I recently decided to get another new trainer airplane expressly for training students at the club. I have a wonderful Goldberg Protege .60 ARF that survived a scare earlier this summer; I let a student pilot who was close to soloing go a little too long with the Protege before I took it back from him. I avoided a ground collision, but put the plane into a tree. The damage is all repaired and the Protege is in good flying shape once again, but I really like the plane and I'm hesitant to take students up on it again because I can't readily replace it if it's lost.

I made a list of potential trainer ARFs that I wanted to consider:

1) Sig Kadet LT-40
2) Thunder Tiger Tiger Trainer 40 MkIII
3) Tower Hobbies Tower Trainer 40 MkII
4) VMar Apache III
5) Thunder Tiger Tiger Trainer 60 MkII
6) Tower Hobbies Tower Trainer 60 MkII
7) Goldberg Eagle II
8) World Models Sky Raider Mach I

I was curious about the 70" wingspan trainer ARF that Nitro Planes carries, but it was sold out at Nitro Planes and at Raidentech. I liked the idea of a .60-size trainer ARF for $69.99, but I have to be able to buy one to try it.

At the end of the day, I decided to go ahead and order the VMar Apache III ARF from Richmond RC. I also ordered a Ramrod low-wing trainer ARF; you can buy one for half price with the purchase of any other regularly priced ARF. I've owned planes from most all of the other manufacturers I was considering, and I simply wanted to try another manufacturer. I've ordered other items from Richmond RC previously (covering, engine test stand, etc.) and I've enjoyed dealing with them; I decided I'd rather make up my mind about VMar ARFs on my own. I may be pleasantly surprised by my new Apache III trainer ARF, or I may be secretly elated when I finally put the plane in at some future date. Either way, at least I can base my opinion of VMar ARFs on my own experiences.

The Apache III in particular was appealing to me for a few reasons:

A) It comes with heavy-duty landing gear standard. Straightening out the gumby-style landing gear wire on a couple of other ARFs I've flown could be annoying at times.

B) It's specifically designed to fly with a .46 ball bearing 2-stroke, and I have a couple of nice ones to choose from. Many .40 size trainers are better suited to flying with a .36 2-stroke or a .40/.46 plain bearing engine, and I don't have one of those free at the moment.

C) The Apache III has a very distinct covering scheme and a 69" wingspan that should provide excellent visibility.

At the end of the day, it was just plain old curiosity that got the better of me. I'll try to take some pictures and post about my experiences with the Apache III and the Ramrod at some future point. Anybody who has read the RCU forums for any length of time may be familiar with VMar's sometimes-spotty reputation. I did a quick search for "Apache" in the ARF forum and found some of the following gems:

"VMAR apache lll arf: I know it has been posted about the VMAR planes but i am going to do it once more what a piece of crap covering is loose right from the box and will not stay tight preinstalled puch rods are of the worse i have ever tryed to use even thow there steel but i am stuck with this low grade plane tell i can buy one that is of higher grade" rustleruss

"Almost everyone will tell you to stay away from VMARs, I have seen 2 Apache breaking their wing." tIANci

"I purchased the Apache Trainer last year and here are my thoughts:

- Their hardware is of poor quality. Mine came with rusted rods, connectors, gear, screws, basically everything that is metal was rusted.
- The wood used was of poor-average quality. Instructions were spotty at best. Several bad glue joints.
- Good graphics, but it faded fast.
- My suggestions: Spend a little more money on a quality ARF (like SIG), stay away from VMAR, and you'll be much happier!

They had their one chance with me and I really don't care to try them ever again. Especially with so many other better quality ARFs manufacturers around." FlyNBHappy

If the planes show up and I'm really just not at all satisfied with them, well, our club's annual auction is in mid-October.

you can get the wild hawk from other place (banana hobbies has it for like $99 which kinda sucks as you can see it for sale on so many other places for 20 bucks less.)
http://www.wonderhobby.com/3mij3picub.htmlhas it for 88 bucks.

I've seen ********/dave powersand otherssay that's a great first plane asit can take a lot of impact.


I'm assuming your talking about the wild hawk as thats the widest plane they stock for beginners.

He is talking about glow engine trainers, not electric.
I believe this is the one he was refering to from Nitro Planes
http://www.nitroplanes.com/niarfsutr60y.html
This is the Apache III he is talking about.
http://www.richmondrc.com/vma/storec..._vma_a140x.htm

Missleman is correct on both counts. I bought my Protege .60 ARF with the intention of basically getting the nicest trainer available. Now I'd rather keep the Protege for my own casual flying and I'd like a seperate trainer platform for instructing students.

Ahhh I see Isee. Iwas way off on this one then.


