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soldering a metal clevis

Old 09-08-2008, 03:26 AM
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dinointexas
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Default soldering a metal clevis

would rosin core solder be ok to attach a metal clevis to a piano wire? size of wire is 2-56, its for the ELEV. and RUDDER. thanks
DINO
Old 09-08-2008, 05:25 AM
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jetmech05
 
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

clean both the clevis and the rod....make sure your iron is big enough to heat both, use some flux...You'll be fine....oh yea don't let the clevis move until the solder hardens
Good Flyin
Old 09-08-2008, 05:55 AM
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Missileman
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

I have used rosin core in the past with good results although I prefer silver solder for clevis'
Old 09-08-2008, 06:29 AM
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CGRetired
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Yes, rosin core solder will work just fine. As said, make sure both sides are hot and that the solder flows into the clevis and coats the rod without a 'ball' forming.

CGr
Old 09-08-2008, 07:13 AM
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goirish
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Morning CG

Not a good day at the float fly. Was flying my SeaMaster 40 with a 70 4 stroke Magnum. Flying right hand patternsomeone decided to fly left hand and I tried to avoid him. Lost control of my plane and in the drink it went. Total loss including a almost brand new 70 mag at the bottom of the lake. I even had it cabled to the upright but that broke off and the whole think sank to the bottom. What a bummer.
Old 09-08-2008, 07:23 AM
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CGRetired
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Good morning, Irish.

Truly a bummer. Sad day, for sure. Those are the tough ones. I've never flown over water, or flown a float, but have a strong desire to build one that I've admired for some time now.. one of those with the pusher engines on a pod over the fuselage type planes. I don't remember the name, but I have one on my wish list at Tower and will get it sooner or later.

We're in Massachusetts, headed home today. Mom's 92nd birthday, Julie's 62nd.. so we came up here to spend some time with my Mom and brother and family. Had a great weekend. Now, it's a short breakfast (cerial, banana, toast, coffee, OJ) then on to the airport to fly back to Philadelphia then drive home to the shore. England on Wednesday for work for about two or three weeks, then upon return, laundry, re-pack, then Julie and I are headed to Salzburg, Austria to visit with her brother. Should be a fun month and a very busy one. No stick time, unfortunately, unless the guys in the UK are flying.. I may head over to their field and see what's going on, visit with old friends, and maybe.. just maybe, get a few moments of stick time... only if they are flying with aileron/elevator are on the right stick that is.. ha..

I will have my PC handy so I will be on RCU as often as time permits... but the 5 hour time difference will have me on at different times. The UK hotel, Marriott Cheshunt, is a B&B type of place with a really great breakfast!!! I'll let you know the daily fare!!!

Back on subject so no one accuses us of hijacking this thread... When soldering, allow enough solder to flow into the clevis and coat the rod with a slight amount on the outside but not enough to form a drop shape on the bottom. If you do it right, fast enough to prevent it from cooling quickly and making a cold joint, but slow enough to allow it to flow into the joint completely. You can 'wash' the rosin off with alcohol after you are done.

CGr.
Old 09-08-2008, 07:47 AM
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dinointexas
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

ok, thanks guys i appricate it, i'll give it a go
Old 09-08-2008, 07:49 AM
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goirish
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Have a great time in Austria, that is someplace I would really like to visit. We head out on the Mediterranean cruise this month 15 days, looking forward to it. Thanks for the good advice on soldering.
Old 09-08-2008, 09:17 AM
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Rosen core is difficult to work with on piano wire and you will have much better results with acid core solder and better reliability.

John
Old 09-08-2008, 10:39 AM
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Rodney
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Yes, rosin core will work fine if you make sure to clean the wire very well first, use flux and (most important) use a large enough iron to heat the wire and the clevis adequately. Acid core will also work but, if you use acid core, make sure to completely clean the completed joint well (scrub well) of all flux residue or you will soon have a corroded joint.
Old 09-09-2008, 09:41 AM
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safeTwire
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

If you first wipe the piano wire end with alcohol ( don't use rubbing alcohol ) to remove oil, debris etc. Then use fine or medium sandpaper on it which creates a better surface for the solder to grab onto, then wipe it clean again with the alcohol before you solder. Try not to touch the wire end again with your fingers, which might transfer oil from your skin onto the area which is to be soldered.

