A few weeks ago I bought an e-sky simulator and have been spending most of my spare time flying FMS ever since. At first I could hardly take off without crashing. Ihave never flown a real rc plane but at this point I find the trainers on FMS kinda boring. I have downloaded tons of acrobats and I can torque roll, knife edge, fly consitently and take off and land without crashing. I am trying to decide on my first real plane and I am thinking of getting an intermediate low wing like a Goldberg Tiger rather than starting with a high wing. I am also considering flying on my own, Ilive out on a farm with tons of good area to fly. Am Itoo full of myself?How close to real flying is the simulator?

Not close enough that you can pick up a radio and start flying. <font size="2">While the simulator is a good tool to use for training, it should in no way be considered an instructor tool. I have seen many people use the simulator before ever contacting an instructor and often they will pick up and develop bad habits from the simulator. Often times these bad habits will have to be "un-learned" when an instructor is contacted. Don't get me wrong, I think that they simulator is a great tool to help decrease the training time needed when learning to fly. But this must be done properly It should be used to PRACTICE skills that are taught each training session. When done in this manner it is indeed a cheap and safe way to practice these new skills. </font>

</p></p>

There are some things that most simulators aren't as accurate on as in real life, and these differences can often times give new pilots a false sense of security as to what they are capable of. A simulator is nothing more than a teaching tool, just like a buddy box is. It has a specific set of circumstances where it's use is applicable and it needs to be used properly like any other tool.</p>

Here's a list of some of the "bad" habits one can develop:

1) Failing to keep the plane straight during takeoff run.
2) Climbing out too steep.
3) Not maintaining a constant altitude while turning.
4) Turns that aren't smooth, too sharp, etc.
5) Forgetting that there is a left stick.
6) Not lining up with the runway during landing approach.
7) Using ailerons instead of rudder to make course corrections when landing.
8) Using the elevator to extend the landing when you realize you're short.
9) Failure to learn the signs that a plane is about to stall, and what to do to avoid it, or recover from it. </p>

 </p>

<u>The sim is NOT:</u></p><ul>[*]Going to teach you how to tune your engine[*]Going to teach you how to correct fuel system problems[*]Going to teach you how to set up your linkages[*]Going to show you about lateral inbalance and surface warp[*]Going to locate errors in assembly[*]Going to teach you how to maiden a plane[*]Going to trim out your plane[*]Going to simulate other flyers at the field[*]Going to blow a hard gust of air at your plane at just the wrong time[*]Going to simulate that hard sink thermal just off the runway threshold, though doable in G4[*]Going to have a bird come out and attack your plane in the air[*]Going to give you the weak knees you'll get the first time you fly[*]Going to throw a bug in your face and the sun glare in your eyes at the wrong time[/list]
Ken</p>

No..no no!!!  Go with a real trainer before you move into anything that is low wing intermediate.  And, for your first few flights, make sure you work with an instructor on a buddy box.  </p>

The sim gives you some basic coordination but you really have to work wiht an instructor to learn some basics of flight in the real world.  The pre-flight is most important as is the emergency procedures you will learn with an instructor.  It may only take you a few flights with an instructor, but those first few are very important.</p>

After your instructor time, you spend the next few week/months flying and honing what you learned, especially flying straight and level (arguably much harder than it seems) because any maneuvers you make originate by a straight and level flight path.  It's not as easy as you think it is, and the sim won't show you how to do that.</p>

So, get a trainer first then an instructor to help you out to get the basics, then fly the trainer for a while, then you are ready to move up to a Tiger II or Four Star 40, or whatever you may wish in the intermediate or advanced trainer level aircraft.</p>

CGr.</p>

Wow.. RCKen is right there, isn't he!!!! Hi Ken! Listen to what he has to say. Now there is an expert that you can quote. We were giving the same basic advice at the same time. There must be something to that. He is in Oklahoma and I'm in New Jersey. So, do yourself a favor and follow our lead on this. It will make all the difference between your dropping the hobby as being to difficult or expensive to having enjoyable flights.

