OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

new rule at our field today,
A new student with two evenings of instruction was taxiing unsupervised. I was into another students plane and couldn't watch. Well he had his buddy with him and tried to solo without thinking or asking so no one even saw him go down. I and a couple other guys spent hours searching in poison ivy and tick infested thorn patches. We could have been a foot away from his plane and missed it.
however I am wondering now if it didn't just level out and fly off. After all was being rehashed he said he gave up and went hands off after it went visually behind the trees. hmmmm. He also confessed to taking off intentionally. If i am on the buddy box and a crash occurs I will go to great lengths to help rebuild or replace the bird..I have built spads to replace bad wrecks a few times or asked around the club for a donation af an old trainer. I keep them right on schedule with flight training with my LT 40 while repairs are made.

no unsoloed flyer will have control of a moving airplane unless on a buddy box.

Spacemonkey71

Preach it brother!

I'm, unfortunately, one of those "stick happy newbies" but I reign in my desire to fly until I've either got a buddy-box hooked up OR a VERY good pilot standing RIGHT next to me ready to grab! Heck, I don't even START my plane without supervision!!!
if you knew my kind of luck, you'd understand why [:@] ) even WITH a buddy-box I managed to pull of a perfect 3 point landing >> in the top of a 60' pinetree! (the dude on the other end of the cord should have been paying a LITTLE more attention and it was a pretty tree thick and short field with tall pines at each end.... the tree gnomes got me....

oh, and i sympathize about tromping through the woods; when mine went down/up(?) I picked FIVE ticks off of me and the briars tore my legs and sandaled feet to SHREDS! The only way we found the plane was that it had completely sheared the horiz. stab and it was at the base of the tree, so we looked up and there it was, sitting as pretty as it could be! It really didn't have any damage either (aside from the tail). The guy on the box was really cool about it, went out 2 days later and got it down with a LONG PVC pole, rebuilt the tail, and even replaced a servo that was going wonky; oh! and he put a new wing on it instead of using the busted one!

"YOU'RE on the box, YOU'RE responsible for the plane" was the way my good friend explained it to me (i was about to buy this plane from him THAT DAY, so "technically" it was HIS plane in the tree! I DID buy it after the crash and it's a darned good plane (a Tower 60) with just a rip in the mylar on the side as "proof" of it's ordeal )

You can't really blame the newbie though (well, you CAN, but listen to me first...); new pilots with new planes want to fly SO bad that they can't stand it! TRUST ME, I'M THERE!!!! and sometimes you THINK you can do more than you CAN at this stage. I completely agree with you, he should NOT have flown alone; that's CLEARLY a mistake I guarantee you he won't make again! But in his DESIRE to fly outran his ABILITY to fly and that's something I can sympathize with..... I don't think any here has ever NOT run into this situation, whether we chose to act on it may have been different, but I kinda feel sorry for the guy. He now knows he made a BAD mistake, he's lost his plane because of it, and he's probably half-sick with regret.

Maybe you could talk him into buying a new plane and getting HIM to build it himself (with your guidance of course; no crooked tailfeathers ) so he'll have alot more effort invested in it and won't do something like that again. Give him a good dressing down for his actions, but also encourage him to not give it up. I hate to see the sport loose any pilot b/c of DUMB rookie mistakes.... [] Who knows, this little "object lesson" may make him one of the best trainers on the field one day and he could bring dozens of new guys into the sport!

jester_s1

No sympathy on my end. I wouldn't have even helped him look for his plane. I'm about a year and a half into this hobby and took 9 months to solo. Why? Because I had scheduling conflicts with the club trainers and had to get flying time whenever I could. It ate me up that I had a new toy and couldn't fly it, but I also understood the danger to the plane and to other's property with an untrained pilot in charge. I never did anything without the trainer's say so, and as a result, can now fly safely and have a good rapport with other club members. No accidents as of yet except to the plane during training mishaps. There is no excuse for even starting a plane without having soloed with a trainer. It's against AMA regs (therefore illegal), it's not covered by AMA insurance, and it's dangerous and stupid. A person who would do that isn't welcome to fly near me and shouldn't be in the hobby.

If I sound like a Nazi about safety, consider that my other hobby is competitive shooting (about 8 years on that). We drill safety constantly in matches, and to date there have been no injuries due to negligent discharges since IPSC started in the 70's. What AMA sponsored club can say that same about model planes?

