Minnreefer

I am really wanting to build a plane either from scratch or from a kit, there is about 100 that I would like to start with, but I am either thinking a flying boat or a sig hog bipe, and or something my old OS 20 could fit into. I am looking for a second or third plane that is do-able to build, I like the slow poke but have heard that the slow poke is not a good kit to start with.

Thanks

Jon

Delta3

Well I admire your tenacity and desire to build a kit but here is a reality check, it will cost you a whole lot more to buy a kit and all the extra bits and pieces you will need than to build an ARF that has every thing contained in the box (except radio gear and engine) Over here in Oz you can buy a good ARF high wing trainer for $75, last time I looked at a kit (it was a Slow Poke) I figured it would cost around $250 to buy the kit and then the covering etc.

So unless you have plenty of time and are not in a hurry to go flying buy an ARF to get started with, whole lot quicker, easier and you will get to fly a whole lot sooner

Minnreefer

I have 5 planes in my hanger, nothing major, but enough to allow me to fly, if I can find the time, my problem is with 2 young kids at home and work and life, I have a couple of hours to "play" at night, and where I live in the winter it gets dark at 4 pm and light at 7 am, so not much daylight in the winter, so I need something to keep busy..

Jon

jetmech05

Delta has a point...the skyradier Mach 1 is a high wing trainer ARF..that cost 70 bucks or so..without engine or radio......kit...I recommend the LT-40 from sig...not a bad kit and the best trainer made then you have to get the engine and radio plu covering etc etc

Minnreefer

I should have put in my skill level, I am somewhat comfortable fly a tiger around, I have a teleemaster on floats that I need to mount an engine to to fly, my 60 size trainer that I still fly around, a stik that I need to cover (this weekend, I hope ) and a shoestring that I won't fly until I feel very very comfortable with the tiger.

Delta3

With 2 young children plus work and trying to have a life you would be very busy. My brother lives in an area that sounds a lot like yours, he has about 20 kits stored in his attick and that is where they will stay. He is a very good builder and has had planes he built on the front cover of magazines (Airborne Canadair Water Bomber). He has given up on building simply because of the cost of all the extra bits and pieces and the quality of ARF. Maybe you should buy a plane that is "ARC" Almost ready to cover and try that first. I bought a kit once don't know what happened to it after several frustrating attempts to put the sticks together ( I think it may have been used to start a BBQ at some stage).

It takes me long enough to build an ARF these days let alone building a kit but if you proceed good luck with it

GC

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Ok, I'm going to step in here for a second as a Moderator. If the man wants to build a kit please don't try to talk him out of it. He is asking a very reasonable question in which would be a good kit to build for the first build. So I respectfully ask that if people don't have anything constructive to help him out with that they refrain from posting.

Minnreefer,
Yes, the cost of building a plane it higher than you will experience with an ARF. But trust me, it's far outweighed by the enjoyment you get from building. And trust me, the first time your creation climbs into the air you will have a smile on your face that is about 2 states wide!!!! As for what to start with??? The Sig Hog Bipe that you mentioned is hard to top as a good building plane. And it's a great flying plane. I've had 3 of them, and built the last two. Not on your list of considerations but one you should think about is the Sig Somethin Extra. This is one of the easiest building planes that I've ever built. There is a joke we tell in that all you have to do with this kit is open the box, toss in a bottle of glue, shake the box, and dump out the completed plane!!! I've built three of them and the last one I had completely framed up in a weekend!! And this plane may fit right in with your flying progression. The SSE is a fantastic flying plane that is a total blast to fly.

You won't go wrong with either of these kits.

Ken

dalolyn

My Feedback: (7)

minnrreffer go for it I have built many many kits and they all were a joy in the end. The longest probably was a Dynaflite Flybaby 1/4 scale. took about 2 and a half years.The shortest build was a 4 star .40 two months. If it is your first kit I would pick something that is all pre cut and fabricated. Unless you are handy with tools and like to shape and cut. The highly fabricated kits are fairly easy and build true. However some kits have a lot of sheets and blocks that you need to shape yourself. Although this is what I like, it can be frustrating if you dont have the tools and proper experience. Keep your Knife blades sharp. ventilate when using ca or epoxy. and remember if you mess up you can always go to the hobby shop get some balsa and recut the piece.

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

SIG kits are really sweet. The Hog bipe is a superb flyer. Take your time with the wing mounting and be a little finicky, it will be a great winter project. Building is therapeutic you know The Sig kits are fairly complete as well with fine quality hardware and what not. Nothing wrong with ARFs (usually) but with a kit you will KNOW its built right. OH and SIG kits have really easy to follow directions. Finish and fly that stick! Sticks are classics for good reason. I have a 60 ultra stick ...my only arf.

ChuckW

I vote for the Somthin Extra. It is a great flying plane and a pleasure to build. Follow the instructions and it is almost impossible to screw up.

