Nate, you rock! I can't believe I was being so blind to this. I was frustrated by the crooked Dolphin and banged up a perfectly good Decathlon over it. Who am I to say I won't do this to a pattern ship then be even more discouraged?

I don't know but this is what I was thinking. I took so much time and did my best putting it together. I admit I was disappointed from the first flight, and dumped it on the second out of frustration, but since then I've been doing my best to adapt to it. This last mishap really banged up the tail and broke the aluminum motor mount, so it's going to be a week before it's fixed. Will be flying Dolphin in the mean time.

I need to get some sleep and fly my Dolphin.

Well gaRC, you have peaked my interest. I have a Blackhorse (or Phoenix) Decathlon sitting on the table right now (not sure which because I bought it used). I've had it since last year. I am going to pull some radio gear out of one of my other flyers and get it into the air and see what all the cuffuffall is about with this airframe. I just can't imagine it being as hard to fly as some of my others. All my planes in my fleet fly totally differant from one another and that is what keeps me interested. I am going to power mine with an OS 60FP. If that doesn't produce results, I have a 55AX, TH 75 or a Magnum 91 that I could try. But I am quite sure the 60FP will be sufficient. I am not looking for a rocket (I have a couple of those already) I just want it to fly in a scale like manner. I have a few scale planes already so I am quite used to flying on the wing already without having to overpower the airframe. In my honest opinion, there is nothing more pretty to watch than a scale type airplane being flown in a scale like manner.
I will keep you posted of the results...either successful or disasterous

Cheers
Curt

Yeah let me know what you think. I never said it was hard to fly, im just having trouble getting everything set up properly. Im sure its a great scale performer, i just didnt realize scale looks meant scale performance at first. last two flights with 10% i was at 3/4 to 7/8 throttle which is an improvement. Let me know if you end up flying close to WOT most of the time.

It's not A hard plane to fly, it's just different then A stunt plane or A floater like A Cub. My GP kit built had an OS 70 FS and that may have been over kill?? I learned A lot from that plane before I killed it.
GA, if you go over to the Classic Pattern Forum you can find A sticky {I think} on the Kaos and other types of the old pattern planes. Don't ask questions, just read what the guys are saying, think about it for A while then start talking to some of the guys like Rain Dave, really good people with lots of info to share.
You may want to give some of these older style of pattern ships A try, much cheaper and easier to get into.
I still have my old Bridi 60 size Kaos, it's getting rebuilt and covered for the third time.
When I have been having one of those really bad days like Chuck mentioned {yes, we all have them!! }like when I stuffed my newest scratch built Extra, I will not leave the field on A nasty note like that. I fire up my old Kaos and Fly Like the Wind!!!!! I tear giant holes in the sky and impress myself!!
How can you do this you ask:: It's not me, it"s the Kaos, it can't help itself, they just fly.
The only ARF of this plane is the 40 size from Tower but not to worry, the Kaos has grand children, lots and lots of grand children so there are many of these types to choose from.
The Kaos was the pattern Champ in 1970 and for many years after, it is still A good plane for entry level pattern or IMAC if that's all you have. It's grand kids are A better choice but they are out there and not over priced.
I even have an old 120 size Kaos going through A rebuild, that's how much I think of this plane. Give some of the fun fly planes A look too, I still fly A real stupid Hots.
Go take A look at the Classics and give that poor Decathlon A rest, you may want to visit it again down the road.
CHUCK, how was that for some Pearls of Wisdom???

I just went over to Classic Pattern Flying and went into A thread titled, Which Kaos Is This?? It's still on the first page but may be pushed back soon.
Anyway, I opened it and someone posted an address for looking at planes, my goodness, you really need to go look if you like pattern ships. I have to go back there and steel, I mean, get some ideas for covering.
Some nice candy!!!

Thanks graybeard, ill check it out.

Yeah, many of the classic pattern models are real lookers. They do fly quite a bit differently than the modern competition aircraft though.

Nathan that is a great looking model.
Here is a picture of the plane I won my first contest with. It's a wierd looking pattern plane

Joe,
I guess you don't need a pattern plane to compete in sportsman, but you do nees a plane capable of flying precise
and that Yak is pretty good. It won't see another contest as both of my 2 meter planes are complete.

That looks remarkably like the small Quique Yak.

NO NO, It's a wacked out pattern plane. What type of self respecting pattern pilot would fly a
3D plane. [X(]

Pair of planes I had just recovered several years ago, A pair of old Bridi 60 size Kaos. These are what I started to learn pattern flying with then went to the Extras. Nate, sure does look like A QQ or A 1 of 12??

A guy at our field has one with the 55 ax too. I cant remember the prop he runs, but it has more than enough power. It will hold a hover, but cant pull out of it. For what the plane was designed to do, the 55 ax is a good match. Check your fuel, glow plug, and readjust needle settings. If that doesnt get it done, send in the engine to be checked out.

Overbored, I'm with the rest, It resembles Quique's YAK a LOT. I took a look carefully and noticed some differences mainly in the tail section and the cowl. The trim scheme is definitely based on Somenzini's design, right?

Gray Beard I beleve your two beautiful Kaos' are the last of the great Bridi Kaos, the Killer Kaos.

