Ok, as you know just recently picked up my P-51 from being built at my hobby shop, not only did they rip me off on the fee to build it so I will be going to a new local hobby shop I found on hangar 9s site that also has a outdoor and indoor dirt track for rc cars nitro. But anyway I noticed on my p51 fuel on the left wing and a slight amount of dirt on the tires, WHICH means that plane was flown. They had no reason to start that plane, that is my job to tune it, and lets say he said he started it to tune it up, was it really needed to taxi it to get the wheels dirty??? NO...So now technically I have a USED P-51 and the top flite with a knight 100 and all of the electronics was NOT cheap, they charged me 300$ too build it and the other new hobby shop said it would of costed me 100$ and had it back the next day, well it took the other hobby shop 2 WEEKS, yes 2 weeks to build it, I think it took them MUCH less but instead he was being so kind to fly it for me without me knowing. What should I do? I am totally FUMING and need advice before I go in there. Thank you all.

Was this a kit or an ARF?

Technically, there is nothing you can do, but complain to them and start doing business elsewhere. I would not expect to recieve any kind of refund. They set a price and you paid it. There is no way possible that you can prove that you did not get the dirt on the wheels and fuel in it after you got it home. Their word against yours. Chalk it up as a learning experience and enjoy your new plane. Next time shop around for the best price. Was not trying to sound harsh. Just laying out some cold hard facts.

I have assembled 5 ARF planes this summer. The last plane I assembled was a smaller version of one of my bigger ones, and the process was almost identical. It still took me like 4 full days. Normally it takes 2 weeks to build a plane when you have other things to do as well. If I gave someone 4 full days of my time plus supplied necessary materials and used my own tools I would expect more than $300 if I were doing it for a business.

I can't imagine the other hobby shop could really get your ARF plane together in a day - it was not an RTF (ready to fly) plane, was it?

I don't think your plane being flown is totally unreasonable. I probably wouldn't be too excited about it either, but from his perspective - if he's going to build your plane and charge you $300 he probably wanted to make sure it worked right and you wouldn't have any problems.

Not trying to say you are wrong or anything - $300 is a lot of money and it's exciting to start up a plane for the first time, but you hired the man to do a job maybe without knowing all the details first.

You now have a fully built and working airplane - fly it and have fun!

Ok, thank you all for the input, your right it is my word against his. Live and learn is what I will take from it.

Didn't you negotiate the cost up front? Who wouldn't do that? Did you tell them not to run it or fly it? They may have thought they were doing you a favor by getting it all set up right. I'm seeing a LOT of blame on your end here. Anything about the agreement in writing?

Maybe he flew it to trim it out, sounds logical to me? As far as the build goes he can charge as much as he wants, this is America. Consumers set prices not retailers. Why did you not let the other shop do it for less, did you shop around? If the plane is put together correctly I would not sweat it. Now that I think about it all four of my planes the first tank of fuel was burned with someone else at the sticks, the only difference is I was there to watch nervously.

By the why I would highly recommend building your own planes whether an arf or kit. You will learn much about how and why the plane does what it does. The first arf I assembled was a Sig Kadet LT-40 and I learned things during that build I use every time I am at the field. This hobby is about "tinkering", might as well learn while putting together your first plane!

Your right blazer, I would not mind having him fly it because he does have 32 airplanes and is one of the best RC pilots in Illinois so I will let it go. And I will build my own from now on, even though I have not attempted yet to build one but I am sure people on here would be willing to help on steps that I have trouble with. I think I will start with building and putting together a Ready to fly by installing the receiver and tuning it up all myself and then move onto a ARF like my P51 only next will be a TF At-6 Texan that I will build myself and like you said that will teach me more than I could possibly imagine. Thanks for the suggestion it did put alot of ideas in my head.

I assembled my first ARF this past spring; it was my first RC plane experience. Everyone on this forum was a tremendous help! And I learned SO much about planes, setup, construction, repairs, etc. It was fun and educational (geez, how often do you get to say that?) and totally worth it.

Now that you have a nice plane that flies, I say go for an ARF, not RTF. Figure it's a 2-3 week project for your first one, and when you put it all together and fly it, it feels great!

Best thing to do is stick with one of the well known brands - Great Planes, Hobbico, Sig, as they have better instructions than some of the cheaper planes (CMP, etc).