I'm currently in the middle of a Hog Bipe. It is similar in quality and construction to the SSE but does have two wings, cabanes and other stuff to deal with. Not that those are at all complicated on this particular kit (downright simple in fact). The SSE might just be a little bit better for a first-build in my opinion simply because there is less of it. Then again, if you are unable to fly in the winter and have time on your hands, you could finish the SSE pretty quick. Then you'll be looking for another project.

Sure, it can be expensive to build a kit but ARF prices are climbing at the moment and the gap is closing a little. I have a mostlyf ARF's and a few kits. All are great. Do what YOU enjoy. It is a hobby after all.

TZflyer

I started flying with ARFs about a year ago. I owned 2 trainers, a Big Stik, and a Showtime 50. I sold all of these planes and now fly only my kit built aircraft. They are more expensive and take time but they are also stronger, unique and give me a thrill that I just don't get from the ready made stuff.
Minnreefer, I have completed 2 SIG kits and they are fantastic. Very high quality wood, great laser cutting and hardware. The planes are easy to build and come with clear instructions and plans.
I have the LT 25 for my son and a 4 star for me. The 4 Star is a great aircraft but it may be a bit tame for you if you are looking for a step up from your stik. I am busy building a Somethin Extra for a friend and its an even easier build than the other two. I have flown the SE and it's a very aerobatic plane thats also very easy to fly. I would have to go with the others and recommend the SE.

Now if only I could finish the SE and get started on that Mid Star waiting in its still sealed box under my desk...

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I cannot comment on the specific kits you're looking at, so I won't. I can however tell you that kit and stick building are an absolute joy for me. I've never purchased an ARF, but my club has three that we use as trainers. The ARFs I see show up at the field are consistent with what most people complain about. The old adage, you get what you pay for generally applies.

My recommendation is to try and download the instruction manuals for the planes you're looking at (if you can find them). Read through the instructions. Do they seem clear to you? Do they offer tips and tricks on how to easily accomplish the step?

Great Planes kits are generally VERY good for the first time builder. Once you get a couple kits under you're belt, you'll probably be in the market for a scratch build. That's when the fun really begins.

As for cost, if you plan a scratch build well, you can easily challenge the cost of an ARF. For my most recent build, I built my bill of materials, and then purchased the balsa and plywood from BalsaUSA. For about $35 delivered, I have nearly everything I need (its a self designed 90 size pattern/stunt plane, 64" wingspan, 65" length, weighing in around 7 lbs) Add in the cost of epoxy and fiberglass to make my own wing tube, phenolic and sockets, 3 or 4 rolls of covering, CF pushrods, landing gear yada-yada-yada, and I'm looking at about $150-$200 finished. An equivanlent ARF would easily run $300-500 or more. Labor of love for about 100 hours (very rough estimate). And it gives me something to do when its raining.

Get good tools. A razor plane is a must, and a miter sander can make the job much easier. Get a good sized whetstone and sharpen you're hobby knife periodically. The blades will last longer, and the oil helps them cut better. This goes for covering as well. Buy a box of 100 razor blades. You'll need them for covering. Get a builders square and a good metal ruler. A metal drywall ruler is also good. And a razor knife. As you get into more scratch building, you may want either a scroll saw or a band saw for some of the fancier cuts.

Read the Scratch Builders forum. Lots of good info.

Brad

cold_reboot

My Feedback: (20)

My first kit was the Sig 4* and it's a very straight forward and enjoyable build. You will pick up a lot of the basics of building (and repair). I'd definately recommend a Sig as a first kit since most, if not all, are laser cut. Soon as I got done with it I couldn't wait to get started on the next one. I'm currently about 80% done with the GP F4U Corsair. Oh and do yourself a favor and go with Ultracote....so much easier than Monokote.

Minnreefer

Thanks for the replys, I have always loved woodworking, I know that I am not the best at it, but I do a good enough job, the only thing I hate about building is covering, I do not like to cover, I need more pratice, but yuck. I have built 2 or 3 planes many years ago I think eagle 20's and have built 3 rc boats from rcmodeler plans. I will look at the SSE, and or the hog bipe.

Thanks

carrellh

KIt building can be fun. That often outweighs the price difference that may or may not exist between kits and prebuilt models.

You mentioned a 20 size engine that needs a home. The SIG Wonder might be a good choice. I think I've seen a build thread on it and from all reports it is a quick and maneuverable sport plane.

There are 3 trainer kits listed at Tower that a 20 is in the recommended range: Goldberg Eaglet 50, Great Planes PT-20, SIG Seniorita. Even though you already know how to fly, trainer kits are good for learning to build. Since they are trainers I "think" they're more forgiving of newbie mistakes than some of the more advanced models.

In scale models, Great Planes has the T Craft 20 and a 20 size Cub. House of Balsa has an AT-6 and a P-51.