WhenI started out, the only time Idamaged my trainer was when Ilanded a tad long and bent the landing gear. Now, I broke a few props, but at $2.00 each, that's not a big deal, but just a part of learning. You chance having a more catastrophic result if you run out of options and don't know what to do next during a landing.

Best of luck!</p>

CGr.</p>

Surly who can fly a low wing can fly a trainer, but not everybody who can fly a trainer can fly a low wing.....
I fly my trainer sometimes although I have several low wing airplanes just to practice new maneuvers..
There are many situations that the simulator doesn&rsquo;t prepare you for but are very much part of the real world like cross winds landings...
I second what is written above, the simulator is not replacement for a trainer.

Alex is so right.  I often go back to flying my trainer.  It gets you back to basics.  </p>

Let me explain.  Our modern capable aircraft are designed to fly straight and to do what we want them to do.  Most of us know what that is, and how to do it.  But, there are some situations that these advanced, even intermediate level aircraft, will get you into that no matter what you do, you are in trouble unless you do the exact right thing.  Very often, that means getting the nose down and adding throttle.  In the case of dead sticks, you can only get the nose down.  If you are not careful, and if you panic, the tendency is to climb, and pull the nose up.  </p>

Not good with an advanced aircraft.  But, with a trainer, you have half a chance of recovering, and learning how to do that.</p>

So we often go to our trainers and fly them for a little while to get the handling and flying where you have to do things to cause a result, however, with dihedral, a lot of times, that simply means letting go of the sticks and letting it self correct.  You can't do that with advanced aircraft, you have to fly them.</p>

So, take the advice and get yourself a trainer.  Treat it well because at some point, no matter what you fly and what your level is, you will most likely want a cool, calm, non-pressure few flights with your trainer, and at the same time, brush up on your basic skills.</p>

CGr.</p>

Don't do it. There is to much to this hoby to just go get a plane and fly it. Chances are you'll get 15 seconds of faame and have a pile of garbage at 16 seconds. Yes it can be done and has been done, it just going to cost you a whole lotta fustration and a lot mre moeny. Your going to break things, your not going to set things up right, your going to have to buy things twice becuase you didn't get the right one. And despite how persuasive the guy at the hobby store is he doesn't know what he's selling, he just sells it. Thats the norm anyway, luckely our local shop at the time was owned by an avid flyer.

I did teach myself but I did it very incrementally. Everytime I showed up to the feild everyone was packing up and leaving, I didn't havea a drivers license at that point, 16 years ago wow.

If ya do it alone

1) buy a lot of trash bags, parts spray over a large area. also don't fly within 10 miles of anybody and thats even pushing it

2) started with rc cars. I started on a simple elctrics, then advaqced electrics then nitro trucks.

3)the only people I know of including myself that learned by themselves started with gliders. if your against gliders then basically you need to increase your starting buget to about a grand for models because you'll go through about 4 before you learn how to fly.
I started with a zagi. I chased this thing down the hill for 4-5 weekends before I could get it up for more than a minute. Once I figured it out I would keep it up for 3-4 hours.
next a thermal glider.
After a couple months of that and lots of glue I got
a trainer and a cub kit and joined a club.
At that point I could fly but the engines are a pita when you don't know how to run them, being a gear head still didn't help. these thing are their own animal. I was on the cord for 2 flights. and learned how to really fly while building the cub.

Ken gave you some excellant BAD habits learned on a sim ,another one of those BAD habits learned on a sim is that "reset" button, don't get one of those in real life.

Sure you do. But it costs a few hundred dollars every time you press it!!!!

Ken

That is way too true!!
I use my sim only when I'm trying to learn new stunts, other then that it isn't all that real and you can really get into some bad habits. When I first stared to fly RC my instructor installed his Real Flight G-1 into my puter and gave me one little red and white buzz bomb plane that sould spin like a high speed drill bit. He had me fly that plane from one side of the screen to the other and do only one roll. It helped me stop my over controling of the real RC trainer.
When I'm learning something new it really helps me get my fingers working the inputs without doing a lot of thinking so doing a new stunt isn't as hard for me out at the field.
Did you notice I mentioned my instructor set up my first sim for me, the key word was instructor!!

