fourstar40

My Feedback: (27)

I just had to start this thread. Everyone is familiar with Hanger 9's PTS P-51 mustang. Well, the LHS here is always pushing these dumb*** airplanes and something just has to be said. A beginner in my club has one and has been training on one all summer. I am one of the instructors that have been training him. Even this late in the year he still hasn't learned to turn it to the right.

In the beginning of the season I told him that a traditional trainer would probably be the way to go. I told him I understood that spending more money may not sound good to him but a regular trainer would be better. He hesitated but he went out and bought a Hanger 9 Alpha 40 and we flew it this past weekend. It was unbelievable to him how much easier it was to fly. He was able to turn right like a pro and my guess would be he will be soloing really soon.

My main reason for this thread is to rant a little. I get tired of the hobby industry always coming up with ways to sell newbies crap. These types of planes appeal to the ignorant because they look like a "real" plane and these hobby companies feed on this. I will add that the PTS Mustang is a decent flying airplane but not as a beginner, training type plane.

I wish that people new to the hobby would look up a local club first and I realize that sometimes that is not possible but it would give a guy more sound advise than to run to a LHS and ask someone just trying to make a buck.

My rant is now over and if anyone else would like to sound off, either for or against, I would definitely like to read it.

TedMo

Wholeheartedly agree with you on that. Plus I much too often read of so much equipment I have never heard of being purchased by newcomers. Often it's to save a few bucks which all too often is not the way to go. I think all newbies should locate and join a club where they can probably get advise before wasting money on junk. Also spening time right here on RCU can be very helpful if they read not just send in questions. Of course we oldtimers are here to help them but so often the same things are asked over and over which if they took the time to read this forum they would have found their answers. I have been in this hobby for many years but still find things of interest here a s well as offer some help.

Mr67Stang

I recently soloed a pilot on this plane. His instruction took all of a month. Later from a person that had no idea, I was asked how long this guy had been flying because he was doing so well. I responded that he had just soloed last week. So I conclude that there is a trainer for everyone and it may not be the same one. Some people can start on the F-22 PTS (I won't be instructing them) and others need the 3 channel Kadet Sr. I could not have managed on a P-51 PTS when I started. But this guy got it a little quicker than most I guess.

Dorsal

My Feedback: (17)

He who dies with the most toys leaves a widow with a really huge yard sale!

Mr67Stang

Probably true

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Now I like that one!!!!!!



Gee, my wife is gonna be a very VERY busy women!!!!!

Ken

Redback

Please don't let her sell it for what I told her I paid for it!!!!!!!!!![:@]

Terry

ho2zoo

My Feedback: (5)

I have worked with 4 or 5 students who have started out on the PTS Mustang. Only one of them actually went from start to solo with just the Mustang. The rest either switched to a more traditional high-wing trainer or quit flying. A real shame, actually.

The plane is not so bad when its up and at full power, but it gets really mushy feeling when you slow it down. And the take-offs can be a challenge for students, being a tail-dragger.

YUKONFLYR

If you put a traditional trainer up against a mustang in front of a newcomer, the trainer will loose on looks and flashyness... and the newcomer will go home with the sexi new mustang with the trainer stamp on it[:@]

You can trainer up a mustang and guess what..........its still a mustang[X(] "Wolf in sheeps clothing" still a wolf at heart.....

Better to go home with that dorky high wing trainer where things happen really slow and it will almost fly itself and has no bad habits. Keep the mustang for after the trainer has been mastered.

F-15J_JSDF

Darn the wife will be upset, She never throws or sells anything ... it is all wrapped up and STORED [:@]






NOTE : A Koala is NOT a BEAR and it is NOT called a Koala Bear ... Aussie Here [sm=teeth_smile.gif]

Missileman

I totally agree about the Mustang. I owned one as my 3rd plane.
Yes you will here success stories and some people will rag on about the PTS Mustang is the greatest trainer in the world because they learned on it. For some people the PTS P-51 is just too much for them and they really need the slower more forgiving traditional trainer.
Too bad they had to dish out the $400 on an airplane they just couldn't handle.Some people get discouraged and quit after the intitial failure.

