Folks,

This is just an observation so please don't attack me for bringing it up...

I have noticed that every time a noobie mentions that he is teaching himself to fly, 8,345,842,375 people have to comment about how foolish that is and that the person NEEDS to link up with a club and instructor. Meanwhile, the noobie's question often goes unanswered! While the advice to seek out an instructor is NORMALLY good advice (and don't get me wrong, we should continue mentioning it), we need to remember that not everyone is fortunate enough to live in or near a city with an R/C club or two. Sometimes, a club just isn't reasonably convenient and a beginner MUST teach themselves.

Case in point: Back when I was stationed at Cannon AFB in Clovis, NM, the closest club was in Amarillo, TX; over 100 miles away. So I packed up my Falcon 56 and drove to Amarillo, only to be winded out. Subsequent weekends either yielded similar winds or other problems so I eventually gave up on the long drive and ended up teaching myself to fly back in Clovis. (Bear in mind that self-taught R/C wasn't that uncommon 35 years ago and wasn't looked down on like it seems to be today.)

So, please stop insisting that the ONLY way to learn is by joining a club. I have noticed that many beginners who mention that they are teaching themselves to fly, and then get jumped on for it, don't ask any more questions on RCU.

Harvey

It is not the only way, but the cheapest
and most effective way to learn. I'm glad
that I joined a club,which is 40 miles away.
They helped me and I have some new friends
also. I taught myself to hover my Heli, but it
cost me a lot of $$$. Clubs are Priceless. IMO

Bob

Harvey, I have never seen anyone state that joining a club is the ONLY way to learn. It is probably the BEST way assuming that the club has at least one qualified instructor. With the advent of quality simulators and a person who can learn how to operate a glow engine SAFELY by just reading... sure, self taught is very possible.

I too have noticed on occasion that the original question does not get answered. In most cases if the beginner takes the advice to join a club and get "face to face" help... their questions will be answered during that interview with much greater understanding than if it were typed here.

Dignlivn & Mr67stang,

I wholeheartedly agree that seeking out a club and/or instructor is the safest and ultimately cheapest way to learn R/C but my point is that we often forget that a club isn't always available to a beginner. Even if the nearest club is only across town, it might as well be in another galaxy to a highschooler without a car.

I'm just saying that we're not helping these guys if we insist that joining a club is the only acceptable way to learn R/C.

Harvey

Yes seeking out club help is the best and I also know there isnt always a club close. I just cant see the masses being able to learn to fly on there own. there is so much to know. the frustration level has to be real high whenever all your doing is crashing and destroying there planes. after about the second crash, I would have given up. there are the exceptions also. there are a few who can learn to fly on there own. When we sugest that people find a club on the forum, we dont know who the select few are that can teach them selves.

Draftman1,

Agreed. But sometimes our responses seem to imply that self-taught is entirely unacceptable. Granted, we should continue to encourage learning with an instructor but we should also accept that an instructor just isn't always available to all beginners; just like there isn't a hobby shop in every small town.

Harvey

Hi 5487
I had to do much of my learning alone also. I probably had over 50 crashes that required repairs on my trainer. The problem is that in a forum such as this, there is little advice that can be given to someone that is learning by himself. Once you mention the basics, after that all that is left to say is to "repair it" and try again. The student does not know enough about it to formulate proper questions. A very few pick it up quickly; I certainly was not one of them. I have taught many people to fly our models, but I rarely offer anything to someone doing it alone, unless they ask a specific, useful question. My best advice is "don't let the crashes spoil your enthusiasm". Good luck.

Another reason we mention finding a club is that many newbies don't even realize that there ARE such things as clubs.

Also, many time we hear, "There is no club in my area" but a quick search turns up two or three - they just didn't know where to look.

I have to dissagree in part to this post.
I do agree that there are circumstances that prohibit getting instruction but I dissagree that posters questions go unanswered.
There have been too many self taught people asking questions to even count and by far the vast majority do get an answer to there questions. Granted they do get the obligatory "seek out a local club" which is very good advice along with other answers that they didn't ask for. This is because the average poster that asks the questions knows nothing about RC airplanes and any additional information is an attempt to educate and help the poster be successfull.
I have seen a small number of questions go unanswered and I try to answer if I know the answer but sometimes posters will have a specific question about a certain model that no one currently on this board knows anything about so we can't answer.
Bottom line is we do try to answer all questions that we are able to answer.

I was one of those that without boring you with a long story wasn't able to get to a club on the days they taught beginners so went it alone so can understand it doesn't suit everyone.
I'd still advise people to get help if the can as it'll make it a less costly experience but as I've done it myself and now fly full 3D there's no reason others can't do exactly the same BUT a lot of that is down to being good advice as well in terms of selecting planes to suit their ability and where they're going to fly and also taking into consideration for their maiden flight they're going to be standing in the middle of a field all on their own with an untrimmed plane and their heart in their mouth not knowing what to expect.

My 1st hand launch the plane just went up and over my head behind me in the wind and heaven knows how as it was dissapearing in the distance but I managed to get it down into a tree without any damage - actually I forgot my 1st plane which was my Xmas present and lasted all of 4 seconds on boxing day so this was my second attempt having got myself a Simulator as well !!!!

