, etc.
Check out the Electricstar at $199.00 it's a great starter setup, though you'll need to spend an additional $100.00 over that to get out and actually fly it.
However, I'd advise you to put that money aside and save up for something better and larger.
This is not a cheap hobby unfortunately.
If you start out too cheap, you'll actually end up spending far more in the long run.
e.g. purchasing a good radio will save you in the long run as the one radio will be good for many planes.
A larger trainer will be easier to control, permit you to fly in winds, give you FULL control ( including aileron elevator and rudder ) etc.
Even with the small planes you will have to invest in additional battery packs, chargers, etc.... so if you HAVE to buy this kind of stuff, why not get something that may work in other planes as well, which puts you into larger battery packs, etc.
Check out the Electricstar at $199.00 it's a great starter setup, though you'll need to spend an additional $100.00 over that to get out and actually fly it.
#3
You're right, the hobby can be pretty expensive. One way it gets expensive is when you spend a chunk of money on a cheapie "beginner" plane that doesn't fly too well and breaks before you really get to enjoy it.
Of the choices you list, one is sold out, one is a glider, and one is a Cub. Of these three, the Cub is probably your best bet. What might be even better, from this same supplier, is this one:
http://www.nitroplanes.com/rtfwiha54el3.html
It's got a longer wingspan, it's a pusher (fewer busted props), and it looks to be sturdier than the cub.
In this price range, you really won't get much more than a toy. If you get up around the $150 range, you can get something a little better, like something from Hobby Zone.
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h..._super_cub.htm
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h...aerobird_3.htm
Good luck flying, and good luck at Parris Island (and beyond).
Of the choices you list, one is sold out, one is a glider, and one is a Cub. Of these three, the Cub is probably your best bet. What might be even better, from this same supplier, is this one:
http://www.nitroplanes.com/rtfwiha54el3.html
It's got a longer wingspan, it's a pusher (fewer busted props), and it looks to be sturdier than the cub.
In this price range, you really won't get much more than a toy. If you get up around the $150 range, you can get something a little better, like something from Hobby Zone.
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h..._super_cub.htm
http://www.hobbyzone.com/rc_planes_h...aerobird_3.htm
Good luck flying, and good luck at Parris Island (and beyond).
#4
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Chester, VA
I have never flew before so I shouldnt start out with something cheap to get the handling and idea down?
I'll keep all the suggestions in mind and look for some more. Thanks for the links.
I'll keep all the suggestions in mind and look for some more. Thanks for the links.
#5
Ken has a great list of starter planes
See: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm
Notice that the Hobbyzone planes are NOT amoung them for good reason.
See: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm
Notice that the Hobbyzone planes are NOT amoung them for good reason.
#6
This may sound funny, but one of the best cheap planes you can buy is the AirHogs Aero Ace Biplane, which you can get at Toys R Us for about $25. They are indestructible, and can be flown in your backyard or a gym. They aren't like flying a 'real' r/c plane, but once you get the hang of them, they can be a lot of fun.
http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=2402681
They can also be found at Target and Walmart
http://www.toysrus.com/product/index...ductId=2402681
They can also be found at Target and Walmart
#7
ORIGINAL: aust10n
I have never flew before so I shouldnt start out with something cheap to get the handling and idea down?
I'll keep all the suggestions in mind and look for some more. Thanks for the links.
I have never flew before so I shouldnt start out with something cheap to get the handling and idea down?
I'll keep all the suggestions in mind and look for some more. Thanks for the links.
The larger trainer planes are actually easier to fly than those small cheapies.
There is a world of difference between the "toy" type planes versus decent RC planes.
Here's a guide: [link=http://www.dc-rc.org/bobsmanuals/Bob%20younts%20Principals%20of%20Flight.PDF]CLICK ME![/link]
Please look over it.
#8
Here's an even better idea. Find out where your nearest local R/C club is and pay a visit to the field on a sunny Sunday afternoon (or even at lunchtime on Wednesday). Talk to some of the old timers that are hanging around, tell them you are interested in flying, and that you are fixing to go into the military in a few months.
I'd bet you that someone will have an old trainer that they will make you a really good deal on, and they will happily teach you how to fly it.
Opjose is absolutely right. The cheap park flyers can be a very frustrating waste of money, and have probably driven more folks from this hobby than they have attracted.
Good luck.
I'd bet you that someone will have an old trainer that they will make you a really good deal on, and they will happily teach you how to fly it.
Opjose is absolutely right. The cheap park flyers can be a very frustrating waste of money, and have probably driven more folks from this hobby than they have attracted.
