Hi all,

What should I be looking out for when I am being trained. What attitude should my instructor have, what type of manuvers will I be doing and learning to obtain my "WINGS"

How long will this take? I used to race Nitro cars, so I have many hours experience with the control in my hand!

Thanks :stupid:

hi DragonLord:
Racing nitro cars might give you nimble fingers which helps... but it's still two dimensions. RC flying is three dimensions and that' the main differences (besides the wind and that strabge thing called gravity tha tends to aim flying objects to rocks and other hard places)
Take it easy for the first training exercises.. fly two or three mistakes high which means enough altitude for you or your instructor to recover the plane safely.
On your first day probably you will be doing a lot of circles and rectangles and approaches towards the landing strip
then you'll progress towards take-off and landing
The tiem requierd will depend on your skills or the ability to gain more skills
Happy Flying

You will indoubtedly get a wide cross section of answers here so I will just offer some common sense. If at all possible stay with one or two instructors. Hopefully they will be competent and qualified. If they are, just listen to what they have to say while at the field, and think about what they have to say in your quiet time. Block out the armchair pilots until you have the ability to know the difference and make your own flying decisions. This hobby is some memory, some mental and some skill. The memory and skill will come from practice, the mental needs to come from you and the think egg :spinnyeye

The fact that you have been running glow engines already is a huge bonus. Getting your engine running properly is a big part of learning, one that most instructors skim over (which results in a beginner having to contend with deadsticks when they land - not a great thing). That plus the fact that you're used to the orientation thing (driving at yourself and not turning the wrong way), is also a good thing.

That being said, flying is considerably different than driving. I taught myself how to fly using a relatively slow parkflyer before moving onto a faster glow trainer. This route worked for me since I was able to "solo" my Avistar on my first time at the sticks, and I flew loops, rolls and even a couple of Immelmans on the second and third flights. I think that the most important attitude that any beginner should have is be honest with yourself. If you need help or practice, ask. Most of the people involved in this hobby are very helpful.

Instructors by and large instruct because they love the hobby. I haven't met one yet who didn't really want to teach someone else how to fly(there are exceptions, I just haven't met one). Most are very competent flyer with years of experience, but they do all have personalities that go along with the teaching. I'd say call a couple of instructors in a club and see if you "hit it off" with any of them. If you do, you'll have your instructor.

Probably the most important thing is to have fun. This is a hobby after all...

Hi Dragonlord,
As an ex full scale flight instructor, and currently an RC flight instructor, I would like to say a few things from my point of view. First, find an instructor that lands well.

Congratulations on you induction to the flying phase of RC. You are going to notice that most of what you have been doing with RC cars will not have much impact in the flying side. You are going to have to re-learn some things about batteries and engine tuning. You don't want to get too lean with the engine for air work.

You will start using BOTH thumbs (I hope) on the radio. Hopefully, your instructor will teach you coordinated flight techniques from the very beginning. With luck, he will start you off by having you learn to taxi, basic straight and level flight, and gentle turns while maintaining level flight. He probably won't let you land by yourself right away.

With the same amount of luck, he will not let you practice areobatic flight for a few lessons yet. He will want you to get used to the feel of the sticks while gently manipulating them, and not bouncing the sticks from stop to stop. Hopefully, you will be using a training cord.

Your instructor should take the time to explain a few basics about aerodynamics so you will understand why a plane responds the way it does. He should be VERY patient and tolerant. He should never repeatedly be hearing you say "I know, I know". Your instructor should understand that all work and no play gets boring quickly, and will sometimes give you break from basic training with fun flying.

You should be patient with your instructor, and not be upset if he wants to fly his own plane once or twice a day. When he does, watch what he does very closely.

A good instructor likes to teach, and therefore wants to teach. This makes for much better training for the student.

Your instructor should call you in advance if he can not be there on your normal flying day. As you should call him when you cannot be there. Basic courtesy is extremely important in this sport/hobby. Know without any doubt the safety rules and regulations for the location at which you fly. When in doubt, ask before doing. DO NOT EVER!!!! turn on your radio when anyone else is present without checking that your frequency is clear, and that it will not conflict with another.