BTW: Is there any advantage for a glow enginetrainer compared to an eletric? I figured an eletric would be more simple and less stuff would break (or at least it would be a hell of a lot cheaper to fix if its a foamie for a newbie; I know one small crash for me would totally kill a nice balsa plane and that would be the end of the sport for me).

The main advantages of glow are they are bigger and heavier which makes them more stable when flying, easier to see and can handle wind that would ground an electric.
Not much more to repair as long as the crash is not real bad but it is more expensive to get started compared the the planes you have been working with and I would strongly recommend joining a club if you consider flying glow. With a good instructor ,usually free with club membership, flying on a buddy box with you there is very little chance of crashing.
A good idea is to visit a local club and just check it out, they may have a trainer they will be willing to take you up with and show you what its all about.

The crash danger in balsa planes is overrated IMO. I have had a number of unplanned landings and only one was a total airframe destruction. Most just break something like a landing gear mount or maybe part of the wing or tail. A little glue and covering fixes it right up. Foamys probably do fare better in minor crashes, but since the small ones really don't fly as well I suspect they have more of them too.

My VMar Apache III trainer ARF and my VMar Ramrod ARF arrived from Richmond RC yesterday. If nothing else, I'm awfully impressed with the shipping packaging. Each ARF was shipped individually with its own external shipping box. Inside of each shipping box, the display box with the ARF was sandwiched between two sheets of wood veneer. I've never seen anything like it before, but it must be very useful for preventing punctures or small holes.

The ARF display box itself was completely bagged in thick clear plastic of not-inconsiderable strength. The ARF should be completely protected against the elements, and the heavy plastic should also minimize the airframe's exposure to changes in relative humidity. Richmond RC charges $15 per ARF to ship, but seeing the terrific job they do with packaging and protecting their merchandise, I'm inclined to believe it's worth it.

I'm hoping to find a little time to actually peel into the boxes and inspect the Apache III airframe sometime this weekend. I'll try to take a few photos and post some notes once I actually get to look at my new toy.

Tower has the CGProtege 60 in an ARF. It's $149.00
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...LXRXH8&P=7

Just a suggestion, since you have a "beefy landing gear" you might ensure that the mounting is beefy as well. It's easier to reinforce before the damage, than after.

This plane is not on your list, but it is one fantastic trainer. Hanger 9 Alpha 60...

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HAN2725

Tower has had the Protege 60 ARF and many other Goldberg designs listed as "Temporarily Unavailable" for a year or more. It's my hope that they'll be restocked at some point, but there's no indication it will happen anytime soon.

Birman - the Alpha 60 is indeed a fantastic trainer, and I probably should have included it on my list. It sells for a premium compared to most of the other ARFs I was considering, however, and my goal was to buy something that wouldn't be a stinging loss if it went in while instructing with it. The Alpha 60 now sells for around $45 more than the most expensive trainer on my shopping list, the Sig Kadet LT-40 ARF.

I have flown several of these. From your list I would go with the Skyraider Mach I. Since you are an accomplished pilot and will be providing instruction you will like the Skyraider's bolt on wing, Ability to take a hit, dust off and get back in the air. Then most important, reletively inexpensive replacement cost in the event of an unrecoverable situation. Additionally I found the Skyraider Mach I to have a wide flight envelope. I used to like the Hobbico Avistar and H9 Arrow for their semisemetric air foils but hated the rubber bands. The Mach I takes all the good from those two planes and bolts the wing on. Then go up and show your student a trainer can do nice rolling circles as well as many other aerobatics you would not try with rubber bands.

The WM Sky Raider Mach I was under very serious consideration, Mr67Stang.

I have to say that all of my initial impressions of the VMar Apache III are very positive right now. My first peek into the box marks the first time that I've ever been surprised at how much better the quality of a product was when compared to what I was expecting. The airframe and hardware were so well packaged inside the display box that it was almost annoying. Nothing would pop out easily and I had to go through and cut the packing tape and cardboard that was holding everything exactly where it was supposed to be.

The Apache III covering arrived in perfect condition. The covering, Polycote ECS, is nicer looking than I was expecting. It is a bit thin and the airframe can easily be seen underneath sections of covering that are meant to be opaque. The overall appearance is really first rate, however, and I'm looking forward to showing this beauty off once it's complete. I have no idea if this stuff will stay stuck onto the airframe for 100 flights or for 1 flight, but it looks great right now. My Nexstar Select and Tower Trainer 40 Mk II trainers shed striping frequently, and my Protege's Ultracote covering has only held up a little better. Having the trim details pre-printed into the covering is a good idea on paper, and I'm looking forward to testing it at the field.

