Here is what the part for private land mobile services of the FCC says about repair of same.

So there is no such FCC license for this, certified means jus that, certified by someone, it is not the same as an FCC license.

It is illegal for the consumer/ user to change the TX crystal.

Sport, please do not lead others astray on this issue. I realize you are reading the regs and trying to draw conclusions, but you are off base here. You cannot change the TX xtal, even if it is accessible from the outside of the radio. You do need to be certified/qualified to perform the xtal change. If you want to change freqs on the TX, get a synth based radio or a radio that uses modules. You can swap user accessible FCC certified modules without an issue.

There are good reasons for this restriction. As opjose mentioned with his misfortune, all may seem to work fine with your stuff after you changed the TX xtal, but you might be throwing out RF crap on other channels. If someone broke federal regulations, and by that act, caused me to lose my property, and is unwilling to make things right, I would probably file a lawsuit if the loss was substantial.

OP, as others have said, yes, a xtal can go bad. As others have posted, try replacing the RX xtal, and if the RX still doesn’t work, send both the RX and TX in for service.

I never said otherwise!!!! Go back and read the post. I said the Futaba site is outdated because the FCC license is no longer required. They got rid of a bunch of radio repair license requirments years ago, about the only things requireing licence is broadcast and aviation radios. However that does not negate the requirement that those repairs be made by a certified repairman. I believe that presently the certification is coming from the manufacture not FCC. And I still say the radio manufacture needs to start putting that crystal inside the radio! I am not so sure that the FCC can do anything about the user changing it, the reg is clear as mud on that. I did not say it is wise to change it.

I know you don't think I know what I am talking about, so I have linked where the FCC says when radio license is required.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/wncol.html

Note you do not need a license to repair R/C. However you may not modify them, I think changing the crystal is a modification, at least if it bleeds into other channels.

Sport_pilot,
I'm not quite sure what you are looking at. You state that the only things requiring license is broadcast and aviation radios. If you are speaking about licenses to operate the radio then you are correct, there is no requirement by the FCC for us to have a license to operate our R/C radios. But this is not what we are referring to in the servicing of these radios. The FCC has not done away with thier requirements that I posted earlier in this thread. FCC Regulation 95.221 specifically covers having your R/C radio serviced. If interested you can find the actual regulation here [link]http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/pdf/47cfr95.221.pdf[/link]

This is the current regulation covering this matter and it is identical to what I posted earlier. The regulation states that the radios need to be serviced by somebody who is certified to perform the required work.
There is no confusion in the FCC regulations on this matter. If a crystal is changed in a RC transmitter in the United States it needs to be done by a person who is certified to work on these radios. This is required in order for the radio to be properly re-tuned to the correct frequency after the new crystal is in the radio. This is done for a very specific reason, and it has nothing to do with the possibility of interfering with somebody else's plane (although this is pretty bad in itself). The 72 Mhz frequencies that we use are very near other frequencies used for commercial purposes, television broadcasting immediately comes to mind although there are other uses as well. If a crystal is changed in a radio and it is not properly re-tuned there is a very real possibility that the radio will start to interfere with the commercial operations on adjacent frequencies. If this happens I can assure you that a visit from FCC officials isn't too far behind that. Fines for interfering with a commercial operation like this can range up to $10,000.

Trying to argue that this isn't required really does a disservice to those coming in to this hobby, and this is why we're not going to argue this point. Many just entering this hobby rely on this forum to give them accurate information, and many tend to take what is said in here are correct and accurate. That is one reason why we strive so hard to make sure that what is put out is correct here. So if we start arguing that this requirement on changing of crystals doesn't need to be done at a shop some may believe that and get themselves in trouble down the line. The FCC regulations are clear in this matter and we're not going to sit here and argue the point.

Ken

Sport, I know exactly what you are talking about, I have inside track to the FCC, which is why I posted. So Futaba used “licensed” instead of the more accurate certified/qualified phrase. You know what would happen if they said “qualified” instead of licensed… a bunch of peeps that jump started a car successfully once will believe they are qualified to change the xtal. I understand that technically the Futaba doc is wrong, so be it, the net perception is still correct in that users should not be changing their TX xtals.