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

Not at all. I've witness just about EVERY new pilot at our field including myself put their plane on a direct collision course with other pilots in the pit or tent area, and the only thing that stopped the plane was the instructor on the buddy box. I remember when it happened to me, and that was after about 15-20 successful takeoffs.

jester_s1

Well I can't say i've seen much in the way of unsafe at my club, which is why I am happy to be a member. Some hobbies (this one included) are not for everybody. "Everybody" includes deadheads, immature people that are unsupervised, know-it-all's, and all varieties of inconsiderate people. There are hobbies for people like that, such as paintball (which I also was into for a while).

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

Funny you should mention "Safety Nazi" I get called that occasionally although I am fairly laid back...most of the time. The guy that lost his plane is a nice guy and is (was?) a fine student. He just got a little rambunctious. I hope he hangs in there. The safty rule will have to be kept though do to the risk to others etc etc ad nauseum.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

rlipsett

When you teach a newbie how to fly I believe that teaching them basic aerobatics is a necessity on different levels. One is to have some fun while learning and the other is to get them out of a basic safe pattern and build there confidence. I have seen many newbies fly adequately in the pattern, good enough to pass soloing. There problem occurs when the plane does something unexpected and they don't have the confidence to fix the problem. I am referring to the earlier poster saying that his student went stick free when he lost sight of the plane. Newbies can have great confidence in there ability to fly but little experience of what to do in troubling situations hence forth basic aerobatics to get them a primer for adverse situations. One of the biggest problem I have seen with newbies is go fever. That it when they get so excited to fly that they forget to do basic checks and preflights. Even I have secumbed once or twice to this malady. Try taking off with the wrong plane set on your radio, fortuneatly the elevator was reversed so I broke a prop before breaking ground.

aerowoof

way back when [1970] in case of a lost plane we were taught to put a laminated card inside the fuse with name address and phone number in the fuselage so if found it could be returned.the field was a soccer field at wayland h.s in mass.tennis courts on one side trees on the other side parking lot at one end[no fly zone] and large swamp/lake at the other end.

BobMaine

I used to taxi practice my high wing trainer with the wing off. Learned the rudder when it was coming at me, etc. Never could get it off the ground or out of sight...

flyX

yeah..i had the same problem too when i practice taxi ing my tail drager.

Darn instructor better get on the ball..thou.
Gotta make his round of doing preflight or pre-assembly check at ur field, now.
How the heck ur going to do that without turning on your Radio...I'd have no clue.[sm=idea.gif]

U can't T him off too bad..though.
He'll just sit beyond the flying field in his truck with his TX on.

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

I teach students to loop and roll and recover as well as fly the pattern. The boring time for the teacher is when all you do is hold the trainer button down. This is when I take it and put it in an odd position and let 'em have it back. Sometimes I don't even tell them I took it, its fun when they figure out whats going on.

manks

You know, I am pretty good about safety, but when I was learning I did fly once with out an instructor before I got my wings. I was not smart, but I had soloed many times and was about a week from getting my wings, I had not been out for a couple of weeks and it was one opportunity in perfect weather, went to the field hoping someone would be there, but there was not. So I taxied around, did a take off run or two, then on the last one, rotated the plane and did a couple of easy circuits, landed and waited for others to come. It was not smart, but it was also not really unsafe, I should not have done it, fully admit I was wrong that day.

jester_s1

At least you had achieved a basic level of competence. The big issue at stake is liability in case the worst happens. With no AMA insurance few people could cover the damages out of pocket that a runaway plane could cause, not to mention the lawsuits a guy would be open too who is flying illegally and without club approval.

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

A lost airplane could lead to a lost flying field.

Spacemonkey71

yeah, the legal liabilities issues are pretty heavy in a "worst case" scenario. I started really thinking about this recently and concluded that hitting a car or, god forbid, a person with even a small plane in flight would be (in terms of force) LITERALLY like throwing a brick out of a car moving at 30-40+ mph !!!![:@][:@][:@]!!!!

People HAVE been killed by runaway planes.... there was a pretty famous public incident caught on film at a stadium just a couple of years ago (I can't remember if it was a baseball game or a football game) The pilot lost control or eqpt malfunction or dumb-thumbed it and hit a spectator in the stands - the spectator DIED!!!!