know what I'd like to see on a sim? when you crash you have to wait one week before you can use the sim again, simulates time needed for reapirs or replacement

i have a cousin that i put on the sim. he wantes  to learn how to fly. </p>

heres a big thing adginst the simulator. while it does provide help you learn orentation, it doesnt teach you that planes require correction all the time.</p>

example, go on your sim, advance the throttle and let go of the sticks. i will bet the plane just take's off and starts flying itself. in real life runways arnt smooth, their is wind/thermals/aerodynamic or trim issues, ect. the plane will almost always need attention and correction.</p>

in a simulator i can fly the planes with my eyes closed, literally. in real life i can do it for about 10 sec (with a small foamy, and someone else watching the plane) before a little gust of wind or something throw the plane off course. if a simulator was exactly like real life i would be able to fly with my eyes closed. </p>

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet,but I feel(as would most newbs) that the hardest part BYFAR of flying RC planes is something that a sim cant even touch on..........and this is what makes it almost impossible to learn to fly RC planes on your own. And that is NERVES. You can fly sims forever(just like Idid),but you'll most likely never be able to fly a real plane on your own simply because not only does your mind do cartwheels for you first about 30 flights making you not be able to concentrate,your fingers dont work at all and are shaking so bad you cant use the sticks right. But this is good because this is the thrill of it. Problem is it takes many flight with an instructor to get past this part. And no sim can do that for you. Sims only teach you coordination which you can only use once you get your nerves somewhat controlable....and even then its hard. I'm still that way a couple years and a bunch of planes later. And still use our club instructor to maiden some of my planes and make sure they fly right before I take over. This is another nice part of an instuctor. You'll have no clue what to do if you planes isnt perfect on its maiden......which happens about 1/2 the time. Our instructor saved a plane or 2 of mine already this season! Anyway.....fly that sim and get an instructor! Good luck!!!

I've seen people do it. Come out and fly with no prior experience but sim time. But the odds are very much against you. I have no real stats to base this on, but I would guess that less than 15% are successful attempting this approach.

And most people need help setting up their plane correctly. There are a few things to know about mounting radios and fuel tanks. There is a little black magic involved in getting glow engines to run correctly as well. In short , there are dozens of little tricks to learn about your airplane. Some pertain to flying, some don't.

Having a real live human tour guide to help you ease into the hobby can make life much, much easier . And they can make your success and enjoyment of this hobby a given rather than an unlikely outcome.

We are everywhere. I'll bet there is an RC pilot nearby that would help. Contact the nearest hobby shop to locate the nearest club. Or go to the AMA website or ask for assistance here on RCU. Someone is close enough to assist you.

My first plane survived it's first flight despite me only learning on FMS.  It wasn't pretty though.  I buzzed a car on the road and miraculously brought it down without too much damage WAY off the landing strip.  I think the nose gear got bent back.  I wouldn't recommend this to anyone.  Get an instructor! 

I think (hope) a lot of it depends on the sim. I use/used FMS, which was great to learn some coordination, but is pretty much crap for anything else.

Though there's a lot of awesome advice in here, I'd go so far as to say that instructors are a good idea generally speaking. <span style="color: #ff0000">Warning:an epic-sized post is forthcoming.</span>

I started building and flying R/C airplanes back when I was 16. The trainer at the time that my father got me was a Tower Hobbies Tower Trainer 40, and I'll be honest: my third or fourth flight with it was less than stellar. As a matter of fact, she actually flew off into the horizon, never to be seen from again.

Suffice it to say, my father wasn't too happy with me, because it's not a trainer that I lost:it was $379.00 down the tubes.

Don't let this dissuade you. The first several flights were complete successes. I tuned the engine to the best of my abilities, performed the range checks, did all that good stuff I'd read about online. When it came down to crunchtime, I took off, did a few circuits with some flips and rolls, and landed without an issue (though at least one of the flights ended with a dead stick landing). The final flight in question ended with disastrous results because I was having a bit too much fun, and failed to realize just how dark it was getting, and it was incredibly difficult for me to determine the orientation of the plane at this point.