If you haven't built any plane before, a Top Flite AT-6 might be too ambitious of a project. It takes some skill to assemble an RTF and just a bit more for an ARF; but a different skill set to build a kit. I built a Sweet stick and Falcon 56, thirty years ago when I was 16~17 years old. No computer forums to help back than, just patience, studying plans, reviewing the instructions and careful building. Winter's coming. You have 5 months to build a kit. I had built some free flight models before those. Build yourself a Sig kit ... 4 Star 40 or Something Extra.

Jim

I think he's talking about the ARF, Jim. It really doesn't take any skill to assemble an ARF. Just the ability to follow instructions. Some of the purists in this hobby would be rolling over in their (soon to be) graves, hearing that an ARF requires skills to build.

Jacked, are you happy with the plane? Does it fly well? Is the engine properly broken in? If so, I wouldn't be too upset about things.

Pray that no one reads your post from your local area.

So you're upset that you had one of the best RC pilots in Illinois assemble, test fly, and trim you're new airplane for you, at a rate of probably $50/hour or less?

Put yourself in his position. What would your time be worth? The lowest bidder isn't always the best. I'd be willing to bet that the other shop would not have taken the time to make sure the plane was properly balanced (the only way to check is by flying), the engine was tuned, the control throws were set in the correct range, any covering wrinkles were heated out, edges sealed, and any one of a hundred other things experienced pilots do with ARFs.

I'd say you got a bargain!

Brad

Oh, I don't know about that, Mike. There are some ARFs that are far more tedious than a simple Sig Four-Star kit, trust me. I just spent the last month working on one. The guy with the Mustang may want to count his blessings, because that $300.00 probably saved him a lot of hair, and perhaps a few trips to the couch.

NorfolkSouthern

I would not be surprised if they fly everything they build so that when somebody crashes on maden flight they can tell the customer that the plane fly fine and the crash is not the fault of the builder.

I don't understand your complaint. I'm quite surprised that you would be upset about this. A good friend of mine runs a hobby shop. He is a great builder and a great pilot. If he were to build something for me, I'm sure he would have test flown it before handing it off to me, or given it to me with the knowledge that he did or did not test fly it. Consider yourself lucky that he did test fly the thing and that you probably got something that is truly ready to fly.

With that said, I build my own.. either kit or ARF. And, yeah, some ARF's do require some level of skill. Go ahead and "slap" one together and see if the tail feathers are square with the wings once the epoxy is set.

CGr

Op is definitely being unreasonable, because you did not get ripped off.

It takes an inexperienced builder about 10 hours to put together a typical ARF. I'm sure the guy at the shop did it faster, but he saved you the 10 hours. Then he set it all up, and took on the risk himself of test flying it for you. A bad connection or radio problem would have cost HIM an airplane, not you. Not to mention that he likely trimmed it out, set the control throws properly, tuned the engine, and got the CG right. All told, he probably saved you 15 hours or more plus the risk of a bad first flight. I wouldn't do all of that for $300. He charged you a reasonable fee for the work he did, and in return you got a plane that is a proven good flyer that doesn't need anything done to it besides minor tweaking to suit your taste. Do you really think the shop that would assemble your plane for $100 would give you that?

I used to build kits and assemble ARFs for people but the money part of the deal was all up front unless changes were made as I was building. ARFs were A flat fee for trainers. My own advanced instructor got me into always doing the maiden flights on anything I built or assembled unless I was told not to by the owner. Reason is: at one club the flight instructor did the maiden on one of the planes he built and crashed it. He stated to the owner that the plane was assembled wrong and the CG was way off. It just couldn't be A loose nut on the controls?? Anyway, from that point on we both always did the maiden flight. If we could we did it when the owner of the plane was there so there was no question the plane could fly.
Mike, I just finished assembling A Nitroplanes ARF Extra 330. Due to the Chinglish instructions or lack there of, it is one ARF that would jump up and hurt A first time assembler. Not to mention the missing parts that only A builder would have in there shop.{screws} Outstanding plane as far as flying goes though. I assembled it for A student. JOE!!!! You should take A look at this plane, it's the 90 size {60 to me} and it flew the complete IMAC without A bobble. Powering it with A Saito 100.
Gene