Everything mentioned in this thread is available through the Tower site. There are probably other sources for small kits but these are the ones that were fairly easy to find.

cold_reboot

My Feedback: (20)

Thats why I mentioned Ultracote, not sure what you used a few years ago but the 4* was the first plane I ever covered (used Ultracote) and it doesn't have a single wrinkly in it. There are some short tutorial video's posted by RCUniverse on Youtube as well, watched those a few times before I started. Actually thats were i learned about Ultracote, guy in the video gets a wrinkle in the wing covering and says he'll be able to iron that out, "with Monokote it'd be there forever". Ultracote is also tougher than Monokote and adhears better with less seam overlapping, better stuff all the way around.

Oh, also forgot to mention, kit built planes usually come out lighter than ARF's as well, another advantage to kit building.

draftman1

the House of Balsa 20 size p51 is a great kit. the Sig wonder would be easy to cover. or just down load some plans and go for a scratch build. I dont like arfs and would rather build any day. I get more satisfaction out of building. on another note. since you dont like to cover, like me, try a SPAD. no covering involved!! plus there cheap to build

carrellh

Minnreefer, sorry to sidetrack your thread. When cold_reboot mentioned a Corsair I had to reply.

Hi cold_reboot,
My brother and I just finished the GP Corsair. I got the wing built and "ran out of steam" so my brother took it to his house and built the rest. It is covered in fabiric and painted similar to a plane that competed in the Cleveland National Air Races in 1949.
http://www.airrace.com/corsairs57.htm color photos near the bottom.
Our club is scheduled to have the judging/flying of a kit building contest Saturday but the weather forecast might mess it up. We're pretty far from the coast but hurricane Ike is supposed to spin bands of wind and rain through the area beginning around 7:00 Saturday morning.

We like the Corsair so far. We only did 3 flights to try to keep it looking new for the contest, but it does basic aerobatics pretty well and it looks like it might do an inverted flat (sorta flat) spin. We put an OS 70 Surpass I on it and still had to add approximately 6 ounces of lead to the engine mount.

Minnreefer

I will cover, I just need to pratice more, look at videos more, etc. I just had to recover half the wing of my tiger (stupid tree) and for the mojority of the covering it looks good, I did not do a very good job at the tip, but I was at the point where I did not care how it looks, as much as I want to be able to get it into the air.
I have looked at the 20 size kits, that looks about perfect for a home for an engine.
Jon

brett65

My Feedback: (18)

I'm like you, I have an old 25 plane I will be robbing for electronics and engine. I will be building my first kit over the winter, and I have it down to one of these.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXUJ25&P=0

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ567&P=0

cold_reboot

My Feedback: (20)

Carrellh,

Actually I picked the plane based on the engine I had lying around that needed a home, a Saito 82 banger, and I didn't think the world needed "another" P-51 floating around the air lanes. It's hard for me to run out of steam. I have one of those personalities wherein things left undone bug me (half built plane parts all over the house as it turns out seems to be my wifes pet peeve). I'm to the point on the plane now where all the individual parts are about to be glued together. I hope to have it at least ready for covering by the end of the weekend since Ike's gonna keep us all indoors. How does it fly outside of the aerobatics? Stall speed? Landing speed? (sorry didn't mean to Hijack )

beau0090_99

Hey Minnreefer,
I built and have yet to maiden the SIG sealane. That kit was great. Not the most complicated, and the manual was very well detailed. I'm hoping to get it maidened this week so that I can fly it at the float fly that TCRC is putting on at Bush Lake Park in Bloomington next Saturday the 20th (It got postponed). You should come down to that and check out the float and flying boats. The sealane is medium and dark blue with white. I hope to at least bring it there, even if it is not maidened, to see if someone wants to help me trim it there.

Delta,
I have a friend here in MN that is from TooWoomba, your brother doesn't live in Maple Grove does he? PM me when you get a chance.
Curtis

carrellh

cold_reboot,
The Corsair stalls at a higher speed than my Big Stik 60. It just falls forward, no wing drop or anything funny. It's a stable flyer. At low speed the controls are sluggish. It likes to be flown faster than my Stik. My brother did the landings and he kept up a good bit of speed. It only has 3 flights so far.

Our kit contest had to be postponed due to rain and wind related to hurricane Ike.

Delta3

Hi beau 0090 99

My brother lives in Orange in NSW. He has lived their for several years, prior to that he lived in Molong which is about 25 miles away. He is an excellent pilot and a very good builder. Doesn't fly much any more prefers to race RC cars with his daughter and son in law. Left the flying field because of the politics.

I don't fly much myself at the moment, have loads of planes but got a little dissapointed when my T28 Trojan was taken out of the sky a few months ago. The other clown just picked up the pieces of his plane and left, didn't say a word to me. Will slowly get back in to it and have a PC 9 almost finished so am not far away from getting airborn again.

We have two clubs up here in Toowoomba, still some building from scratch but mostly ARF.