Most of all, your instructor should want both of you to have as good a time as possible, and make the learning process fun. It is and can be. Flying RC is challenging and takes time and effort to become good at it, but it's worth it. My hats off to you for giving this side of RC a try, stick with it. Welcome aboard and enjoy.
Fly to Live, and Live to Fly!!
Silversurfer

There will always be the rare person who learned on their own,but dont try it! For every one who did it ,a thousand smashed up the plane.
A good instructor will also wean you from the common bad habits new fliers will tend to adopt,and instruct you in the safety aspects and etiquette of flying with others.As a club prez and instructor myself I will go to all lengths needed to help a begginer,but I have short patience with the new person who insists they are qualified having learned themselves or with a simulator and dont see why they have to take our wings program test.(safe takeoff and landing,approaches,1 loop,1 roll.horizontal 8,R&L procedure turns)

Dragonlord,
As I stated in my subject I am far from being an instructor but I have driven the cars and flown the planes and believe me they are different.

I am currently into planes and loving every bit of it. Listen to these guys when they tell you cars and planes are different because they are, an instructor is highly recommended. I don't really know how long it took me to solo but I do remember how much fuel I went through during the process and that was a gallon and a half. If you can afford a flight sim they are of some help getting you oriented with the controls and such.

The radios differ as well. I am sure you are used to a pistol grip transmitter in which the planes use the double stick and offer much more channels then the car transmitter does.

One more thing that I would like to point out is that you will most likely be getting into larger engines as time goes by in which also don't require the high maintenance that you are accustomed to on the smaller engines in cars due to the pounding the ground does on them. Don't get me wrong the engines on planes do require maintenance just not as much as the cars do thus meaning more flight time

My plane of choice would be the Avistar as it offers a semi symmetrical wing; a good instructor will most likely want to go over all controls and ground checks on your plane first. You will be trained how to approach your plane when starting "hand grabs and such" (A hand through the prop can be very discomforting) A range check is highly recommended as well.

Well that’s just off the top of my head if I think of anymore I will post it here for you.

Blackie

Join a club. Talk to other club members. The club will have club recognized instructors. Some will be fine if everything goes ok. Some will panic if your engine quits and crash your plane. If possible, try to talk to other new flyers. They will probably be your best source for finding a good instructor. The new flyers will be glad to tell you about the bad ones, or ones that crash if a wind comes up! Try to get out on weekends just to watch. If you see an instructor yelling at his students, avoid him like the plague! There is no excuse for this and you don't need the frustration. Hope this helps, Fast!

It seems every area here is covered, I'd just like to add(if it's not already here)is to watch how your potential instructor conducts himself, in regards to safety(would you feel safe), look over his equipment as best you can to get a feel for how he's handled his own gear. If his gear isn't at least well kept and in good condition/order, that might be a sign of how he handles things. If his equipment seems in good working order, and he has no difficulty with his own planes, then you have potential there.
I'm not saying instructors have or need top of the line gear(ask me how I know), but how they've handled there own gear is clear sign of how they might handle yours. Most of our equipment will last years(literally) when given the proper care and maintence. Your instructor should teach this also. The first step is keeping everything in good working order, without that, what good is anything. Ask this....Does he preflight his planes, and yours? Does he communicate with others at the flightline?, Are the rules of the flying site followed? You can usually get a copy of them, or they are posted. This could tell you something.
He should be thorough in my opinion, each flight starts on the ground. A good instructor will talk to you through the whole flight, as far as what he's doing, what the plane's doing, etc.. communicating in other words.
Remember too, have fun, you should be offered challenges, not beyond your abilities, but after short time, he will know what you can do, even if you don't. He should do this in a fun and easy manner.
Your entering into a very cool hobby/sport, patience is key in it. Keep coming back here, there's probably all total, over 50,000 years of experience between everyone registered on the site, you've come to the right place.

As far as the instructor goes I am sure that should not be a real big issue depending on if you have joined a club if not then yes it could be a big issue. Just ask the other club members who the good instructors are I am sure they would not lead you wrong.

Blackie

Dragonlord,

Lots of good advice already given. But I wanted to give you some more. As far as what manuevers you will need to get your WINGS, that's the perfect question to ask any instructor you are considering to teach you, since he will be the one to certify you ready for SOLO.

Each club has thier own rules for new pilots. Some are basic and some require you to fly up and do a basic figure eight, both directions then land the plane. Remember he is only really teaching you basic flight at this point. The loops, rolls etcc. will come later after you feel more comfortable with the plane.

Above all, do what your instructor says, and never be discouraged if he takes over the plane. Altough he is there to teach, his main goal is safety first.

Try to stay with the same instructor if possible. As far as the instructors attitude? He should be willing to answer your questions and make you feel comfortable. If not, look for another instructor.

