Hi all,
Went up the the field today, and as it turns out an instructor showed up. We got my plane fired up and set the high idle screw, got it to where we thought it was good to go. He took my radio and solo'd the plane. after taking off and continueing to climb, the engine stalled. He brought it around and landed the plane. We went back to the table to richen up the fuel. Then he took it for another solo flight and it Flew wonderful. We decided to go ahead and charge up the transmitter battery. Took a break and watched some of the other folks fly. Okay, battery all charged up. We got the buddy line hooked up and checked out the operation of his and my radio's. He decided he would take it for one more solo flight before we hooked up the trainer line. He used my transmitter. Got the plane in the air and the engine died again, same as first flight. He was bringing the plane back around to land, when he said it wouldn't steer. The plane ended up flying over the pit area just about 6 feet off the ground and crashed into a table. nothing splintered and no wing damage, rear landing btoke off, engine cowl busted loose. All easily repairable. When I got home, I turned on the Radio and receivers, rudder and ailerions are all working. It was pretty windy, so I'm thinking it just would not steer into the wind with a dead engine. Any idea why the engine would stall like that? It flew perfect on the second flight. Bad fuel? Glow plug was new. fuel I used was 15% about two years old. Something told me that I should've bought new fuel. Anyway, hope to be back up and flying by next weekend.

To me, the first thing I think is a fuel pick-up problem, an air leak in a line, air leak at the neck of the tank, vent?, H/S too lean, improper fitting fuel lines, "folded" clunk... etc.

"Flew perfect on the second flight".... was it a complete flight?

Fuel issue?... Bad fuel is bad fuel, it won't get better as the day goes on. How did you store it and was it airtight during storage away from sunlight and low humidity?

Sounds like a new engine that needs some run time. Run 3-4 tankfuls in 5 min stages at a slightly rich needle setting at full power. Was the batteries charged before you went to the field? 14-16 hrs with the wall charger before showing up, but dont just leave them on all the time. If you charged and waited a week, charge again; they might make the stuff work but in our models we are high performance users of batteries so they have to be top notch before going flying.

when you are deadstick and against the wind, you will have very little control. If it happens to me, dive a little to get some airspeed so you can control the plane. you have a bad component in the fuel system. check evrything. even a pinhole will give you a bad running engine

After we he flew the first filght, we double checked the fuel lines, all looked good, didn't see any bubbles in the carb line. The only thing I did to the plane was change the carb fuel line. it was broke at the carb, I put a larger diameter fuel line on it (3/32 I think) same diameter as the one going to the fuel can) ( all I had at the time). I told the instructor that, and he said as long as it wan't leaking it should fine. Anyway it was about 27 degrees out, should I maybe try a hotter plug? Part I don't understand is that it flew flawlessly on the second flight. Batteries were full up. Just completed recycling them 3 times, last full charge was yesterday.
Anyway, glue is drying as we speak, will be back into the air as soon as I can. Going to pull the fuel tank out while in repair and give it a good look over.

Second flight was about 8 minutes with no problems. Fuel was storedin the garage of the guy that gave me the plane. He gave me two gallons that had never been opened. I just pulled the fuel tank and gave it a good look over, everything seems fine, all hoses are connected properly. Nothing seems wrong or out of place. Will fire it up one day this week and let it burn three tanks before taking her up again. One thing the instructor didn't do was tillt the plane up at full throttle to see if it stalled. I mentioned it too him, but he didn't do it. Guess we should've done that before the last flight. Hell. even before the first flight.

3 things bother me about your post
1. you flew the airplane then decided to charge the batteries in the transmitter
2. you're using 2 year old fuel.... yes fuel can last that long just because the red stopper was in the jug doesn't mean it wasn't opened at some point
3. then question your instructor because he didn't hold the plane up..(I don't either) I hardly ever dead stick..

the dead stick issue can be the fuel, the tank, or a new engine...to properly check the tank you need to pull it from the plane...seal off a line and blow in the other line while the tank is submerged in water...watch for bubbles..
the instructor issue...you must trust his judgement..if you don't you will start to question everything he tells you...either trust him or find a new one.
the engine... if it's new..it's not uncommon for it to take up to 10 flights before it becomes reliable...you're on the right track with running it rich on the ground...then be sure to set both the low and high end needles
Good Luck

Whoa!! I wasn't questioning the instructors judgement, the crash certainly couls've been much worse! Just trying to give out at much info as I could in relation to the incident. He is no doubt a good instructor and pilot. At the end of the day I thanked him for his time and teaching as much as he did! And I did learn alot. As for the fuel, guy that gave me the plane said it had never been open. But, I will buy new fuel before I fly it again. Will also replace the fuel tank fuel lines. After my last post, I went back to the basement and rechecked the tank and line. I did find a crack in the pressure line (one that goes to the muffler) right at the fuel tank fitting. I will also follow the advise of running three tanks of fuel through it, before flying again. As for the batteries, as I stated in a earlier post they were full up when we started and after the two flights. The instructor suggested that we charge up the radio, I aasumed just to get the radio full up for two more flights. Speaking of which,my batteries are only 600 MaH NiCads, guys at the field said that I should upgrade to at least 1000 and not NiCad, What are your suggesstions?

