Hi,
This is my first post, so I'll tell you a little about myself and my limited experience in this hobby.

My first airplane kit was a .20 trainer. I didn't know much about r/c planes and got most of my info from the local hobby shop (they really pushed the sale on that one) and a few magazines. It was really fun to build and I learned a lot in the process. However, like most beginners I suppose, I didn't realise how hard it would be to setup correctly and fly. To make an embarassing story short, I brought it to a local soccer field, took-off, it climbed very fast at full throttle, I turned, probably tip stalled (still unsure what happenned), went inverted, in panic I pulled the elevator and crashed it full throttle into the ground. Took months to build it and a few seconds to completely destroy it. The motor was broken and the plane was in hundreds of pieces, and so far I only had about 10 seconds of flight experience. But I didn't give up, because as strange as it sound, those 10 seconds were actually worth it.

I realised I needed a smaller plane for my small field, less dangerous, less expensive, slower and easier to repair. Discovered the tower hobbies web site and ordered an HOB Stealth Sport (.049 park flyer with ailerons and elevator). It crashed many times, the twin tail booms always breaking, but a few repairs later I was able to fly it successfully.

That was an incredible experience. I could do rolls and bank turns (clumsily I admit), and almost loops. It always stalled in the middle of the loop, probably too heavy with my 750mah battery and standard electronics, I didn't know better at the time. I kept flying low to have the horizon line well in my field of view, it caused more crashes but was much easier for me to fly that way. A few successful flights later the cox motor stopped working completely (it never really worked correctly anyway, stopping in mid-air for no reason). Then I stopped flying basically because I had enough of the messy, noisy, and unreliable reed-valve motors, and was a little short on cash.

Now, a few years later I want to get back into the hobby. I just found the RCU forums and reading a few posts here got me hooked again :-) I intent to start with an unpowered sailplane, then an electric, and later a Heli.

My first logical choice as a beginner was to get a GP Spirit ARF, but emotions spoiled logic: I REALLY wanted ailerons so ended up buying a Spirit Elite ARF instead. I also bought a great Futaba 9CAF that I hope to use for an electric heli eventually.

I just finished setting up the glider this week, and I am not sure how to start. I intend to try it in a large park nearby that has a grass field about 600 by 600 feet. There is water north and west of the field, and forest east and south.

Do you think this field is adequate?

How high should I throw it for my first flight for trimming?

Is there a way to calculate the stall speed of my glider before trying it?

What altitude do I need to recover from a stall?

How do you recommend I set the flaps for takeoff? and for landing?

I have setup the Spirit Elite as recommended in the manual, control throws, CG, hook location... Do you have any suggestion for this setup to make it easier for a beginner?

Any recommended mixing I should start with?


Thanks a lot!

If you throw it, you will probably break it. I have seen more new gliders being thrown to trim get broken because they go straight up, stall and come straight down.

It would really help to find someone to help you. If you can not, find a long shallow hill to throw it from. Don't throw it too hard, just straight away. Make sure it is ballenced first. I fly that plane, the build up version, not the ARF, but they are the same basically. It will tip stall if you slow it down. It will not take much of a crash so you want to be easy with it. If there is a little wind coming up the hill, it will glide better, but don't turn back to the hill with the wind at the tail. It can stall fast that way. Don't ever fly with wind down the hill. If no hill, a winch launch would be the best, but with someone that can help you trim it and everything. Lots can go wrong. If you just chuck it on a histart and stall it, it drags it till the cord is all in and pieces are scattered forever.

As I stated, find help if you can. It is easier to find someone than to keep fixing it. If not, start on a hill with no obstructions. It will be worth it. Your field would be ok for a histart later, but not at first. Throwing it to test it will just break it, and throwing it hard to get high enough to do anything is impossible. The pros can do it, but a beginner can't. You WILL break it if you try.

Hope that helps some.

If you do not get an experianced glider pilot to help and you cannot find a reasonable slope with the wind flow up the hill then your first choice will be the toss test flight, there are no other options beside Hi start/winch/power pod.

The park you mentioned is entirely adaquate for a simple hand toss. Grass of course is ideal for this I would reccomend someone besides yourself to launch so that you will be prepared on the sticks. Launching by yourself is not difficult but only for someone with some experiance, Here in lies a difficulty. Most folks even newer RC flyers are overly timid on the launch resulting in a stall at release. Another common problem is launching in a nose high attitude (OK on a winch or hi start to a point of course). This will result in an immediate climb to a stall. Its really a no brainer just a good firm toss absolutely level and not nose up will work just fine Your job will be to just keep the airplane from ballooning up at the launch and to keep the wings level till landing. The landing actually will require no additional effort other than keeping the wings level. you will be shocked at how far this thing glides so do not try to rush a landing it will do better by itself and of course only do this on a calm day and make sure you have every avaliable inch of the field in front of you.

Hi start is the most common option for folks without a ridge site and they work fine but require some room and two people. I would not suggest a hi start untill you have seen it done. Like Flyboy has urged, Get help.

I am currently prpareing a Characture glider bash of a Kadet Senior to be aero towed behind the Kadet Senior in my Avitar and am nearing the first tests of the glider Senior which will be on a hi start.

John

I thank you both very much for your help and advices.

There is a grass hill on the southern edge of that park, I think it will be perfect. Now I just need to wait for the wind and weather to cooperate with my plans.