Also, I hadn't yet come to the realization that my vision was quite poor.

That Christmas, I was treated to the first incarnation of the RealFlight flight sim, and I got to love a lot of the planes in there. Specifically the Simple Flier and the P-51D. There was zero stress when I flew any of the planes, and I was doing complex aerobatic maneuvers within minutes, and landing with just as much grace.

Of course, as the people have attested here, real life conditions will hardly ever be as pristine as those you encounter in a flight sim, and even at that age I knew that. So I went in to the weather settings and constantly randomized them. I'd set it to give me random gusts here and there, sweeping across the landing field, down it, up it, and so forth.

Flying was difficult, but not impossible by a longshot.

On a side note, it's been a long time since I played around with the RealFlight simulator, so I don't know how it's evolved up to this point. I believe the last time I messed with it, it was just hitting G2.5, and smoke trails were the new big thing.

Anyway.

I'd also been given another trainer by my father (whom had cooled down significantly), and this time, we went out looking for an instructor. We found one who professed to be a seasoned 3Dpilot (I had no idea what this meant at the time, but it sounded official), and met up at a local lake that had frozen over for the winter. It was cold outside, but otherwise, pristine. No wind at ground level, and a relatively clear airstrip on the ice.

After looking at the setup and deeming it flight worthy, he started 'er up and took off.

He told me that he wanted to make sure that everything was working properly in the air before we got out the buddy box and started flying that way, and of course, I yielded to what I thought was much greater experience.

To my horror, however, the flight ended with him coming in far too steep far too fast, and he ran into the brush on the sides of the strip. Which left the left wing horribly torn.

That was the end of my flight for that day.

A couple weeks later, we go and purchase a membership to the local R/C club, join the AMA, and go to the local flying field. I go when there's nobody else there, and sure enough, everything goes perfectly well.

Afew years later, and you find me messing around with my first self-built kit:the Great Planes UltraSport 40 Plus. Not only did I build it all on my own with only an ARFas prior experience, but I built it with all the bells and whistles you could add to it (that is, retracts and a beautiful 4-stroke). Unfortunately, the first flight ended on a sad note, with the retracts being ripped out due to the field I fly at being poorly maintained (Ifoolishly figured that as long as I could take off, that's all I need to worry about).

/deepbreath

The moral of the story? Instructors are prolly a good thing to have as a general... guideline... but they're in no way completely infallible. If you can accept that, you'll be good to go and a lot less disappointed if something does go wrong, be it their fault or otherwise.

My advise? Practice in the sim, do a lot of reading, and get comfortable with the hobby. And don't leave the weather settings at an unrealistic dead calm. As the saying goes, don't limit your challenges; challenge your limits.

And also, a nice durable trainer wouldn't hurt. For this, I'd recommend a DuraPlane Trainer 40. Cheap, durable, and a trainer. What more could you ask for?</p>

Definately get a sim, Ihave the Phoenix and it's a great.

You can adjust for wind and have gusts at whatever frequency you desire and speed. The one thing that stands out on all the replies is the fact you will have sweaty palms when you hit the field...nerves come into play and a space bar is free, crashing in real life is....you know.

The sim will not 100% duplicate your plane, but will be darn close...at least you will get the stick movements down.

I use mine for the heli and it's SCARY accurate, very scary accurate. Knock on glass, save your @$%, Ihave not had a mishap yet with my 50 size nitro spending alot of time on the sim.

If you want to learn on a heli or a plane, there is a somewhat of a "set" way to accomplish this, for planes, get an instructor and with a good long runway, practice touch and go's but don't fly the pattern.

Get up to takeoff speed then settle in for the landing only getting a few feet off the gound. The final approach and flare are important. When you are able to lift off and land, the rest is much less intimidating.

Iactually learned to fly the real ones before the models, and always remember....... that "turning is the horizontal component of lift", meaning, the plane will roll with the aileirons and climb with the elevators, butbank into a turn and pull the elevators back is how you turn. You can surely roll into a turn but to come around it's the elevators that will turn you, the rudder is a different story but practicing this on a sim will help you ALOT.