You did not mention what type of plane you have. But no matter what type, always have someone check out the plane, before hand.

We had a new person at the field bring in a ARF for flying. A simple pull test revealed he used the wrong CA for gluing the elev hinge. His first flight would have been his last. He was more than grateful for the severe beating he took on his new plane. Never get mad if an instructor asks you to fix something before you go up.

Let me add something here. A few years ago my friend was teaching a guy to fly and he was a nightmare. Listen to your instructor and take the learning curve at the pace he sets for you. This guy after his 3rd flight was constantly asking to land and takeoff before he was ready and he just flat refused to listen to my friend and pace himself. Well my friend has great patience but finally told him to shut up and he finished teaching him and after he had landed and taken off 3 times he unplugged him. He went through about a plane a week just because he wouldn't pace himself, now he flies all right but is still not a good flier. Take your time and listen and learn.

Also try to find one with the same brand radio and use a BUDDY (training) cord!

The main thing you need to look out for in an instructor is him being keen to teach. You don't need the best flier in the club you want the one who is best able to communicate what he knows.

The question you forgot to ask is what your attitude should be. Art covered it fairly well. Listen to your instructor and give him a chance to teach you something. The fact that you have run R/C cars means that you have some useful information but please try to avoid telling your instructor that you already know it all. You'll soon find that even taxying a plane is harder/different to running a car and when it gets off the ground it's even more different.

As for how long it takes, the shortest I've seen personally is solo in 4 flights. Very unusual. The longest is about 5 years. You'll be somewhere in between. Most people seem to manage it in a season (say 1 to 8 months) but rushing to give up your instructor before you're really ready will cause you some serious expense down the road. It's a major cause of crashes .

Have fun

Steve

I was checking training times, engines, trainer brand names and then fuel useage for new students to solo. I discovered that in our club that the fuel useage used during training was remarkably similiar. The amount used for a standard 40 sized trainer like an SIG LT40 or a CG Eagle2 with a standard 40/46 engine worked out to between 3 1/2 gal. and 4 gallons of fuel. Some pilots completed their wings by burning 3 1/2 gallons fuel and almost all the new students passed their wings test before they had burned their 4th gallon of fuel. The few that hadn't passed their wings by then had problems due to poor engine choices or poor trainer plane choices.
Finicky engines or trying to learn on faster more responsive planes such as an Avistar may increase the required training time. This could be handy to know because now you can work out approx. how much your training flights will cost. To complete wings traing at our club basically you will have to be able to start the engine, and get it properly adjusted. You will have to be able to taxi out and do a nice take off. You will then have to be able to demonstrate both left hand and right hand figure eights. Then you will have to demonstrate a smooth controlled loop. Then you will have to cut the throttle to idle, pull the nose of the plane up until it stalls and then do a nice landing from that point without increasing the throttle. This simulates a deadstick landing. Have fun, Fast!

Hello, As for manuevers, what my instuctors wanted to see was figure eights, nice level figure eights till you can do them in your sleep. Don't forget to work on thottle management, and try using the rudder a little ! I think the car experience will help as you might be less likely to get crossed up when the plane is approaching you. good luck

Fastsky I am curious of your reasoning for your statement on the following,

I can understand the finicky engines but I am curious as to why you think the Avistar is not a good choice, at our field its a very popular trainer. As a matter of fact it is the most popular trainer at our field and I have seen numerous students solo on the Avistar. I soloed on the Avistar with a measurement of a 1 1/2 gal fuel and at my age I don't really have the reflects as those younger then I.

Thanks
Blackie

Blackie, yow already know about finicky engines. If the engine is always going deadstick or sputtering, it gets frustrating for both the student and the instructor. The instructor is trying to guess wheather he needs to get the plane back to the runway or if he thinks it will be ok for the remainder of the flight. Bottom line here is the best all around engines for setting up and keep running engines that I have seen are either an OS engine or a Thunder Tiger. Re: Avistar, the plane is a great flyer, responsive, fast and aerobatic. The Avistar is rather small and very light. This means it can easily be overpowered which is the way most sport pilots like it! Most Avistars that seem to show up at our field have a hot 46 engine on the front. This engine on an Avistar makes the plane able to gain speed very quikly and fly fast. These are not the greatest traits for a trainer. The Avistar generally lands hot unless a lot up elevator is put in. New flyers are usually sweating bullets just trying to keep the plane level and lined up for the runway while learning to land. Never mind adding in up elevator to slow the plane down. I have seen a few newbies complete their training just fine with an Avistar. I have also seen many more that were having too much trouble, put the plane aside for their second plane and bought an LT40 to complete their wings training. The plane may work for some but be way too frisky a flyer for others! I have never seen anyone who had trouble getting their wings with an LT40! If the club is using the Avistar as a club trainer then I would guess that the throws have been reduced and a low power engine like an OS 40LA on the front. Using this I can see that it would make a good trainer.