Not only that but people in here can give good advice as to what plane is going to give them the greatest chance of it lasting more than 3 weeks but also with a cheap FMS Simulator for £17 with a USB TX it's only going to save a fortune in the long run and one of the best investments anyone wanting to go it alone is ever going to make !!!!!!!

I do get fed up with some of the die hards that THE ONLY WAY from the start is a 4 channel Balsa trainer as well as whilst I totally agree it's going to fly a lot better than a Super Cub or a EasyStar, handle wind better and may overall be a better plane in the long run if it gets destroyed in the meantime the newbie may never get to see the benefits as they get disillusioned and give up the hobby.

Just my 10p's worth and rant for a Tuseday afternoon !!!!!

This needs to be qualified a bit. Many of the RTF park flyers, some might call toys, etc., are intended for self teaching. This is acceptable not because they are easy to learn on, but because they have low potential for secondary damage. This is very different than self teaching on a 40-60 sized glow trainer which could easily cause death. Self taught on any craft of appreciable size or speed is generally unacceptable because of the potential to do major property damage, dismemberment, and death.

Seriously, if someone gets miffed and stops posting on RCU when told to essentially find a safe flying location and find a knowledgeable instructor, then they are a dangerous person by definition and should be dealt with accordingly. I want to learn how to shoot firearms, but the gun club is too far away, why can’t I just teach myself to do that at the school yard?

A club/instructor is always available; the question is convenience. I cannot in good conscious suggest anything other than a beginner needs to find a flying club and instructor.

And see, this is exactly my point. If we continue with this mindset that a club/instructor is ALWAYS available and the ONLY way to learn, we're not helping those guys who can't, for one reason or another, hook up with one.

Guys, I am not proposing that we steer beginners away from clubs. Nor am I suggesting that we stop persuading beginners to seek out a good instructor. What I am saying is that when a beginner writes in with a question and also mentions that he has no one else available to answer the question, the first ten or twenty responses almost always imply (and sometimes not just an implication) that the guy is foolish for trying to learn R/C outside of a club. Often to the point that the guy's original question doesn't get addressed. Did anyone notice that the guy's location was Boondocks, MT (population 3, 1 of which is his dog)?

There are probably a good number of us here on RCU who learned to fly R/C before it became a "common" hobby. We successfully learned to fly on our own even though we got a lot of experience with Devcon 5-Minute Epoxy and Band-Aids in the process. Therefore, it CAN be done. We need to stop inplying that only fools try it.

I wouldn't encourage learning with such a large/fast plane either; not much unlike someone who tries to learn how to ride a motorcycle by buying a 1750cc Yamaha crotch rocket. I agree that a good first plane is something small like a Park Flyer.

You're forgetting that millions of farmboys have successfully (and safely) learned to handle firearms by plinking at soda cans behind their barn.

Harvey

I agree with you Harvey, but you should also notice that for every RCU member who says, "You MUST get instructions", there will be two or three that say, "Start out with A Super Cub, Diablo, or the like"

Minnflyer,

I agree with you. I'm just trying to point out to some posters that a club and/or instructor isn't available to EVERY beginner and to make that beginner feel foolish for even asking isn't helping that beginner or our hobby. Heck, I wonder how many of those who blindly insist that every beginner learn from an instructor actually learned to fly by first crowhopping their own trainer in the school parking lot on weekends?

Harvey

I do not disagree with the initial post. Some people really do not have access to 'in person' help.

But I have seen tons of these: "I want to start flying model planes and there's NOBODY around here who flies RC, so what do I do first?"

I find the zip code for their town and look at the AMA site, and there is a 100+ member club in the town. I think it would be totally wrong to make much of a reply without at least mentioning to the person that he is not as isolated as he thinks he is.

From a one sentence post, we get virtually no info. I guess the first reply could be a list of probing questions to find out:
> Budget
> Transportation status
> etc

Joining or seeking help from a club should ALWAYS be the first response to a newbie.

While a club may be a bit far from them, even an initial trip or two to a remote club for instruction and aid will make all the difference between a frustrated flyer throwing their money away versus someone who has a good chance of sticking with it.

If a newbie has to drive 80 miles to get to a club, then spending the effort and doing this a couple of times may be all the more valuable.

I agree with most of what you've said here. I took the traditional route, with a 60 size glow trainer, a club and an instructor. And a lot of simulator time.

There is a lot of advice that can be offered to a beginner other than "find a club and an instructor" that will help them get started and at least minimize the frustration of early failures and the expectations of "how hard can this be?". I think the advice offered should be along the lines of "find a club and instructor, but if you can't or won't here's the best way to maximize your chances of success and minimize the potential hit to your wallet..."

5487.... you missed part of my point. The club and instructor are always available. Anyone that is irritated by the notion that they should practice their hobby in a safe environment shouldn't be in the hobby. If one chooses not to be inconvenienced by safety, again, I have issues with that. If you can't get yourself to a safe location to participate in hobby "X", then hobby "X" is probably not an option for you.