Good luck.
#9
ORIGINAL: mclina
Here's an even better idea. Find out where your nearest local R/C club is and pay a visit to the field on a sunny Sunday afternoon (or even at lunchtime on Wednesday). Talk to some of the old timers that are hanging around, tell them you are interested in flying, and that you are fixing to go into the military in a few months.
Good luck.
Here's an even better idea. Find out where your nearest local R/C club is and pay a visit to the field on a sunny Sunday afternoon (or even at lunchtime on Wednesday). Talk to some of the old timers that are hanging around, tell them you are interested in flying, and that you are fixing to go into the military in a few months.
Good luck.
Do as he said.
You may find your expenses dramatically cut down this way.
#10
We have a lot of new pilots show up for training night at our clubs who don't own anything. The clubs supply club trainer planes to fly with club fuel and instructor pilots. You can get a good deal of stick time without having to buy anything.
A number of students don't even purchase their first trainer until they're ready to start practicing landings and takeoffs. You can fly the club trainers as a student, but take-offs and landings have to be practiced on your plane and not the club's trainer.
This hobby is so ridiculously fun that a few flights will have you chomping at the bit to get a nice, high quality plane of your own. Goodness knows it's hooked enough of my leisure time and disposable income!
A number of students don't even purchase their first trainer until they're ready to start practicing landings and takeoffs. You can fly the club trainers as a student, but take-offs and landings have to be practiced on your plane and not the club's trainer.
This hobby is so ridiculously fun that a few flights will have you chomping at the bit to get a nice, high quality plane of your own. Goodness knows it's hooked enough of my leisure time and disposable income!
#11
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Chester, VA
I searched for a hobby store and one popped up for my area. I gave them a call and its located in Maryland (I'm in Chesterfield VA). I asked why it says they serve my area and their response was just that they deliver. I did my search in the yellowpages website.
From all the advice it looks like I might be saving up some money for a larger plane.
From all the advice it looks like I might be saving up some money for a larger plane.
#12
Go to a club, you may be able to fly a club trainer until you can get one or maybe buy a used one cheap.
I looked and there are 7 clubs within 25 miles of you including one right in Chesterfield.
Plug in your zip code here and have a look:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx
Here is a link to the Chesterfield club:
http://www.midvarc.com/
I looked and there are 7 clubs within 25 miles of you including one right in Chesterfield.
Plug in your zip code here and have a look:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx
Here is a link to the Chesterfield club:
http://www.midvarc.com/
#13
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Galloway,
NJ
Here is a link to club located in Chesterfield VA
http://www.midvarc.com/
You beat me too it Missle.
http://www.midvarc.com/
You beat me too it Missle.
#14
ORIGINAL: aust10n
I searched for a hobby store and one popped up for my area. I gave them a call and its located in Maryland (I'm in Chesterfield VA). I asked why it says they serve my area and their response was just that they deliver. I did my search in the yellowpages website.
From all the advice it looks like I might be saving up some money for a larger plane.
I searched for a hobby store and one popped up for my area. I gave them a call and its located in Maryland (I'm in Chesterfield VA). I asked why it says they serve my area and their response was just that they deliver. I did my search in the yellowpages website.
From all the advice it looks like I might be saving up some money for a larger plane.
http://www.dc-rc.org
BTW: there are a bunch of electric flyer clubs too.
#16
ORIGINAL: aust10n
Awesome. I appreciate the links. I can't wait to fly one. It seems more exciting to fly a plane then it does to drive a rc car.
Awesome. I appreciate the links. I can't wait to fly one. It seems more exciting to fly a plane then it does to drive a rc car.
Wait till you solo.
I never though my knees would get so weak during my first attempt. You really get pumped up.
And when everyone chears your solo, you're grinning for a couple of weeks afterwards.
Then there are the blasts you'll have a fun-flys, etc.
#17
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Chester, VA
I went searching again and here are the 3 planes I found.
http://www.roguerc.com/catalog/MEGAT...TF-p-5429.html
http://www.roguerc.com/catalog/PARKZ...ic-p-5418.html
http://www.roguerc.com/catalog/PARKZ...ic-p-5423.html
These decent?
http://www.roguerc.com/catalog/MEGAT...TF-p-5429.html
http://www.roguerc.com/catalog/PARKZ...ic-p-5418.html
http://www.roguerc.com/catalog/PARKZ...ic-p-5423.html
These decent?
#18
The Megatech is probably the best for a beginner since it is a full 4 channel training airplane.