The reg says certified, not license. The FCC has no such license, it states clearly on the link provide that it is not required. There is no requirement for repair licence for private land mobile services. So of course there is no such licence. Certified is not the same thing as a license. To argue there is just shows you don't know the differance. Read some of the posts in the radio forum. Actual technicians are saying the same thing.

Again I never said this was not so. But how do you get certified? Obviously not the FCC. They may be hanging their hat on factory certification.

Correct, per the regulation. I am not sure of the techical requirement, but that is another matter. But it is still wrong to have the crystals accessable, so I doubt anyone could prosecute someone for changing them. I wish they would rewrite this or stop certifying radios with accessable crystals.

RCKen, you may not like what I said above as you iterprete this as "leading the new user astray". But I have seen people chewed out for removing the crystal to prevent their transmitter from transmitting using a trainer cord with another transmitter. I understand some actually will transmit when using a cord. Possibly older radio's?

Sport_pilot,
I absolutely understand the difference between certified and licensed. I also understand that the Quote from Futaba's site may have mistated that the shop must be licensed. But, what I am trying to avoid is new people thinking that a radio does not have to go back to a shop if the crystal is changed. When you state that the requirements for a "license" has been removed some may mistake that for meaning that it doesn't have to be sent in to a shop. This is exactly what I am trying to avoid happening. When confusion is created like this it leads to somebody making the mistake and winds up in trouble because of that.

When all is said and done a crystal change in a transmitter needs to be done by somebody that can certify that they radio is transmitting on the proper frequency after the change, and retune the radio if it's not. Plain and simple, this must happen.

And yes, I agree in that I have seen people yell at other for removing the crystal. This is wrong and those doing the yelling are misinformed. There are no issues with simply removing the crystal, and in fact the same crystal can be removed and replaced with no issues to the radio. But if a different crystal (even one on the same channel) is placed in the radio it's output needs to be checked and retuned if needed.

As far as having the crystals accessible, this is a loophole that manufacturers have exploited. They will produce a case for their radios and they are sold worldwide. In most countries this is not an issue, but here in the US it is. The FCC regs stated (paraphrase here, not an exact quote) that the crystal can not be user accessible. So what the manufacturers did was to put a piece of tape or hot glue to secure the crystal in the radio, and unfortunately the FCC approved this as not being "user accessible". Yes, it's a loophole they exploited. But it doesn't override the need to send a radio in for service.

With all other considerations aside, it's just in a pilot's own interest to send a radio in if he changes the crystal. One of our members here (CGRetired) had a radio that the previous owner changed the crystal in. Instead of risking it he sent the radio in to have it checked. Since the radio wasn't retuned to the new frequency the radio was transmitting at about 1/2 the power it should have been. So had he flown with it he could have been at risk of losing his plane.


Ken

Well I send my radio's to Radio South, about time to do so again, they have changed my transmitter crystal once. I suggest that all do the same. It only costs something like $25 plus crystal as I recall and they check out the radio as well, even replaced a switch as I recall.

So... I thought that you could change the crystal(s) safely as long as you didn't go from the high band to the low band...

Is that incorrect? (note I've never had the need to change crystals, but this is what I've been told)

If not correct, they why in the world does futaba sell crystals to retail outlets like tower?

No, this is incorrect. Any change of the transmitter crystal needs to have the the radio retuned. Even if you put in a new crystal on the same channel as your old one it needs to be retuned. This is partially because no two crystals are identical. Because of this the output of the radio needs to be retuned so that it is transmitting on exactly the right frequency and the right output power.

Ken

okay, so why does futaba sell crystals via retail? seems like if it needs retuning whenever the crystal changes that they shouldn't sell crystals through retail, right?

