As mentioned above, there is no substitute for experience, but here are a couple of points you might like to consider:-

1/ Lining up properly with the landing strip in lateral position greatly simplifies landing, as it gives you a lot less things to think about. Try a few low passes (not too low!!) along the centerline of the strip as if you were trying to land on a strip about 20 feet higher than the actual surface.

2/ Speed is the key. Too fast and it's almost impossible to stop bounces, too slow and you might suffer from a few of the dreaded effects like dropping a wing due to tip stall etc. Fly with purpose down to a height where you are happy to start the last phase of landing. By that I mean, a slightly steeper downwards angle on the approach, especially for a trainer and in wind, will give to a lot of confidence and stop you having to correct for ballooning until right before actual touch-down. Be prepared to give a few clicks of throttle to reach the start of the runway.

3/ Some trainers have the tendency to try to take off again after they seem to have landed. Many a good landing has been spoiled by the fact that a trainer has a wing that is low loading and 'wants' to fly! This is sometimes caused by the undercarriage giving the plane an upwards angle (too much incidence) , when it settles down on the landing gear, giving the wing enough incidence to try to lift off again. Make sure the model is more-or-less horizontal if you have a tricycle gear, and, in the case of a tail dragger, the tail wheel doesn't set the tail of the plane too low.

4/ I found that a simulator is a great way to get 'finger memory' to keep the plane horizontal when it passes you for the landing. The old suggestion to move the stick towards the dropped wing when the plane is coming towards you works, but you need to make the adjustments without having to think about it and that only comes with experience.

Any guitarist will tell you that he relies on his fingers 'knowing' where to go on the fretboard to form a chord, and it's much the same for flying.

In other words, if you land enough times, it's almost a dead certainty that you will suddenly 'click' and find that you start to wonder what all the fuss is about! The human mind goes through a strange learning process!

Whatever you do, and however difficult you think it might be at the moment, remember the best pilots in the world had exactly the same problems as you do now!

Hope that helped!

-David C.

Yes help in deed

I've been an instructor for many years, and (CrazyInTheAir) said it best in a previous post. Use Throttle,Elevator to control your descent. Most newer pilots tend to be in a hurry to land and force the plane down. Don't be! Come around again if it's not feeling good. This is what I teach. Keep the nose of the plane slightly up during the descent. You do this with the elevator(use short blips). Try not to let the nose fall. That's why the front gear is always bent up on a trainer. If you start stalling, shoot a very short burst of throttle into the engine, and then come back to idle. This will keep you flying. Remember, a landing is merely a controlled stall. Practice, practice, practice. Good luck!

Doug

One technique my instructor first taught me to align the plane with the runway for landing was this ... Stand totally perpendicular to the runway, and only turn your head to see the plane as it's coming in for landing. You will see the plane over your shoulder (ie your head at about 60 degrees) and try to turn into final approach leg about the same distance each time. After a couple of attempts you will get the feel of where you need to see the plane when you turn in for final approach. Not sure if this description is clear enough for you, but I was all over the runway until I did this a few times. I later saw this better described in one of the popular RC books (which also described the slip), cant recall the name but can get if you're interested.

I have been flying for about a year now and had the same problem. In fact, I still don't hit a landing perfect every time, but am reducing the number of landings where I bounce a lot. Even with all the suggestions here, the best one is practice, practice, practice. No system, or technique will work well without it. It is like everything it takes time. Also, my instructor agrees that slipping is an advanced technique and has not taught it to me yet. I'm getting close though.

Lots of great advice here, but theres one word I havent seen used yet.

ATTITUDE.

Flying is a lot about attitude, not yours but the planes. Get to know the ATTITUDE of your plane in approach mode and fly the attitude down. A big tip is also to be really gentle on your stick movements, adjust and hold to see the planes reactions or ATTITUDE. Remember at lower speeds the controls arent as responsive but just as effective.
Learning to use your peripheral vision to SEE the plane and the ground/runway takes time but you will get it.

ATTITUDE, OBSERVATION and ANTICIPATION. These three things will help you in everything in life.
Think about it !

Lancair

Well guys yesterday I flew again with my instructor, he's a great guy and a great instructor, I'm glad that I get him insted of the other guy he's not commited to teach, well...

The day was perfect not to much wind not to little, I use almost all the tips you guys gave me, Found my points of references, get the attitude thing, throttle, and pitch, I even get good approches and landings, was amazing, almost like some else was fliying, I ask: "That was me flying right?"....Yep.

Not all the landings were great, a couple without bounces and the others with only a few. I also learn how to take off, a little tricki though, may I say.

Was I wounderful flying day, we had some rain so we chat a lot, laught a lot and fly a lot, that part of the hobbie, make new good friends.

Now to practice, and practice, and try to keep the plane in one piece at the same time; hope I can solo any time soon.