Bear in mind that you will still have to purchase additional battery packs.
As with all of the planes you've been looking at these are SMALLER park flyers.
You should really take a look at one of these: [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNVC0**&P=ML]CLICK ME![/link]
Notice that it is almost double in size.
It has a better radio and other components, that can be transferred to another plane should you crash it.
Parts are available. The Electricstar WILL buddy box with almost any other TX... etc.
There is a lot to be said for all of this.
At our field training sessions require a minimum of something like this.
Bear in mind that you will still have to purchase additional battery packs.
As with all of the planes you've been looking at these are SMALLER park flyers.
You should really take a look at one of these: [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXNVC0**&P=ML]CLICK ME![/link]
Notice that it is almost double in size.
It has a better radio and other components, that can be transferred to another plane should you crash it.
Parts are available. The Electricstar WILL buddy box with almost any other TX... etc.
There is a lot to be said for all of this.
At our field training sessions require a minimum of something like this.
#19
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Chester, VA
Thanks for the suggestions. After looking more into this I think I would enjoy starting from scratch and buying my own remote and engines and stuff (as suggested to me before).
Since that is the case are any other planes you all suggested to me come like that?
kind of like this one?
http://www.nitroplanes.com/niarfsutr607.html
Since that is the case are any other planes you all suggested to me come like that?
kind of like this one?
http://www.nitroplanes.com/niarfsutr607.html
#20
Keep shipping and handling costs in mind when you're comparing prices online. Nitromodels.com will charge you around $20 to ship that plane to your house, so the real cost is around $100. Other online resellers like www.omnimodels.com or www.infinitehobbies.com will ship orders $100 or higher for free, so you can spend less on shipping and more on your airplane.
Also, Nitro Models ARFs often come with scant documentation and may not be the best choice for your first assembly project.
You might consider instead something like the Goldberg Eagle 2 available from Omni Models for $109.99 delivered. For an extra $10 or so versus the Nitro Models trainer, you'll get an airframe covered in Ultracote/Oracover instead of shelf-paper type covering. Instead of black decals on the fuselage to simulate windows, the Eagle 2 comes with clear, see-through windows and a pilot figure.
Omni Models also stocks a wide variety of engines that will work well with this trainer. If you order your engine at the same time, you can get it shipped for free as well. Omni Models has a coupon code available right now, 44W38, that will knock $15 off any order of $149 or more in addition to the free shipping.
You could pick the O.S. Max .46 LA ($67.99), the Thunder Tiger GP-42 ($61.99), or the Magnum XLS .46A ($69.99) as three great choices for the Eagle 2 ARF trainer. The O.S. .46 LA and the TT GP-42 are both plain bearing 2-strokes that produce good power and both are famous for being reliable and very easy to tune. The Magnum XLS .46A may require a bit of breaking in and extra tuning, but it's very powerful and a great value for a dual ball-bearing design.
Omni Models also carries the terrific Super Tigre G-40 and G-45 engines, but they're currently out of stock. If you wait to order and they're back in stock, either would be a great choice for the Eagle 2 ARF as well.
Radio systems tend to be a personal choice. Futaba, JR, Airtronics, and Hitec all make very good radio systems at very good price points. Some pilots don't mind spending extra up front to jump right into the new 2.4Ghz spread spectrum radios, but there are some very good computer radios designed around traditional 72Mhz technology as well.
My advise would be to go ahead and spend a few extra dollars and start out with the Spektrum DX6i transmitter and receiver package available for $179.99 and then purchase four Airtronics 94102Z standard servos to go with it. This will give you an advanced spread spectrum computer radio with a 10-model memory. You will be able to grow with the radio for many years to come. At $219.99 for a complete 6-channel 2.4Ghz radio system w/ servos, this is also an outstanding value.
You could instead opt for a 6-channel 72mhz computer radio system complete for around $159.99 to $169.99 from any of the major manufacturers, but you're giving up a lot of technology for $50 or so. You'd be better off starting out with a standard 4-channel 72mhz radio for $119 since you'll like be replacing any 72mhz radio system sooner rather than later.
Hopefully all of this information helps point you in the wrong direction. Nobody wants to spend any more than they have to, but you are in more danger of spending too little than too much when you're first starting out. Quality equipment will last you for many years, but cut rate equipment will need to be replaced far sooner.
Good luck and good shopping!
Also, Nitro Models ARFs often come with scant documentation and may not be the best choice for your first assembly project.