TexasAirBoss

My Feedback: (22)

Was the PTS Mustang really marketed as a "first airplane" primary trainer ? I have seen a few people start out with it. But they had very patient people helping them. But now that I stop and think about it, I don't see either of them at the field any more these days. Gee, they really liked that plane and probably would have purchased many more Hangar 9 models, had they actually succeeded. Kind of ironic , really.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

We had one at our field that I know of ..the instructor said it just mushded through the air with all the gear on and 3 blade prop , and was too fast for a trainer with the gear off...the instructor didnt like it , but kept on trying new stuff and the newbie ended up getting a trainer and then crashing the mustang.....Rog

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well, I have to go with Mr67Stang and say that there is a trainer for everyone. Personally, I don't like to train people on a basic trainer. In fact, I have a new student - he contacted me and wanted to learn to fly. I told him since winter is approaching, not to buy anything yet, I would start him on a trainer that I have. It is a basic trainer, and all I can say is - I can't wait till next summer when he has an intermediate-type plane to fly.

hogflyer

I too agree with the above posts. One of my students brought out a Mustang PTS after he had some experience and soloed his Sky Raider Mach I (totaled with a receiver failure). He insisted on flying it the maiden with the 3-blade prop and all the garbage on it since H9 says it’s a trainer with all that stuff on it. I told him it wasn’t going to fly well, but he said to try it any way. Full throttle and it just mushed around right on the edge of a stall, and anything over a 30 bank stalled it. Approach was at full throttle and with nose down it actually flew the best on approach with the extra speed. Flair was non-existent. I refused to fly a second flight in that condition. Second flight was with the speed brakes removed and it was marginally better, but there again I refused to fly it until the prop was changed.

Third flight was with the prop changed to an 11 x 6 2-blade where it climbed and flew a lot better with the speed, but at this point it was too fast and maneuverable to work as a basic trainer. After all the training aids where removed and the flaps made functional did it fly well, but at this point it was not a trainer any more. Also to get a good landing power has to be carried through the landing. Cutting power and gliding in or deadstick landings just flop on the ground as it won’t flair.

I will recommend it as a secondary trainer with all the garbage removed, flaps made functional, and a 10 X 7 prop installed. H-9 just missed the mark and targeted the wrong audience for this plane.

Hogflyer

opjose

I learned with the PTS P-51.

Trained by an instructor who had never flown one... he liked it.

I soloed with the PTS after 3 days out at the field... I had practiced with G2 & G3.


Now I teach newbies, and have trained several using their P-51 PTS trainers.

I've never had a problem with them nor the plane ( other than those awful limiters! ).


The first flight is done with a club trainer, after that it's all done with their PTS'.

I DO leave the brakes and droops ON ( they need to go together for best effect ), but I replace the prop with an 11x6 ASAP.

With the droops and the brakes, the plane lands slowly, only a bit faster than a trainer.


Calling it a "dumb*** airplanes" is rather myopic.

That the newbie has been unable to solo with the PTS after a summer of flight either indicates a slower learner, or a trainer/instructor who may be unused to this type of beginning craft. It does NOT mean that it's a "dumb*** airplane" or that it is mismarketed.


That said, yes the high wing traditional trainers are often better entry planes for some.

da Rock

Jeez, I'm glad you guys haven't encountered the F-22 Raptor trainer, otherwise your posts would nave been TYPED IN ALL-CAPITAL LETTERS !!!

Don't remember who said it, but the people who sell that little jewel as a trainer ought to have a class action suit filed against them. Talk about having no real understanding of flying models.

We really do have a hobby industry that has some problems. On occasion they market flawed, badly flawed products. In volume, and for quite some time.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Sorry, it really is A Dumb****** Trainer. I think ho2zoo pretty much got it all said. I have only seen one of those jet trainer things and I sat and watched A very good instructor stuff it right after take off. I do feel that Horizon really did have A good idea and when you remove all the trainer crud the 51 isn't A bad little plane, just not A trainer.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Well, tell that to all the people that I have taught to fly on one.

Mr67Stang

Ditto

Only 2 so far but I will not be afraid to take on the third.

KWJ48

I had a lot of fun with my P-51 PTS. You got to remember it's not all plane. It's the learning curve of the student also. I guess I was a fast learner. I can say I really benefitted from the tail dragger gear on take offs and landings, it makes you learn rudder movements. To be honest I don't think I've ever flown anything with tricycle gear, and all of my current planes are tail draggers. I can see where it might not be suited for some people, but that's why we (my club) have club trainers for them to try first. The first thing I flew was the club trainer, which was plan built high winged tail dragger. The instructor flew with me, then later asked if I wanted to try my mustang, that same day. I'm pretty sure my instructor wouldn't have let me fly it (buddy box) unless he thought I wasn't confident/semi-skilled enough to. Plus I also had spent time on a sim before I flew. All in all, it's not as bad as some think.

opjose

I can't speak to that one, and everyone seems to avoid the F-22 PTS at our field... maybe with good reason.

bruce88123

OK then, it's settled. Some like it and some don't. Sounds about normal to me.

opjose

We always end up here. Eh?

alfredbmor

Things just keep moving, when I learned to fly there were not any flight sim available, now the people have that advantage and they can step from a traditional trainer easily. Particularly the PTS could be a good trainer for someone that has had some time at the sim (As it has been mentioned). In the event of a newbie with out any experience in RC (No Flight Sim) then I would encourage him (her) to buy a traditional trainer instead of a Mustang PTS.