I was thinking in buying something like the Futaba PA-2 or the FMA Co-Pilot, any advice

Woo hoo jucava!



Congratulations on the landings!

Don't worry about perfection just yet. Plenty of time for that, and it's almost impossible to achieve it every time anyway!

Apart from anything, it would take away the pleasure of doing a perfect landing once in a while!!

It looks like you are well on the way to relaxing when it's time to land, which is also going to improve them.

David C.

Jucava,

I bought a Co-Pilot ages ago and haven't yet got round to using it, but I know a few who have.

It certainly does what it says, and is a nice thing to play with, but I reckon if you want to get proficient at things like keeping the wings level during a landing, or recovering from a strange attitude in flight, it's best to learn to rely on yourself, and not a machine.

There are four reasons I say this.

Firstly, you are going to have to learn the reflexes needed some time anyway.

Secondly, like you have experienced with the first landings, what the Co-Pilot offers you looks difficult, but can be mastered.

Thirdly it won't be as good as you can get if you practice.

Fourthly also as you seem to have found in your recent landing experiences, it's fun and extremely satisfying to know that it is you who have succeeded and not some wizard electronic gadget.

However, as I said, it's a fun bit of kit, as long as you don't plan to use it instead of learning.

Just my 2c!

-David C.

Here's a a tip that I teach to my students. When you turn from the "base leg" into the "final leg" and you are straight down the runway, look at the wing position! If you can see the top of the wing, you are diving. If you can see the bottom of the wing, you are climbing. Try to keep the wing with the top and the bottom even (as thin as possible or like a knife). The throttle should be at idle unless you are going to land short, then "goose" the engine just enough to make sure you are going to land on the runway. Usually, with the wing in this position You'll end up slow and low to the runway right where you want to be. Just be sure to keep the wings level! Remember to move the stick to the low wing to make the wings level on the approach to the field. If everything is okay, watch the nose wheel and move the elevator stick GENTLY back and try to raise the nose wheel about 1 inch higher than the main wheels. On trainers with a Clark Y airfoil (flat bottom wing), the airplane will land all by itself. Then, you've heard this before, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, then PRACTICE some more. If you set up on the down wind leg at about 45 degrees from perpendicular (look straight across the runway) and about 2 o'clock high, give or take, chop your throttle to idle. When you find the right distance on the down wind leg, you should be able to glide down wind, base leg, final approach and landing without ever touching the throttle again unless you have too much of a head wind. This will simplify the controls to only using the right stick to land. (If you have a cross wind have your instructor teach you how to use the rudder to compensate). Some times it's hard to wait, but try to learn when the wind is calm. With practice it will all come naturally. You can have a really bad day flying and your knees can shake like rubber, but a good or great landing at the end of the day makes it all worth while!

First the Co-Pilot: I like the idea of being able to practice with out my instructor, strictly for time reasons(we can only meet once a week), and having a device that saves my butt will give confidence to do it. I also feel like cheating if I relay solely on it instead of polishing my skills.

Now the landings, you know... Think I got it, something that David said is very, very true, when I nail a couple landings on the runway and after the bounces the engine still running, that give me confidence, and help me to relax, relax, relax, I felt cool, and then 2 landings without bounces, very soft, nice glide, I was in heaven.

I found that to me was easy to make a big 180 glide turn to align my plane that the usual 90 - 90, sure I'm using a sprinkler and a distance telephone post as a reference, but that help me, now I have to polish my elevator - throttle landing skill, I'm also trying to make the last alignment correction with the ruder; should I do this or keep with the aileron, I feel that the aileron banking was causing me troubles on the last alignment maneuvers just before touchdown.

I don't know, but last week when I crash twice while trying to land I felt awful, but my men this is going to be a greeeeaaaaattt week after those landing.

I'm doing great with the plane control in the air, doing circles and 8, but will appreciate some input regarding take off the plane almost flip over after it climb 4 or 6 feet.

This sounds like a snap, which is probably the biggest enemy of the learner (and, it could be argued, the biggest friend of the 3d flier, but that's another story!!)

It was almost certainly caused by trying to get airborne too early, before enough airspeed had been reached, and the wing was flying properly. Try to keep the plane of the ground a little longer before taking off.

When a wing stalls, it doesn't stall equally across the whole wing, and sometimes one wing will partially stall when the other is still providing normal lift. Partly due to the air bleeding off the tip, the tip on some wings tends to stall first. This is called, believe it or not, a tip stall! It can be avoided in the design of the wing, and also when flying.

Lets say you are lining up to land, flying an aircraft that tends to tip stall... When you slow down, you will see one wing drop (the tip on the dropped side has partially stalled), the reflex is to give opposite aileron. This sometimes makes the situation even worse, as the dropped aileron (that is trying to push the dropped wing up) increases the drag on that side, making the plane turn towards the dropped wing (not away from it, which is what you meant to do!) and the plane dives in even faster! This is called a snap, and, when you get a bit more proficient, is great fun to actually induce if you are high enough!!!.