I don't know what happened to the pilot. Does anyone remember this and have any more information about the "aftermath" of this tragedy? I'm sure at the very least he was charged with "negligent homicide" and/or "reckless endangerment resulting in death" which is NO laughing matter..... that's a possible 2-5yr prison sentence [X(] not to mention the very real possibility of a "wrongful death" lawsuit from the victim's family which can set you back $2M-$3M (meaning that they garnish your wages for the rest of your life)

95tequesta

My Feedback: (4)

This should be reworded to say "No soloed flyer will have control of a moving airplane unless on a buddy box, and with a club member on the master control." or something along those lines. This would keep the student from bringing out a friend and having them be on buddy box. Try to be as specific as possible to keep holes from showing up and the headaches down.



Not a good idea!! On a tricycle plane the torque from the engine can flip the plane. Ask me how I know? Yep, did it when I first learned.

RU4JESUS2 FALCONGTS

I had taught my self how to fly first electric then glo
my 4th time to the club the 3 earlier were on buddy boxes I went up by myself with 4 other pilots at the time no one knew it was my solo flight until i told the pilot beside me
sorry my first time solo flight here ,he looks at me then my plane and tell me ,I think your dead stick ( motor just shut off) have you ever dead stick landing before ,I said NO
His reply your going to learn real fast

our club has a test you have to pass now to be able to fly
been flying 4 years now and able to teach others But glad our club went to a test to keep people and property safe and everyone happy !!!!

I wanted to fly the F4 but my body has flaws and that did not happen ,what started with me and my kids I told them if you put me in a plane ill fly it .And they said dad you can't fly
for me ive been blessed with the gift how to fly . but all should learn how to fly at a club so no one gets hurt and every one stays safe

Charlie P.

Would you fly a model without the engine broken in and thereafter tuned properly? I don't know of ANY beginners who come into the hobby with a test stand and therefore the only way to break in the engine is by running it on the model. Teathered or well held, certainly, but there's one good excuse. When I was working with the flight school at our club we would have the students start their models (with a buddy) to get them used to it while the instructors were busy with the in-the-air students. Mostly because the "floating" assistants would spot problems during the pre-flight & warm-up well before the model was up in the "batter's box" for a flight.

The AMA is a wonderful organization but is not part of the federal or any state legislature or judicial branch and therefore cannot pass laws. Breaking AMA recommendations is not illegal. It is grounds for dismissal from AMA and most r/c clubs, but there again, no one is legally or otherwise obligated to be a member and their guidelines do not apply to non-members. It's not illegal to buy and turn on a transmitter even if it might interfere with other pilots. Just poor form.

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the clarification Charlie. We are a small club and most of the usual crowd hadn't shown up yet. Most of the members in our small club are very helpful. Common sense usually prevails but sometimes temptation gets the best of all of us. I have spoken with this gentleman and offered to help him with a replacement but he says he will just get a new ARF trainer. It was an expensive lesson.

jester_s1

Charlie- I wasn't thinking about running up an engine on a starter stand when I made my post. So technically you are right- preflight work with a plane is excusable without a buddy cord attached.

As for legal issues, I can't cite the law on the books, but I'm fairly certain that there is a federal law that prohibits flying RC planes without an AMA membership. True, the AMA is not a government organization but the government can require one to purchase its insurance policy before flying solo.

plugin

You guys go about AMA while here in Colombia there is no governing body whatsoever. Insurance companies wont even issue insurance for our hobby so if you get paranoid and start thinking about it a lot, there is no way you'll be flying.

I totally agree with safety nazis although I'm to young compared to the regular members at my club to be ranting about safety, they wouldn't take me seriously so I spend my time being paranoid in my head and moving my stuff around to avoid irresponsible people. Despite all safety measures at my field, someone almost got killed last week and it was nobody's fault. There was a heli pilot using the main airplane runway (with everyone's approval) which is actually safer than the heli area because its wider and has got less possible obstacles. He's not a pro but hes a fairly good pilot and never tends to lose orientation. He was starting to practice loops on his heli and as he was in the middle of one of those, a heavy gust hit him and his heli came down at about 80mph onto and into the main hangar. It ripped right through the metal ceiling and crashed between two pilots who where in the hangar at the time. The oil stain in the floor was 2ft shy of one of the guys. It would have killed one of them with no doubt. I was about 100ft away and was shaking for about 20 minutes after this happened, I could not fly again that day.