Four of the Pheonix Decathalons have flown locally and all were lost likey from unrealistic purchaser expectations of some sort of super duper scale aerobat and/or a super slow flying floater and it is neither. Two of these airplanes I did the maidens on while they were an OK airplane they are not what the purchasers really wanted or were expecting in each case.

I salvaged the last one from the dumpster and changed it a little into the Champion Lancer, Yes there really were 22 of those ugly things built, a full scale factory bash. I think 19 flights now and it does not fly any better than the Pheonix Decathalon with a couple of 28's but more importantly it does not fly any worse.

John

well gaRCfield, I finally got a chance to fly my Decathlon today with an OS60FP. She is a handfull on the ground but manageable with rudder. I fly off grass and have wheel pants on that I am going to take off. I also flew it without the wing struts. In the air it flew rock solid but did require about 3/4 to full throttle to make it perform. It will fly OK at 1/2 throttle but appears sluggish. Stall turns when using rudder caused a spin every time. Was fun doing these. Knife edges were hard too. It wants to roll over and spin doing these also. As far as landing, it is a very sweet landing aircraft, with a little throttle management, she floats in nicely.
In conclusion, a very pleasant change from the aircraft that I usually fly. Was not overpowered with the OS60FP but flew very scale like which made it enjoyable. Not a second airplane, maybe a 4th.

Now guys... a question. What prop should I be swinging on the old OS60FP? I have a 12x6 APC on it now. Should I drop down to an 11x6 for a few more rpms??? I bought this motor used and am unsure what is the best prop for it. Also is this a bushing or bearing engine?

Thanks
Curt

The 12x6 should be about perfect. It's a bushing engine, by the way.

The 60FP was the budget OS before the LA series. Its a very user friendly reliable engine Not quite as powerful as other OS' in the sixty one size. This mainly because of a smaller venturi to assure good fuel draw for user friendliness.

It is a bushing type engine and has a bleeder carb without a second needle but a bleed screw for low end mixture control.

I would try an 11/7 first.

John

Thanks guys, prop clearance is not an issue on this plane, so I guess I'll just stick to the 12x6APC. I just wasn't sure if the 60FP would benefit from a little more RPM's or not. Being a lower powered bushing engine she probably can't get the RPM's that her bearinged siblings can obtain. The Phoenix Decathlon does fly very well with this motor and I don't think overpowering it would be very beneficial.
The Decathlon does very smooth rolls, loops and inverted flight is a piece of cake. I find that the rudder is extremely effective on this plane and has to be applied very carefully. The tricky ground handling was to be expected with the short coupling. But she lands just about as well as a trainer.

Curt

12x6 is a major load for the FP60

John... so you think an 11x7 or 11x6 would be a better prop choice for the OS.61 FP than the 12x6?? I run all my 46's with the 11x6. The FP does seem to be lugging a bit.

Curt

Yes I think that is to much prop for the FP. The engine needs to breathe just because it is a bushing engine does not mean it is a low RPM engine that is more a function of the cylinder bore/stoke ratio and the porting. Try an 11/7 that should net you a small RPM increase.

I would also buy an APC 12X4 and look at some of the 3-D props if they are in the 12 inch range with an even lower pitch. Prop selection is A trial and error thing until you find the prop YOU like to fly the plane with. I like mine slow with as much torque as I can get out of them. It's an engine/plane/prop combination that you the pilot are happy with.
I also like to over power them just A bit too.
JOHN, I'm rebuilding my old Bridi again and making some changes to it just for PLANE FUN right now. I will post up some photos in A week or two but I have A couple of things on the bench getting covered right now slowing down the Kaos.
Gene

This is exactly what I think! First I found that Phoenix recommends the CG to be a bit far back, and most people move it forward. That helped. Also I found that during these early stages the 55AX is happier with a light prop. I remembered that I had a light prop on the 46AX for quite a few gallons before I switched, and it still took a gallon to get used to the 12". Today I flew with a 12x5 on the Decathlon and found exactly as you did. The plane likes air speed. I think there might be some trimming issues with my plane; it noses out of climbs and dives, so may be something to do with engine thrust. It is a nice change from the Dolphin, flies well upside down, and looks great. Been flying about 3/4 throttle, max throttle to go into a roll or something, and very sluggish at 1/2 throttle. The plane lands wonderfully, and I was having a hard time with take off until I forgot all the tips I read about how to take off with this plane and just flew the thing. I found that holding full down elevator and using left rudder caused the plane to get very squirrely when the tail came up. I had a bunch of nice take offs today, and even a nice touch and go. Overall I'm finally happy with the plane, as it is a nice supplement to the Dolphin, and I'm happy to learn to fly by the wing. I think as I get to know this plane it will perform nearly as expected, especially when the engine gets broken in.

I think a lot of what I experienced had to do with the fact that this is only my second engine, and when I was first learning on the Nexstar I couldn't have known if I had power or if the engine was lagging or anything.

Yup. You can't float the Decathlon around at 1/4 throttle like my Cub or my DragSTAR can. This plane needs air moving over the wings and airframe to make it fly decently (a lot like my F22 Raptor). I don't think overpowering this airframe would have any beneficial results.

She sure is a beautiful looking plane in the air and on the ground. I think I've got a keeper to add to my collection. I still have a weak spot for scale looking and flying planes. The rip snorters are nice for a change but nothing beats flying scale!!

Curt

It wil be nice when ive got that extra fourstroke lying around, 2 stroke doesnt sound right in the decathlon.