I am one of those that learned to fly on a 'hot' Avistar. MDS .48 installed. I think the issue is that a lot of beginners don't want to learn to fly on a plane that can't power itself through a loop, or battle a 15 mph headwind. I've seen some of the other trainers running on .40s. They're a popular setup among the retired generation of pilots, but most of us in the teens to 30s cut our teeth on video games that required lightning fast response times. It might be a great idea for someone to learn on a milder plane, but if they get bored out of their minds they're not likely to come back for another session.

I went from newbie (with only sim experience) to solo in something like 20+ trainer-cord flights. It took about 2-3 months of visits to the field with my trainer. I am far from a prodigy so I would expect that with the proper level of interest that anyone should be able to do nearly the same (plus or minus 5-10 flights).
Once solo, I don't think anyone under the age of 60 is going to remain happy with a .40LA powered flat-bottom large dihedral trainer for very long. Which means two things: 1) they've just spent $250 and 10+ hours assembly for a plane and engine that they've outgrown in 2 months, and 2) they're looking for a second plane and they're likely to 'over-plane' themselves for a second plane before they're ready for something hot.

In fact, this is what I did despite having the Avistar. I tried to run after learning to crawl, skipping the walking part. Which is my contribution to this thread. WARNING: Do NOT be in a rush to fly the 'hot' planes after you've solo'ed. I stepped up to 3D planes way too fast, and cost myself two very nice planes because of it.
This year I've gone back to a trainer, but I also have the experience to know that if I don't have a hot trainer I will lose interest. This year's plane that I've chosen to continue refining my skills on is a Hobbistar .60 with a .61FX. I witnessed a guy train on this combo last year, and it works out well. It might take a bit more care to learn on, but the size is easier to deal with for newbies, and it allows for a lot of spirited flight once you've soloed.

One last point. You can always throttle back, but you can't add more power to a plane that doesn't have it. Most trainers I've seen end up looking a bit ragged, which means there isn't much chance of selling it for anything near what it cost new. So if you power it with a 'hot' engine, you can always migrate that engine to your second plane and write off the cost of the trainer frame as learning expense. What the heck is someone going to do with a .40LA when they move up? Admittedly it's a cheap engine, but why not spend a few dollars more and have one that can power the next airframe?

I know this thread concerns choice of instructors, but I like to think that I've brought up a few warnings/considerations for those that are training, so I think it's relevant.

Fastsky,

yes most of the Avistar's that show up at our field are equiped with an 40LA as mine was, but as I put more thought into it a trainer is just exactly what the word means "trainer" and thus most likely is placed in the attic real quick no matter what type of plane it is. Even though my plane was an Avistar I quickly grew away from it and grabed my second plane.

Blackie

Blackie, I agree that the Avistar will keep you from getting bored once you have your wings. You made out ok using the Avistar as a trainer. I have 2 students scheduled to train this summer using LT40s that have spent last year trying to train with their Avistar. They tell me that their plane was just too responsive for them to learn on. These aren't older guys either.
NFOSEC, This isn't a case of being afraid to train with a plane that can't power itself through a loop. My LT40 could continuosly loop from level flight at 1/2 throttle and hang onn the prop at 3/4 throttle. The main difference is that it would o it all in a slow relaxed manner compared with smaller faster planes.

Avistar too responsive? Isn't that what dual rates are for? Not having flown an LT40, I wouldn't know the difference but I'm sure it does handle a bit more slowly and land easier as it has only 75% the wing loading of an Avistar. But that makes it a heck of a second step to move to a low-wing tail dragger with the wing load equal to or greater than the Avistar. The LT40 wing loading is somewhat artificially low compared to every other trainer out there. Essentially what you're doing is moving a steep portion of the learning curve to between plane 1 and plane 2 rather than at plane 1. Which sounds like an excellent idea, unless the newbie gets bored with plane 1 before they've mastered all of the basics completely.
And Blackie, I suspect that if you had been running an OS .46 or similar (60%+ more horsepower than the junky little .40LA) the Avistar might have held your interest a bit longer, as well as providing a nicely broken in transplant engine for your second plane.