Bring both wire and clevis to a high enough temperature which allows the solder to flow, avoiding what is called a "cold joint".

Clean the completed assembly with a soft wire brush, and work a drop of oil all around it.

Take a photo and post it, if you wish. I appreciate good solder joints! ( Your plane will too! )
Old 09-09-2008, 09:48 AM
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goirish
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis


ORIGINAL: safeTwire

If you first wipe the piano wire end with alcohol ( don't use rubbing alcohol ) to remove oil, debris etc. Then use fine or medium sandpaper on it which creates a better surface for the solder to grab onto, then wipe it clean again with the alcohol before you solder. Try not to touch the wire end again with your fingers, which might transfer oil from your skin onto the area which is to be soldered.

Bring both wire and clevis to a high enough temperature which allows the solder to flow, avoiding what is called a "cold joint".

Clean the completed assembly with a soft wire brush, and work a drop of oil all around it.

Take a photo and post it, if you wish. I appreciate good solder joints! ( Your plane will too! )

What kind of alcohol? surely not Jack Daniels. Where do you buy it?
Old 09-09-2008, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

why not rubbing alcohol?
Old 09-09-2008, 10:13 AM
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TedMo
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

I think it strange that only one person mentioned using acid core solder, rather then reson core. That's what acid core is for just don't use it on wireing.
Old 09-09-2008, 10:47 AM
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jaka
 
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Hi!
Best solder to use is "Stray brite"!
Old 09-09-2008, 11:32 AM
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safeTwire
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Jet Mech...You can use rubbing alcohol. I should have mentioned when selecting Rubbing Alcohol, that it doesn't contain coloring additives, and/or, fragrance oils.


or...a quote from the uses of Isopropyl Alcohol:

"Isopropyl alcohol is cheaply available. Like acetone, it dissolves a wide range of nonpolar compounds. It is also relatively nontoxic and dries quickly. Thus it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid (by dissolving lipophilic contaminants such as oil). Examples of this use include cleaning electronic devices such as contact pins (like those on ROM cartridges), magnetic tape deck and floppy disk drive heads, the lenses of lasers in optical disc drives (e.g. CD, DVD) and removing thermal paste from CPUs."

goirish...Three Fingers of Bourbon will do the "Job" quite well!

Old 09-09-2008, 11:35 AM
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JohnBuckner
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Acid core indeed works very well for piano wire, does not require the higher temperatures of expensive silver solder and is far easier to get a good joint over rosen core.

Of course the joint should be cleaned afterward to prevent corrosion but of course this really should be done with any structural joint. And we are talking about structural joints it should not be used on electronics as always.

You will not find Acid core at your local electronics shop (for obvious reasons i.e. not for electrical) but you will find it at your better true hardward stores and its quite inexpensive.

Here are some samples soldered washer/wheel keepers (gave up on collers long ago) on 5/32 landing gear wire. Yes I do use at times soldered on clevis.

John
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:53 AM
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goirish
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

ORIGINAL: safeTwire

Jet Mech...You can use rubbing alcohol. I should have mentioned when selecting Rubbing Alcohol, that it doesn't contain coloring additives, and/or, fragrance oils.


or...a quote from the uses of Isopropyl Alcohol:

"Isopropyl alcohol is cheaply available. Like acetone, it dissolves a wide range of nonpolar compounds. It is also relatively nontoxic and dries quickly. Thus it is used widely as a solvent and as a cleaning fluid (by dissolving lipophilic contaminants such as oil). Examples of this use include cleaning electronic devices such as contact pins (like those on ROM cartridges), magnetic tape deck and floppy disk drive heads, the lenses of lasers in optical disc drives (e.g. CD, DVD) and removing thermal paste from CPUs."

goirish...Three Fingers of Bourbon will do the "Job" quite well!