You get the takeoff and landing down along with just a simple turn, your confidence will be boosted well beyond what you are expexcting when you hit the field, removes some of those nerves.

Morale of the story.... GETASIM!

Why is it that everytime someone wants to get into flying everyone always says "get an instructor". That seems to be the favorite response. Did it ever occur to anyone that some people have the knowledge and ability to take on rc flight without an instructor. I for one learned without an instructor or a buddy box over 20 years ago. No I did not crash. I flew that all foam trainer 3 times before I was bored with it and it's Enya .15 engine and went to a low wing, and yes it flew fine with no crashes for about20 flights before I decided to built a CG Anniversary cub and fly it and yes it is alive to this day.If I lived on a large farm or ranch with acres and acres of opened landI would not worry about an instructor. There is enough info on the web these daysfor you to teach yourself how to start and tune an engine.Back to the question, no a sim is nothing like real life. It can teach you hand eye coordination which helps alot when the plane is flying at you. It can teach you what stick makes the plane move what way. It takes discipline on the sim as well as real life. Treat the sim as if it were a 4 hundred dollar plane and you do not have a reset button. If you can fly and land flight after fligth on the sim with no problems and you know for a fact that you can set up a plane "by the way there is enough info on the web for that to" then by all means I would buy a high wing trainer and give it a shot on my own, but you will get bored with it fast. Don't take this to heart but if I were in yours shoes and I felt like I could handle a low wing I would buy the Phoenix Dolphin to start off with. my 12 year old son flew mine for about 10 flights and then went to flying his .40 Ultimate.Now like I said don't take that to heart, but that is what I would do.

Read every word these guys tell you.

I got into planes about 20 years ago just for the modeling aspect of it and never really thought about flying. Since I raced cars, I thought it would be boring. Boy was I wrong! One day a guy gave me an OS .10 and I put it on a PT-20 and deciced I was going to fly. Me and a buddy found a dead end street that we figured was the perfect spot. to maiden the PT-20 that i just spent 3 months building. First flight was pretty much straight up and down. So I rebuilt the plane, tried again, and again with that under powered, duct taped, silver mono-ed, untuned motored thing and did eventually soloed. Kinda!

I gave up for about 5 years and then a few of my car racing buds got into planes so I built a Kadet LT-40 with a Magnum .52 four stroke and again, we found a dead end street to fly on. Still not a very bright thing to do but with child support and everything, I really couldn't afford racing cars, building planes, joining the AMAand besides, I heard rumors that the guys at the local club field were rude arseholes which turned out NOT to be true! My buds would take off my plane, hand me theradio and I was able to flygoing left only, and land it for me.

Present day. About 3 months ago I bought a Super Star .40 and installed an OS 46 AX on it, bought a sim and joined the AMA. I started hanging out at the club field sometimes without my plane and a few times with the planejust to listen and learn. Tuning motors, watching them fly and mentally taking notes on how they flew when the wind was strong, changing conditionsetc. I had my first solo several weeks ago after wasting 20 years because I was too hard headed to ask for help.

Today, I maidened a LT-40 with another Mangum .52 four stroke and was able to do it all on my own including breaking in and tuning the motor all by myself. It only took 20 years. lol

Because not everyone is a Texan!

 Simulators didn't help me a whole lot with learning to fly planes. A good instructor is your best bet. If you are interested in helicopter that is another story. You can learn to fly them with a sim. I learned to fly helicopters with a sim and a trex 450. </p>

I was going to say get a Realflight G4.5 but that is a different story. If I could have had this ting 60 years ago

Well said CGR.

The sims are not a good tool to learn to fly RC... but merely to get the hang of looking at a plane from the ground, and flying it. They will help with harsh movements of the transmitter knobs, but that's about it. Get an experienced flyer, with a buddy-box... the cheapest trainer you can find, and have fun with learning to fly. There's an old adage among pilots: "First get good, then go for speed". Nothing could be truer, at ANYTHING you do in life. It has been said, in previous posts, and I don't think you'll find an avid RCer to tell you otherwise....TRAIN in real life. Do nothing halfway and expect to pay for what you get.

Keep your head up on a swivel.