Getting back to the unwanted snap on landing . .The only way to handle this situation is to use a yaw control surface that hasn't stalled . . that is . . the rudder. Giving opposite rudder will not only have the tendency to bring up the dropped wing, but could also increase the speed of that side of the plane slightly which, if you are lucky, might bring the wing out of stall.

So, that's an answer to your other question. It is often better to use the rudder than the ailerons to control the model at slow speeds.

I shouldn't worry about all this just yet though. It only happens with more sensitive planes, and shouldn't happen with a trainer, where the stall speed of the wing is so slow due to the low wing loading.

-David C.

Let me describe you exactly how I'm taking off:

Full up elevator, full throttle and trying to keep the plane center as possible with the ruder, perhaps I should let if gain some speed before applying up elevator?

There's your problem!

You should not give up elevator until you are fast enough to take off. In fact, the model will tell you when, as i will start to 'skip' a bit.

Even then, just a little up elevator will do, and the model should then climb gently.

-David C.

Does the surface you're taking of matters, I'm using a Superstar 40 on a grass field.

Well, yes, you have to take it into account, but not to the extent of taking off before the model is ready. Once in the air, it doesn't know what it took off from!

-David C.

David I would like to see what you have to say regarding using the FMA CoPilot to learn when I can not fly with my instructor.

Well, this has been my experience with the copilot. A student of mine had one on his plane, and i ended up having him turn it off when he flew with me for one reason... it wanted to control the plane it caused it to fly different then when it was turned off. For example, without it... you'd enter into a turn, bank the plane, and then let off the ailerons and switch to elevator. Without the copilot, the plane would stay in the bank. With the copilot turned on, you had to be very careful in the turns... after you'd let off the ailerons in the turn, the copilot would cause the plan to level back out. To correct this, I had to hold ailerons throughout the entire turn, and the student had a hard time finding just the right amount of aileron to hold without banking it too far.

The one thing I'd recommend to use it for is take off and landing. if you have a 6 channel radio, you can control how much the copilot will correct the plane. So after you take off, turn the copilot off. And before you land, turn it back on.

One other funny thing, with the copilot turned all the way up, the plane was almost impossible to turn. As soon as we'd let off the ailerons, it would balance itself. Even holding the ailerons it wanted to balance itself.

You are more expirience than me, so you think I should use it when I can not fly with my instructor?

Hi jucava,

Pardon my jumping in, but I just thought I'd throw in my two cents: You should ask your instructor about this.

The reason that I say this, is that learning to fly with electronic help is going to teach you to be dependent on the equipment. It is almost certain that you'll pick up habits, and it will be your instructor who has to determine if they are good habits or bad habits and help you to unlearn them if necessary.

In my personal opinion, you should learn to fly the airplane as simply as possible. By this I mean that you should not use any electronic help; you should not use advanced features, like exponential throws or mixing; IMHO, you should not even use electronic subtrims to set up the flying surfaces - you should learn how to mechanically set them up.

You should learn to fly - really fly - without help. It's not that hard to do, it just takes time. Once you are a competent pilot, there will be plenty of time to play with gadgets.

I hope that this helps,
-Wade

My favorite practice (and one of my better memories) is doing landing practice. My memory came from a Sunday morning with this guy. It was dead calm with a low (like 300 foot) ceiling. Back and forth...go touch the cloud, come back and land, keep going, touch the cloud on the other side.....then throw in a buddy's plane just so you can have fun with each other. THEN throw in some hammerhead practice for the turn-around.......

Wade, the reason that hold me from buying one is exactly what you're saying, I feel like I'm cheating my self.

I absolutely agree Wade.

I reckon it's also actually more difficult with co-pilot because you have another device to contend with, when there's enough to be getting on with in the plane alone.

-David C.

Have to agree. I tell my students to learn to fly the plane. I see so many depend on crutches. Just a week ago I was talking to someone that crashed because his trims were in the wrong place. I asked what difference that makes. You should always fly the plane. He said they were too far off to fly it. I don't think that should make a difference. Fly the plane, get it up a ways, fix the trims. If you rely on a crutch, you will never fly the plane to its potential. I flew helicopters for 15 years before I ever put a gyro in one. Lots of fun.

I have to agree. I'm not a big fan of the co-pilot. I actually like dealing with the uncertainty of RC flight and get personal satisfaction when I overcome a difficult situation. If it does a nose plant it's shop time, which I don't really mind, and back to hanger for a different plane until repaired. IMHO, learning with a crutch will never enable you to get instructor credentials or possibly fly an unfamiliar plane with confidence