Granted, an experienced pilot knows a club/instructor is not required to fly safely. However, a beginner pilot doesn't even know how to fly, so how would they know what a safe location would be? The next best thing would be to try to explain to them the flying area requirements, but I think we can probably find many examples here on RCU where beginners have grossly underestimated the size of the space required, the damage a plane can cause, etc.

40-60 sized trainers are extremely common. Many, myself included, learned on such a craft. Any experienced pilot would consider them kitty cats, but they can still do quite a bit of damage. Your high end motorcycle analogy really doesn’t apply. That would be like a newbie getting a turbine, or a 40% gasser… totally different. The point here is what we consider a “standard� trainer has the potential to do a lot of damage, so safety is important.

As for farm boys, I come from a farm boy state just north of you. Sure, farm boys learned to shoot safely… way out in BFE, with pa looking over their shoulder until they were reasonably safe. The same should be done with any R/C plane of any consequence. Now I’ll give you that if you live in BFE, and you have access to a couple of square miles of land with permission to fly over, go for it. But to everyone else, find a club and the guy named pa.

My major concern here is the potential for unsafe flying to impact the hobby, either locally or at a larger scale, for all of us. While safety issues can have many sources, I think it is hard to deny that beginners present a large risk. Don’t interpret this as I don’t want beginners, I personally spearheaded several programs at my club aimed at obtaining and retaining new pilots/members. But the risk needs to be managed. I like to fly. I fly high powered and potentially very dangerous planes. I’d hate to see local government restrict R/C plane because some beginner who just bought a plane at the LSH flew off a gravel road just outside of town without permission and killed someone’s cow, or whatever.

I am not going to say that the only way to learn to fly is with an instructor but I am going to state that it is probably the smartest, safest and least costly way to learn to fly. An instructor can look at an aircraft and resolve major construction or set up problems that will escape a newbies notice. Second a good seasoned instructor should be able to preserve an airplane overwhelms the student and he gets confused. the instructor will keep the airplane from destroying property or hurting people in the vicinity. an instructor will also help to foster good and safe handeling in the pits and demonstrate proper adjustment to engines. an instructor can also help teach quick field repairs. An instructor is also a security blanket for the student, if conditions change or the student gets confused he knows that he has someone next to him who can save his aircraft. One of the axiums of teaching I subscribe to is that fear of crashing will all but assure that one will crash. So to restate my opinion an instructor is not the only to learn but it is the smartest way to learn

I understand where you are coming from, but the bigger of the problems is in the safety factor. There are many small safety things to take into consideration, not just the flying part. Radio setup, control throws, how not to get your face ripped off. Stuff that with experience can seem second nature, but gaining the experience the hard way could be painful, and not just to the person trying to learn. I will always encourage someone to seek experienced help before trying to fly just because of the above.

The other thing to consider is that some questions just aren't that easy to answer remotely. Other times, it is so clear that a guy is in over his head, trying to help him online isn't the most effective. In those cases, a person is often better served by getting real live help from a more experienced builder/flyer. This could be at a club or just another individual in the area.

I will agree though that there are times when people tend to get up on their soap box and brush over the original question that is asked. I've also noticed that soem people can say things in a way that are less than encouraging to a beginner. I've noticed this at my excuse for a LHS too. A couple guys in their are so proud of their "RC knowledge" that they say things ina way that appears if they are trying to assert their superiority and end up chasing more people away from the hobby than attracting them.

The bottom line is that a local club with help from experienced people is THE BEST way to learn to fly successfully. This is not possible 100% of the time though so yes, there will be some people who must go it alone.

And I agree with that 100%. And I also agree with the poster that said the typical first comment to someone looking to get started should be "find an instructor". That's the route I took earlier this year and I have no doubt that I solo'd as quickly and damage free as I did because of club members who helped me set up the plane, and instructor who calmly showed me the basic moves. The other thing that I think is key is seeing what a proper approach looks like so you've got that "picture" in your mind on crosswind and the turn to final. Having the proper persepctive on what relative position of the plane, runway, bank angle and attitude looks like on a good approach is invaluable. It's pretty tough to do that without watching somone who knows what they are doing.

I learned pretty quickly which of the 3 hobby shops close to me could help and which could or would not. When shopping for my transmitter I called the local chain hobby shop, asked the clerk who answered to connect me with someone to talk about transmitters. When I asked if they had a Futaba 7C 2.4 GHz transmitter in stock, and what was the price, the response I got from whoever she transferred me to was "what's that?"

The other two shops are not franchises and are owned by guys who are members of the club I joined. They go out of their way to be helpful and have been a great source of assistance and information.

In my neck of the woods, Clubs are easier to
find than LHS's. There not close but they are
out there. People here led me to the AMA site
where I located the Club i'm In. The Wright
Brothers taught themselves, after that there where
Instructors.

Bob

I taught my self to fly and im damn proud to prove to the haters that it is really easy to fly If you go into it knowing what to do. Get FMS (Free simulator) and a cheap esky $23 computer transmiter found on ebay or serch google for clear view and they have some for sale. 2-3 hours on the simulator just to get used to the oriantation and the control movment and you are good to go!