You might consider instead something like the Goldberg Eagle 2 available from Omni Models for $109.99 delivered. For an extra $10 or so versus the Nitro Models trainer, you'll get an airframe covered in Ultracote/Oracover instead of shelf-paper type covering. Instead of black decals on the fuselage to simulate windows, the Eagle 2 comes with clear, see-through windows and a pilot figure.
Omni Models also stocks a wide variety of engines that will work well with this trainer. If you order your engine at the same time, you can get it shipped for free as well. Omni Models has a coupon code available right now, 44W38, that will knock $15 off any order of $149 or more in addition to the free shipping.
You could pick the O.S. Max .46 LA ($67.99), the Thunder Tiger GP-42 ($61.99), or the Magnum XLS .46A ($69.99) as three great choices for the Eagle 2 ARF trainer. The O.S. .46 LA and the TT GP-42 are both plain bearing 2-strokes that produce good power and both are famous for being reliable and very easy to tune. The Magnum XLS .46A may require a bit of breaking in and extra tuning, but it's very powerful and a great value for a dual ball-bearing design.
Omni Models also carries the terrific Super Tigre G-40 and G-45 engines, but they're currently out of stock. If you wait to order and they're back in stock, either would be a great choice for the Eagle 2 ARF as well.
Radio systems tend to be a personal choice. Futaba, JR, Airtronics, and Hitec all make very good radio systems at very good price points. Some pilots don't mind spending extra up front to jump right into the new 2.4Ghz spread spectrum radios, but there are some very good computer radios designed around traditional 72Mhz technology as well.
My advise would be to go ahead and spend a few extra dollars and start out with the Spektrum DX6i transmitter and receiver package available for $179.99 and then purchase four Airtronics 94102Z standard servos to go with it. This will give you an advanced spread spectrum computer radio with a 10-model memory. You will be able to grow with the radio for many years to come. At $219.99 for a complete 6-channel 2.4Ghz radio system w/ servos, this is also an outstanding value.
You could instead opt for a 6-channel 72mhz computer radio system complete for around $159.99 to $169.99 from any of the major manufacturers, but you're giving up a lot of technology for $50 or so. You'd be better off starting out with a standard 4-channel 72mhz radio for $119 since you'll like be replacing any 72mhz radio system sooner rather than later.
Hopefully all of this information helps point you in the wrong direction. Nobody wants to spend any more than they have to, but you are in more danger of spending too little than too much when you're first starting out. Quality equipment will last you for many years, but cut rate equipment will need to be replaced far sooner.
Good luck and good shopping!
#21
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Narrows,
VA
Hello all ~~
It seems there have been a lot of great suggestions out there already. However, I am looking for a back yard flyer and was wondering if anyone would object to the Piper Cub J3 from NP's? I know it really is more of a "toy" but I am just looking for something to piddle around in the yard with. (fairly large yard in town) I would rather go with a 4 channel, conventional style radio, for the additional control and potential later use; but having said that -- I have no flying experience, other than the random Sim here and there. Honestly, I don't even know how much room I would even need to attempt any "stunts"...
So, if anyone has any input I would certainly appreciate it... and maybe even heed it! [sm=bananahead.gif]
Thanks!
It seems there have been a lot of great suggestions out there already. However, I am looking for a back yard flyer and was wondering if anyone would object to the Piper Cub J3 from NP's? I know it really is more of a "toy" but I am just looking for something to piddle around in the yard with. (fairly large yard in town) I would rather go with a 4 channel, conventional style radio, for the additional control and potential later use; but having said that -- I have no flying experience, other than the random Sim here and there. Honestly, I don't even know how much room I would even need to attempt any "stunts"...
So, if anyone has any input I would certainly appreciate it... and maybe even heed it! [sm=bananahead.gif]
Thanks!
#22
If you mean the $69.99 RTF Cub from Exceed R/C, it's probably not a bad choice for attempting to learn backyard flying. I was going to suggest the Parkzone Slo-V RTF instead, but I purchased an Exceed R/C Falcon 40 helicopter from Raidentech for $85 and the whole package turned out to be surprisingly good for the money.
If the video on the Nitro Planes website looks like what you're interested in, I'd say go for it.
You might check Nitro Model's shipping costs versus some of their "reseller" sites like Raidentech and others. I ordered my Falcon 40 from Raidentech because they had the lowest shipping cost.
Good luck and good shopping!
If the video on the Nitro Planes website looks like what you're interested in, I'd say go for it.
You might check Nitro Model's shipping costs versus some of their "reseller" sites like Raidentech and others. I ordered my Falcon 40 from Raidentech because they had the lowest shipping cost.