This is true for the Receivers and the high/low only applies to some models of Futaba receivers. Transmitters are NEVER permitted. Possible exception are those in the amateur band but you MUST have an amateur license to utilize that band legally.

Tower (and other companies) will sell anything to anyone. It is up to the buyer to determine legality or get the equipment to a shop for tuning. Example: GM will sell you a car that will go 150 MPH (Corvette). It is up to YOU to determine if it is legal to drive that speed.

They are NOT the crystal police. They also sell worldwide where they do NOT have the same regulations. Regulations are different here than in other countries for many reasons one of which is that the frequency bands are more tightly packed with users. They also sell to shops. As I said above, it is up to YOU to obey the rules. It's not illegal to buy a gun. It is illegal to shoot someone. Should they make it illegal to sell guns? Or leave it the personal responsibility of the gun/crystal buyer? A big jump in logic I know but it covers the same issue. Maybe you want to need a permit to buy a crystal?

If you think there is a LOT of room out there for everyone you may want to think again. It's quite crowded

http://www.icta.mu/images/spectrum.jpg shows how the international community has divided up the airwaves.

Ken has done a good job of explaining why it is legally required to have any changes to a transmitter be certified, be it a crystal change or some other component change/repair. As for hyflr's comments, he is correct in so far as receivers are concerned (no restrictions on crystal changing) but that does not apply to transmitters.

where you get that Bruce. You always amaze me.

Its amazing how many people read words that are not there I understood what Sport_Pilot was saying but yet so many were misreading him... well I guess that explains some of the answers and comments I've gotten to questions.

The XTALSs are not user accessible.

The FCC is constantly balancing between helping business bring products quickly/cheaply to US market and taking a hard line with enforcing the regulations. Often the FCC will allow something like the xtal being easily accessible because the manufacture ensures it will be glued in or covered with a little snap in plate… so technically, it isn’t accessible from the outside anymore. This benefits all of us as it allows for the maker to save design/support costs, i.e. cheaper radios. But, the easier access does not mean the FCC has implied the user can now change the xtal.

The FCC can and has reversed their decision on this stuff and made it retroactive if vendors or users abuse the easy access. I know of one case where a hand held mobile radio manufacturer had to recall and retrofit products because the ability for users to change the operating frequency was being abused. The FCC can revoke the type certification. Do you really want that? Making it now illegal to not only change the xtal, but illegal for most R/C users with low end radios to use them at all because certification was revoked?

The problem here is not the FCC, or their regs, or approving items that make it cheaper for the manufacture to bring them to market. The problem is users that think they know how to interpret FCC regulations and somehow conclude they can change the xtal because they found some loop hole. There is no loop hole, only incorrect and incomplete interpretations of the regs.

Google

Any one in the industry knows that any one working under a LIO can work on equipement. The LIO is responseable for their repairs. They have more to do than Police RC freq's.
(LI. Operator) who is going to go through all that trouble to check you out unless some one TURN's YOU IN. BEEN THERE DONE THAT

In my 16 years of flying, I've had 0 transmitter crystal failures, so I see no need to replace them, plus most consumers replace the radio within 5 years due to wear and tear, batteries get old, antenna's wear out and the pots as well. But never a trans crystal failure, the receivers and crystals have died time to time but they are under extreme abuse all the time. I read the FCC guidelines and sport pilot is correct, and everybody is correct as well. Yes you can repair your transmitter by yourself as long as it does not manipulate or alter the modulation of the frequency it was tuned for. If your switch dies, you can change it, if the antenna breaks, you can change it, ect,ect.... But you may not replace the crystal in the transmitter unless it is retuned to the proper frequency. If FCC was going to hand out liscenses for radio tuning then there would be a trade school course on the subject. I pay for my HVAC liscense every year and there are thousands of hours required to obtain it along with schooling, you just can't apply for the liscense, so the FCC has thier guidelines to qualify any such repair facility to do repairs and they follow the FCC guidelines, they don't send the FCC money to renew a liscense, they just pay a fine if found in violation of the regulations.