I don't know what radio equipment you have but doesn't the TX have a led that shows the battery voltage. The leak you found in the pressure line that goes to muffler is very likely the cause of engine quiting. If tank is not pressureized it will not feed properly. I doubt if bad fuel was your problem. Different motors require different break-in if one with rings it requires lengthy break in. I find holding straight up prior to flight is worth while if it leans at all when doing this richen slightly.What plane is it? With or without ailerons. Has the C. G.been checked. Should be able to have some control even in wind unless a hurricane. Good luck next time, check that C.G.

I have a 5 chanel JR. I think the instructor said the display was reading 9.4. He took it over to his truck and plugged it in. I still think I'll buy some new fuel. The pressure line should be the top line out of the tank correct? When I pulled the tank out both lines were side by side, horizontal, not vertical. The feed hose inside the tank was moving freely and resting on the bottom. From the diagrams I've seen, The Lines are usually lined up vertically. So I'm wondering is the tank was installed side ways. There was plenty of room the flip it side ways so they are vertical, so that is what I did. She is near ready to fly again. I'm going to reinforce the engine cowl (firewall) with some balsa strips to to strengthen it up. There are no grooves that I could see in the fuse, for it to set it. Other than that the repairs have been easy. Can't wait to take it up again. Way I see it, this has been a major learning experience and I'm kinda glad it happened.

How about the receiver battery pack? You may have spent quite a bit of time with setup and ran that battery pack down. The way you described this, it sounds like you lost the "connection" with the receiver and it just plain crashed.

CGr.

Hey Staff,


Your now on the right track, new fuel,new fuel lines and more break in time.
As for the Rx battery more mAh's is better,your choice NiCad or nMhi. It's
one of those proper planning prevents piss poor performance things.
I would hold the plane vertical in cold weather to see ifit leans out too much.
A new tank may be in order also, keep the Faith and improvise and overcome.
Good luck on the next flight !

Bob

CG
Yes I"m gping to upgrade the TX and RX batteries as well. I honestly think that with the engine off, the trainer jsut would not turn into the strong wind - wind picked up alot shortly after takeoff. It's a hangar 9 Trainer and a real floater, but you most certainly could be correct which is why I think I'll upgrade the batteries as well.

Bob.
Ooraah to that!! Tank is new, but I think the NAVY had it installed side ways. Ah yes the five P's! Remember them well!!
SF
Bill

Bill,

New tank, good you're on your way. Do you have a
loaded voltmeter ? to check your Rx battery before
each and every flight.

Bob

SF

Bob,
nope, but it is on the list too. I'm thinking about the LEDS that attach to fuse.

Those are OK, but I prefer a loaded VM myself.
JMO,

Bob

Bob,
Okay, what do you mean loaded?

make sure the clunk line is not too long, letting the clunk suction itself to the tank...

Chunk Line? You mean the pressure line coming from the Exhaust?

Chunk Line is the fuel line that was the lil weight on the end. Make sure it's no touching the back of the back when the tank is held vertical and yet can't come to the front of the tank

Billd.......I just want to compliment you on your good attitude even after a bad maiden like that whatever the problem was. Its hard to come away from that with such a postive attitude. Keep it up.......you'll have days like that,but the hobby only gets better!


And as far as your problems go....sounds like it could be these.

1: bad tuned engine (highly likely)
2: RX battery died(highly likely as CG said) especially when its cold becuase battery dont hold charge very well
3: cold weather making your engine loose glow heat
4: air leak somewhere....its possible,but wouldnt explain the lost control
5: clunk line is the line inside the tank that has the heavy metal thing on the end that goes to your carb.

I'm doubting the wind made it impossible to control(experienced pilots could deal with this better then you discribe),and I'd guess your fuel is fine(just a hunch). I've often blamed fuel for being bad just because it an easy excuse for other harder to realize problems(weather,tuning,air leaks etc).

But again......I like your attitude!

That's exactly what I was thinking. A deadstick with a strong wind is going to be challenging but the plane shouldn't end up flying over the pits and hitting a table.

I also hope that "it wouldn't steer" was not his exact description of the problem.

Well Semper Fi devil dog....I am glad you found the bad line....
I'll bet you and I walked the same ground just at different times....73 to 86