Good luck and good shopping!
#23
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Narrows,
VA
Thanks for the incite.
The more forums I read, the more I want to get into the hobby...Unfortunately, I have already began creating a wish list. Oddly, each of those are a little more than what I can handle in the back yard, lol. BUT -- I need to learn to fly first...I suppose since I will not be heading to any RC Club fields any time soon, I should stick with a simple foamie that I can putter around with. . . . Once I get a clue, I can begin earning some build experience and start working my way through the ranks!
*** Are the foam 4 Channel Warbirds from Nitro Planes worth thinking about? Excellent selection, and most are DIRT CHEAP! I know they are a far strech from a balsa build; but I keep hearing more and more good things about foam... Perhaps a good second plane? Or maybe a small collection, lol. I love the look of the A-10's and Mustangs for that matter the spitfire isn't bad looking either. Anyone with any experience with these, please offer your opinion! I'm curious about the shipped radio, reliability, *crash rating :-) and so on. -- If there is a thread on them, please feel free to point me in the right direction.
Thanks again!
The more forums I read, the more I want to get into the hobby...Unfortunately, I have already began creating a wish list. Oddly, each of those are a little more than what I can handle in the back yard, lol. BUT -- I need to learn to fly first...I suppose since I will not be heading to any RC Club fields any time soon, I should stick with a simple foamie that I can putter around with. . . . Once I get a clue, I can begin earning some build experience and start working my way through the ranks!
*** Are the foam 4 Channel Warbirds from Nitro Planes worth thinking about? Excellent selection, and most are DIRT CHEAP! I know they are a far strech from a balsa build; but I keep hearing more and more good things about foam... Perhaps a good second plane? Or maybe a small collection, lol. I love the look of the A-10's and Mustangs for that matter the spitfire isn't bad looking either. Anyone with any experience with these, please offer your opinion! I'm curious about the shipped radio, reliability, *crash rating :-) and so on. -- If there is a thread on them, please feel free to point me in the right direction.
Thanks again!
#24
ORIGINAL: Silver Dragon
*** Are the foam 4 Channel Warbirds from Nitro Planes worth thinking about? Excellent selection, and most are DIRT CHEAP! I know they are a far strech from a balsa build; but I keep hearing more and more good things about foam... Perhaps a good second plane? Or maybe a small collection, lol. I love the look of the A-10's and Mustangs for that matter the spitfire isn't bad looking either. Anyone with any experience with these, please offer your opinion! I'm curious about the shipped radio, reliability, *crash rating :-) and so on. -- If there is a thread on them, please feel free to point me in the right direction.
Thanks again![/color]
*** Are the foam 4 Channel Warbirds from Nitro Planes worth thinking about? Excellent selection, and most are DIRT CHEAP! I know they are a far strech from a balsa build; but I keep hearing more and more good things about foam... Perhaps a good second plane? Or maybe a small collection, lol. I love the look of the A-10's and Mustangs for that matter the spitfire isn't bad looking either. Anyone with any experience with these, please offer your opinion! I'm curious about the shipped radio, reliability, *crash rating :-) and so on. -- If there is a thread on them, please feel free to point me in the right direction.
Thanks again![/color]
Newbies are usually most worried about crashing the plane and use that as a criteria for selection.
Unfortunately that is not the way to select a first plane.
You stop crashing planes once you learn to fly well... so you need to learn first. That should be your biggest concern.
Once you do learn how to fly the planes, you can progress onto the foamies, etc.
What you want is an EASY to fly, easy to train on, plane that is fully equipped ( e.g. forget about 3 channel planes ) with all of the controls.
Trainers are specifically built with the neophyte in mind.
Newbies hate how they look unfortunately, because compromises have been made to make them fly well.
But newbies are best advised to overlook trying to obtain a Warbird, or anything that looks like a "real" plane, and stick with the trainers.
There is a great thread which RCKen put up about first plane choices.
Have a look at it.
#25
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Narrows,
VA
ORIGINAL: opjose
You stop crashing planes once you learn to fly well... so you need to learn first. That should be your biggest concern.
You stop crashing planes once you learn to fly well... so you need to learn first. That should be your biggest concern.
...Well, I don't like being faced with reality; but this is perhaps the best reminder on any thread. Thanks Jose -- the bitter reality IS I AM A NEWB -- best to act like it and pick up a plane to LEARN how to fly.
Thank you for saving me "X" amount of dollars as I tossed them into planes I am not ready for!




