cappaj1

My Feedback: (1)

For my [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7909419/tm.htm]biplane[/link] which has a cowl, I purchased a quick fill fuel valve to use with the standard two line fuel system - see pic.

I plan on mounting the fueling valve on a brass bar, bolted to the firewall and stretched out in front against the inside of the cowl. The cowl will have a small hole in it in exactly the same location.
This way I can fuel up without removing the cowl, and when I need to remove the cowl, I'm not messing with fuel lines and connectors.

1) Is this idea sound, and has anyone got anything similar or a different suggestion before I do this?
2) Are these fuel valves problematic? I've heard they leak eventually.

Thanks.

ChuckW

I've never used this particular valve but I have used one from another manufacturer that leaked fuel and sucked air. Other people I know have complained of similar problems.

If you use it your mounting idea sounds good but I would avoid the brass. Why? Because brass adds weight and every ounce counts. I'd use light ply instead. Of course if you need the nose weight anyhow, ignore what I just said.

Personally though, I prefer fuel dots. They are clean, simple and basically foolproof. I would avoid using the T-fittings though and stick with a 3-line system.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAHE1&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXRRD1&P=ML

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=HAN115

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I've used those valves before. And I will never use them again. First of all, you have to keep track of the filling probe. Lose it and you're sunk and can't fuel your plane. Second, these valve have a habit of leaking. Many times when you fill the plane the valve will stick open when you remove filling probe, which will result in all of your fuel leaking out onto the ground. They are definitely more trouble than they are worth. I threw all of the ones that I had away. For cowled engines I now use Fuel dots. Very easy to install and almost nothing to go wrong with them.

Ken

Delta3

The fuel filling setup you purchased costs about $25 over here in Oz. I have a couple of them and they are more trouble than they are worth. I use "Fuel Dots" just means you need to put a third line on your tank and a second klunk to hold the fuel line down in the tank. Very simple, very cheap (two in a pack for about $4) never seen anything malfunction and if you position them correctly they look just like they were meant to be there as part of a real plane.

Much better value for money cause you would get about a dozen for the same price as one of those fancy fuel fillers

jetmech05

whenever you have a cowl just use a fuel dot and the 3 line system...hardy ever gives you a problem....remember the KISS principle..keep it simple stupid.....now I'm not calling you stupid or anyone else.... that's just what KISS meant....no special fueling adapters neat and easy
Good Flyin

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

At my last pattern meet I saw guys who had a 2 line system with one of the lines looping out of the cowl. Done in a strategic location, this allows complete defueling via the pickup line, gives a place to disconnect the engine for running dry at the end of the day, and also allows for ease of cowl removal. This is what I plan on doing with my planes in the future.

Does anyone have a pic of this?

Currently I use the dots, but do a 2 line system with 't' fittings. No problems and clean looks.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Like Jetmech I feel the KISS principle results in far more flying time and a lot less frustration and certainly no extra cost at all.

The only differance is I always use two line systems on sport glow engines, cowling or not and very simple, fewer failure modes than valves and three line systems as well as no lost fuel capacity from extra clunks in the tank.

I prefer to fly rather than looking for lost dots in the grass or fool with mysterious engine problems caused by valves.

This also offers a perfect place to use pinch tuning techniques if you,ve a mind to something you cannot normally do with a cowled valve setup.
John

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

cruzomatic

My Feedback: (17)

Use the dot. It's simple, reliable, inexpensive and won't leak.

brenthampton79

cappa

I have used both gp and the dubro fueling probe and have a dubro on a skybolt I built when I was a teenager so that was about 10 years ago. It still has the same fuel probe and still works fine, my only caution is that if you don't fly it much which I don't this plane much the probe will somtimes stick and you will have to get it to pop back into place, however my extra and sukhoi which both I fly regulary I have no problems with either.
How you're mounting the thing sounds pretty sound to me I have used ply epoxied at the edge of the firewall and drill a hole and mount it this way but the brass sounds fine as well.

As for the fuel dots I think that would be the best most reliable answer, but I personally haven't had any problems with the probes ( Now that I say that they will probably all self destruct on me ) and I will continue to use them for now.

But I will say thanks for bringing this up I learned something from the others that have apparantly had problems so now I will know if i have engine problems I may need to look at this part first.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I used the Dubro when I was getting into RC, people warned me about them but I alread had them and they worked great. Then one day one of them jumped up and bit me real hard in the mule, then the other one went out on me. About 8 months later the third one really bit me hard, by then I was using the three line and dot like Ken showed you. I have used the two line that John showed and GA mentioned and they work great, easy to do but are kinda ugly!! Friends should never let firends fly an ugly plane!!

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

I post this answer all the time as well.
I use the easy fueler on several planes, they are still working,they work well if you keep them clean and don't let fuel sit in them so they don't get gummed up,clogged and stickey pretty simple really.
funny thing is this topic comes up about every 2-3 months and the same 6 guys say the same 6 answers.

as for mounting a little light ply epoxied to the firewall works well its what I have used on my mounting of the filler valve or a fuel dot for that matter.
really if your into low maintanence then the dot is the answer,the dot is just a plug anyway so no moving parts to go bad.

the fueler needs a maintenence flushing every once in a while I do mine at the beginning of the flying season a little alcohol to clean any build up from sitting fuel its pretty minor.

da Rock

OK, I'll add to those 6 guys numbers.

I tried a fueler once about 3 years ago. It gave troubles from about the 2nd week. I replaced it with another and it lasted about a month. Two different ones in that short time...... Not a good track record.

I only know for sure of two other guys who use them. I know they do because they've asked help with badly running engines and first thing I tried was to route the hoses to get them out of the system. And that was the last thing that was tried, because the engine problems went away. It is actually amazing how badly those things seem to work. The only people I know who recommend them right now are the guys at one LHS and they don't fly much any more, if ever.