My Stealth Sport was hand tossed, so I have an idea what to expect. The first time I was tossing it very hard and high, so it would balloon up and stall before I could even touch the sticks. I thought I wasn't tossing it high enough or hard enough, it just made things worse :-) I eventually got it by tossing it level with some down elevator. My only fear now is that I got used to the Steath Sport being able to recover from a stall in about 12 feet, I don't expect to have that luxury with the glider.

I did buy a small hi-start from dynaflite when I ordered my glider. It's only 25ft of 5/16 rubber. I'll try to get as much info as I can before trying it. The thought of "pieces scattered forever" gives me a unpleasant dejavu feeling.

I'll concentrate on the hand toss off the hill for now :-)

Thanks

I fly electric parkflyer, but have many glider pilots in my club. Here is the advice they give.

They always hand throw their planes before flying for the day. As you said, they take a few steps then throw it level. If it is trimmed anywhere near right, it should just float out for 50-100 feet.

Make sure you have the center of gravity where the mfg says it should be. Better to be slightly nose heavy then slightly tail heavy. Adjust the CG till it is just right and the plane glides off level and long.

After the successful hand tosses and consistant results, use the high start, but only at partal strength. And, if there are mulitple hook points on the plane, use the one most forward. This will give you the lowest, most stable launch. Make sure you hold the plane level when you release it and point it just slightly up for the first few trys. You just want a "little" more than you can do with the hand toss.

As you gain confidence, stretch the high start more each time. Then when you are really confident, move back to the center hook point, and on and on.

The key is to move up slowly, get the trim right and get the feel for the high start. Don't go full blast all at once.

ALWAYS LAUNCH INTO THE WIND. ALWAYS!!!!! EVEN AIRCRAFT CARRIERS LAUNCH JETS WITH CATAPULTS INTO THE WIND!!

But remember, you bought it to fly it. Get that bird up in the air soon. It is better to crash and fix then to hang that plane in the garage perfect and never been flown.

did it !

I went to the field last week and tossed it off the hill. The controls were less responsive than I expected, except the elevator. I was a little scared to stall so I was going really fast. I was struggling to keep it level against the smallest gusts of wind, but nothing bad happened.

I landed it a moment later without problem. It seemed to stabilize itself when close to the ground (!?!?), I don't know why, maybe because of the slower speed?

I tossed it about ten times, getting better every time, no crash, only 2 hard landings but nothing broken. This is great! I'll to try the hi-start this weekend!

Congratulations Cynic

A simple hand toss off a hill side can be so enjoyable. The reason the aircraft seemed to stabilize and float much further than you thought is that the glider started to feel the benefits of 'ground effect' as it neared the ground. Any aircraft (this includes helicopters also) when it gets within about half wingspan of the ground there is a subtle change in the airflow below the wing where the downward flow under the wing is influenced by ground contact and this greatly increases the efficiency of the wings which results with a glider in a much better glide angle or in a power plane flown very low in extended range.

There is a famous incident that occured in 1954 I believe with a Pan AM Boeing 377 Stratocruiser with a full load of passengers from Hawaii to San Francisco. During that period these airplanes had a history of failing hollow steel blade propellors and this occured at the point of no return (half way) and the prop took with it most of the engine nose case and a good part of the cowling. To maintain altitude at a slower speed of course was no problem but now because of the added drag and higher power settings on the other three there was insufficient fuel to make land in either direction. The Captain an avid sailplane pilot and aware of the effect droped down to within thirty feet of the surface and because of his quick thinking the flight half way across the Pacific was safely completed at twenty to thirty feet altitude!

You will love the Hi start. Best for someone who has done some
launchs demonstrate one for you. I have done auto tow and winch with full scale and RC hi start and winch and there is one thing to keep in mind that not many RC folks understand about these launchs. Now normally you control airspeed with pitch (elevator) and that is true, pitch up and you slow down pitch down and speed increases. But when you use any of the above launchs say a hi-start or an auto tow for example the reverse becomes true if you raise the nose your speed will increase and vice versa. As backwards as this sounds its a fact, here is what happens: under tow (anykind) the tow line is pulling you at a given speed and thats it. Now if you raise the nose sharply you dramatically increase the angle you are ascending and while the towline is pulling you at a fixed speed you are now covering a greater distance and you airspeed increases. Lower the nose to a shallow angle and the gliders airspeed slows.

The whole point of describing this is with a winch or even a hi-start if the climb angle is too great it is possible for the glider to reach a speed where the wings are pulled right off. Sooooo for your first Hi-start launch don,t stretch the rubber to maximum and keep the nose down to a relatively flat climb. Do not worry about getting altitude on the first few, that will come later. You will get plenty to be able to make one circuit.

Sorry about motor mouthing but thought you may enjoy it.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

John

I am very excited to hear of your positive experience. You see I just took delivery of my first glider, a Great Planes Spirit 2 Meter. So I will be doing exactly what you are doing.

This past weekend it was 12 hand launches to learn how to throw the plane, work on the trim and balance and to generally become familir with it.

This weekend after a dozen more hand throws, I hope to borrow a hi-start to do my first gentle hi-start launches, exactly as I described to you.

Take is slow and you will do great.

One tip on the hi-start. When you are ready to launch, be sure to give hte plane a good push to help it get up to speed. Don't make the hi-start do all the work. It will launch better AND it will take stress off the plane when you get to stronger launches.

Good luck and safe flying to you!