I'll jump in here as well. I've built many kits and assembled a lot of ARF's for people for hire. I let them know right up front that I will do a maiden flight on the plane to ensure that everything is working right, and to make any adjustments that need to be done. If a customer doesn't agree to that I won't put the plane together, plain and simple. Why would I insist on this? As was stated above, just putting a plane together is only half of the battle. It's not considered a safe plane until it has been tested and any adjustments made. I test fly the plane because I want to give somebody the best product that I can possibly give. But there is another reason as well. The builder/assembler is responsible for that plane, and the quality of it. If the plane is given blindly to person and it crashes then they can say it was my fault. As somebody mentioned above, if it's been test flown they can't blame it on the plane.

IMHO you got a great value for $300 and you had this done by a shop that cares about their customers a great deal. I would be wary of the one that only wants $100 to assemble it.

Ken

What should you do? Send the hobby store that charged you only $300 to assemble, tune, trim, and test fly a Top Flite P51 Mustang a "thank you" note.

The .60~.90-size Top Flite Mustang P-51D ARF should take 18 to 25 hours minimum just for basic assembly. Add in the time it took for adjusting the control surface and throttle trims, basic radio setup and testing, basic engine break-in and setup, and any time actually spent flying the plane, and they probably collected $8 per hour for expert assembly and tuning.

You got a bargain, so show a little gratitude.

A little small for my liking, but VERY tempting! If I can get rid of the little Venus, this would be a GREAT replacement, and a great first four stroke. Just to relate to the amount of effort that goes into these planes - I avoided Nitro Models planes like the plague due to their instructions - or lack thereof - even though the prices are amazing. I am about to assemble my 6th plane this year, and after that I FINALLY think I'm ready to attempt assembling one of their planes.

I don't charge people to assemble their planes, nor do I want to, but the amount of time it takes is worth much more than $300 to me.

Not trying to scare you away from building planes - it takes time, but it is VERY fun and fulfilling and worthwhile. They are fun to start, and I'm usually ready for them to be done just about when they are done, then I fly for a month and am ready to start something new

My question is can you handle this plane yourself. If you haven't assembled even an arf, then do you have the amount of experience needed to fly your new mustang? Usually people with alot of flight time has some experience putting planes together.

One thing that I can say I've learned about putting together ARF's is, when you start getting tired of tinkering with it, drop what you're doing and come back to it later. I know people love building planes, but I don't care for it much, I'd rather just fly them. So I've noticed that when I start getting restless which is usually about an hour of non-stop work, I start rushing things and don't really pay attention to detail. So like I said before, I will work on a ARF and as soon as I get that feeling I just leave the room and watch TV or something. And usually it only takes about 30 minutes or so and I feel refreshed and start taking my time again. My last ARF turned out really nice. I can usually get an ARF together in about 5 days if I have everything I need, thats about 2 hours each day.

Jacked69,

If I decipher your rant correctly you had a local hobby shop professionally assemble a Top Flite P51 ARF including the installation of a Saito 100, all of the electronics, adjust all of the control throws (including flaps, throttle linkage, retracts), cut out the cowl, test fly the plane, and make final trim adjustments with a two week turn around time for $300.
After the fact ... a different hobby shop said they would have done the job with next day delivery for $100.
Have I interpreted the fragments of your rant correctly ??

None of your posts in this thread have indicated that the original deal (that both you and the hobby shop agreed to) was changed (in fact you have avoided answering that question) so it appears the hobby shop provided the services they agreed to at the price you agreed to pay.
For this plane with everything setup and ready to fly I personally think $300 is more than fair to you.

Maybe the test flight was not spelled out as being part of the deal, but it seems reasonable for the hobby shop to do this for all of the reasons that have already been posted.

I know you are beginner and you have no concept of what is involved to get this plane (or any plane for that matter) ready to fly ... you should be very very grateful that you did not find the other place that allegedly would do it over night for $100 ... this would most definitely be a case of getting what you paid for.
No one in the hobby shop business that knows what they are doing would agree to put this plane together for $100, much less with next day delivery.
Just the fact that they offered to do it for that price and that schedule would tell anyone with any experience at all that they do not know what they are doing.

You asked ........ "What should I do?" .............and someone else said ..... "Pray that no one reads your post from your local area".

I think you might consider taking that under advisement.