I'm sure there are people who use them successfully. But it's very obvious to me at least, that they have a really awful record.

chemie

I am confused. The first picture shown by RCKen shows three lines with one line with the fuel dot. All the other pictures posted by everyone of their planes shows two fuel dots in the cowl?????

Flying freak

The other plans are running smoke so they need one to fill with smoke and one to fill with fuel

chuck993

Use a fuel dot, they are cheap and very effective, I have them on all my airplanes that have cowls, very simple and no fuel line hanging out and wrapping around like those pics...LOL

da Rock

LOL...... not all of them. And maybe very few of them.

The pictures of planes with two fuel dots is what you have when one line if for filling and the other for overflow. The picture of the Skybolt directly above shows the two lines as I leave them when the plane isn't in use. I used that picture because all the others I have of all my planes don't show any fuel line, just two dots against the cowl. I posted the picture to show the hose color. When ready to fuel, I pull the hoses out some. There is an inch or so of excess to make handling the dot easy. I pull them out, pull out the two dots, and plug the fueling line into the front line. The orange line is the overflow. When the tank reaches full, some fuel overflows out that orange line and I know the tank is completely full.

I do that instead of having the overflow pour out the muffler. The fill line has it's own clunk in the tank. That way, I can very easily empty the tank after the last flight.

da Rock

RCKen's first picture shows one way to route the hoses and only has one (the fill/empty) hose with a dot. His 3rd picture in the same post shows a model with two dots. That model in that last picture either isn't plumbed the way his 1st picture shows and uses the other dot for an overflow, or it could be as Flying freak says, and that other dot if for smoke fluid.

RCKen's plumbing picture shows the simple way to rig a fuel dot setup. There are a number of variations. Some overflows into a muffler wind up putting a lot of fuel into that muffler before it overflows. So lots of people put a T fitting into the muffler pressure line to give a quicker route for the overflow fuel. They then run that quick-out line to the cowl beside the input line, and you then need two dots. Works like a charm.

Ken's plumbing picture also shows a fill/empty hose in the tank just laying there, no clunk on it. That's an excellent way to have it, but some people put a clunk on that line too. You can't always rely on the brand of hose you have to work with laying flat on the tank bottom. Different strokes for different folks, just like the number of hoses to the cowl.

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

If you use the Dubro model fuel valve you can get a rebuild kit. I keep a couple of these with me though I haven't needed to use them.

[link=http://www.shopatron.com/product/part_number=718/101.0.5161.5177.0.0.0]glow fuel valve rebuild kit[/link]

cappaj1

My Feedback: (1)

Now I'm thinking of returning the fuel valve and going with a two line system with T's and fuel dots on both the clunk and vent lines but I want something that makes removing the cowl easy.
So then I'm thinking maybe just have those two lines exit and re-enter the cowl with two fuel line connectors but that kind of looks ugly.

When I go to remove the cowl, how difficult is it to remove the fuel dots from the cowl?

brett65

My Feedback: (18)

I agree with you cappa that the hanging line is ugly. A guy at my field has a small by pass that mounts on the outside that is very clean. It has only about an inch of line showing and looks much cleaner. I plan on using it to know when my plane is full by running the muffler line through it and filling it with a fuel dot. I can't find it on tower at the moment, but hopefully somebody can help me find it.

bassmanh

My Feedback: (5)

cap,

heres another easy way to do it, its very simple cheap and works well and you can still do the pinch tests if you want.

they come in different colors to help blend into the cowls also. check them out here link = http://ecsvr.com/abm/ShopDisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes





bassman

Missileman

Not hard at all, just put enough extra fuel line so you can comfortably remove the cowl then pull the dot off of the line.(note: long enough to get the line started through the sleeve as you install the cowl)
The fuel line just slips through a metal sleeve in the cowl and the dot is just plugged into the end of the fuel line.
Very simple and easy to remove the cowl.
For the record, I used to use 2 fuel dots with a T on the vent line so I could tell when the tank is full. The vent line would squirt fuel at exactly the same time it came out of the muffler. The second line was a complete waste of time. I now only use one dot to fuel and watch my muffler when filling (I have gotten to where I can tell when the tank is full before it leaks out of the muffler by the change in pitch of my fuel pump)

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Photos!! And talk about an Ugly plane!!!! It's some big Decathlon AFR I pick up in A trade deal. Anyway, I don't run the dots out the side of the cowl, the cowl is A weak spot and it really doesn't like to have the fuel line pulled in and out of the dot all that much. The dot cap has an O-ring and you push it in and it holds but then you have to pull it out too. I mount mine someplace out of the way on the fuse, the fuel tank doesn't care how far away the fill/drain line is, just as long as there are no binds or kinks in the line. The other little dot next to the fuel dot is one of my home made extended glow driver plugs. I make them from head phone jacks from radio shack. Problem with them is that if you have them too far away from the glow plug like on this plane you have to use A power pannel to get enough juice to the glow plug to heat it. The little hot shots just don't have the poop!! The loop line really isn't that ugly, John has some outstanding looking planes and no one notices the line at all and it can be hidden in an out of the way spot, it's an easy system and been used for years, the ugly crack was A joke! Do what works for you and don't get stuck doing things only one way, I got away with the filler valves for quite A while, there are just better ways to do things.

RVman

Ok very simple solution that costs nothing. Put a break in your carb line and loop it long enough inside the cowling so when you need to fuel; pull the line out of one of the cooling inlets in the cowl, fill it up and then put the line back in the cowl. No ugly fuel lines or dots hanging around outside the cowl and nothing to go wrong.