With three fingers of bourbon who cares what it looks like. Instead of walking backwards I would be flying backwards.
Old 09-09-2008, 11:59 AM
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Rodney
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

For those of you using a solder containing a bit of silver (Like Staybrite) remember that they usually use an acid flux so very good cleaning of the joint after soldering is necessary to prevent rust and corrosion from showing up very soon. And Tedmo is correct, acid flux will help make a good solder joint on piano wire or metal to metal joints easier than using a rosin flux. The original question was "will a rosin flux do the job?" and the answer is still yes.
Old 09-09-2008, 05:02 PM
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HighPlains
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Acetone for cleaning and either acid core or silver solder with the proper flux. Acetone is a much better solvent and will do a better job of cleaning. It's also good to do a good mechanical job of cleaning before the solvent.
Old 09-09-2008, 05:09 PM
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

I am guessing the original poster is inexperienced with soldering and to help make this successful here are some basic instructions / recommendations.
Get yourself some of this http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXFS75&P=ML there is enough solder in this kit to do a lot of clevis installations and using this kit will really help you get a good solder joint. Any standard soldering iron is well suited to use with this solder. This solder kit is not intended to be used on servo leads or electronic assemblies so don't use it for that save it for piano wire soldering.
Clean about 1 inch of end of the piano wire with sand paper, 400 grit recommended, until it is shiney This is not to create a rough surface for the solder to stick to, it is to clean the quenching oil off of and out of the piano wire.
Once the end is cleaned with sand paper use plain generic isopropyl alcohol and wipe the end of the wire and the clevis. This gets rid of any remaining oil on both pieces. Isopropyl alcohol is the industry standard for cleaning electronic parts before soldering operations. I do not know what basis the advice not to use it (mentioned previously in the thread) comes from. It is good stuff, it is cheap, it is readily available.
Secure the wire so it is held steady and secure in a horizontal orientation. If you are using a vise (or something else that is a heat sink) allow about 4 inches of wire to stick out past the jaws.
Put about 3 paper towels folded in half under the area you will be soldering, the flux in the kit is liquid like water, but it is acid so you don't want to allow it to get on anything important (anything that your wife, mother, girfriend will yell at you about if it gets messed up).
Soldering iron should be preheated and ready to go. Trying to use something like a "cold heat" soldering iron will not get the job done in this application. Use a standard "Weller" soldering iron. You can also use a solder gun but you will have to work very quickly to avoid overheating the work piece.
Put the clevis on the wire, apply flux to the clevis and the wire.
Clean the tip of the soldering iron and touch it to the wireand the end of the clevis, apply solder to the wire where you are touching it with the soldering iron, the solder should melt onto the wire and clevis and be sucked into the clevis forming a bond from the end of the wire to the end of the clevis. Once the tip of the iron touches the piano wire the solder operation should not take more than 30 seconds to complete (actually about 15 seconds once you have done a few and get the hang of it).
Remove the soldering iron and do not move the work piece for two minutes. If the solder is moved before it becomes a solid again the solder joint will not have any integrity and it will fail.
Someone mentioned cold solder joints earlier in the thread, it should be noted that cold solder joints are caused by overheating the solder causing it to become grainy in appearance and brittle in its mechanical properties.
If there is insufficent heat applied during the solder process the solder will not flow onto the pieces, it will just be a blob or ball of solder sitting on top of the pieces.
It has been stated that you can solder piano wire with resin core solder, while it may be possible to do it I have not had acceptable results when I have attempted it. A lot of push rods are not piano wire, they are plated steel. Plated steel can very easily be soldered with electronic grade resin core solder.
Old 09-09-2008, 10:44 PM
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safeTwire
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

Nice work John!

Charlie, Degrease first...then sand. Just like preparing for paint job. Sanding first will not remove the contaminants (oils, grease, etc ) that will interfere with your objective. Of course after sanding, you have to clean again.

"With three fingers of bourbon who cares what it looks like. Instead of walking backwards I would be flying backwards."...LOL!
Old 09-10-2008, 06:53 AM
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Default RE: soldering a metal clevis

I use denatured alcohol because sometimes it is difficult to find 90% isopropyl at the store. When I can find it, I buy 2 or 3 quarts at a time, as the denatured is about $5 / qt. here. Isopropyl is cut with water, which I don't want. Read the label to find the percentage.

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