The instruction manual appears to be first rate. The manual itself is all color, and features lots of photographs as well as lots of detailed text instructions. A special addendum detailing the covering material and the special VMar control horns was also included; as was a color catalog from Richmond RC. There are detailed instructions for installing a tail-dragger landing gear setup as well as tricycle gear; there are also detailed instructions for installing one aileron servo as well as dual aileron servos for flaperon use. It's really a terrific manual.

All of the hardware upon first glance seems to be of high quality as well. The tank assembly is nice, the tires included are all rubber rather than foam, and the ARF comes with a tail wheel assembly and nose gear as advertised. The nose gear even comes with a Cessna 182 Skylane-style scale strut to dress up the appearance of the plane if you choose the tricycle setup.

The clear windows for the cockpit are all pre-installed, as is the pilot figure. The pilot figure even has a cloth jacket and cloth safety belt straps over his plastic torso.

All of the control surfaces are pre-hinged and pinned from the factory. The pins are visible on the underside only of each of the control surfaces. Initial inspection indicates that they are snuggly hinged, but I'll be going over them more thoroughly during the assembly process.

I have an order of servos, switch and charge jacks, servo extensions, and other miscellaneous pieces needed to build the Apache III arriving on Monday. I know you can't judge a book by it's cover, but so far all of my initial impressions of my VMar Apache III ARF are better than expected. I think this is going to be a nice, smooth assembly that will result in a terrific looking, terrific flying airplane. I won't pull any punches if my expectations aren't met during the assembly and flying work that lies ahead, but it looks to me like VMar and Richmond RC have really put some thought and effort into improving the overall quality and customer experience of their airframes.

I'm getting more and more impressed with my VMar ARFs from Richmond RC. The Apache III and the Ramrod have both been on a back burner for a while. It's been raining a lot for the last several weeks, and I've been trying to maiden my Thunder Tiger Pitts Special .40 ARF and my 84" Quaker. I am able to report that our club auction came and went, and I'm still a happy VMar owner. I think the Apache III will make a wonderful trainer with which to work with students.

I had a couple of additional surprises today. My buddy Fred was looking for a project, and I'd had the Ramrod ARF sitting out in my garage still wrapped in the heavy shipping plastic that protects the display box. I went over to Fred's house this afternoon with the Ramrod ARF and all of the necessary electronics; a Hitec Supreme IIS receiver, four Hitec HS-311 servos, a Hitec DC 72Mhz FM Ch33 crystal, a Hitec 4.8V 600Mah receiver pack, an Airtronics switch/charge jack, an Airtronics 6" servo extension for the aileron lead, and charge port for the side of the fuselage. I needed to round up an engine for it, and I figured I could give Fred the fuel line, prop, and safety nut when I gave him the engine.

I told Fred that I hadn't even seen the Ramrod yet, and I was looking forward to opening the box. We unwrapped the box and lifted the lid; inside was a perfectly restrained Ramrod ARF waiting to be assembled. Like the Apache, the covering was beautifully applied without a wrinkle to be found. The control rods were pre-installed, the canopy was already mounted, all control surfaces were pre-hinged and pinned from the factory. The wheels included with the Ramrod were high quality foam, whereas the Apache III ARF came with rubber wheels. It was surprising how nice the silver, yellow, light blue, dark blue, and white covering looking laid out across the airframe. The pictures I'd seen on Richmond RC's website didn't do the Ramrod justice.

"My collection of extra engines has thinned out a bit," I told Fred. I've got the MECOA Aero .46 at home along with a couple of older Super Tigres, but I'm not sure I want to use any of those on the Ramrod. I was trying to decide whether I'd use an old engine on it, or just go ahead and buy something new, and when I went out to the mailbox today my check for serving on jury duty was waiting for me."

Fred chuckled, "Well that wasn't too hard of a choice, was it?"

I cracked a grin and replied, "I thought about ordering a few more Aviastar .46s from Sig and just using a couple of those. I might order a couple of new Super Tigres instead, or get another (Thunder Tiger) GP-42. I'll need to get safety nuts, too, for whatever engines I decide on. I still don't like plastic spinners. I have to give VMar credit, though, the spinner they include looks quite a bit nicer than the ones you normally get thrown in with an ARF. Here, check this out!"

I reached into the box and grabbed the black spinner included with the Ramrod ARF. Still in the plastic bag, Fred grabbed it and opened up the package to inspect it more closely.

"Uh, dude?" Fred's face switched from puzzled to amused, "This isn't a plastic spinner; it's aluminum." Fred clinked the spinner against his wedding ring to emphasize the point.

My $49.99 Ramrod ARF came with a painted aluminum spinner included in the box. Sweet! When I got back to my house, I checked the spinner in the Apache III ARF box, sure enough it too was painted aluminum rather than plastic.

I'm really looking forward to seeing and flying the finished Ramrod ARF with whatever engine I decided to mount on it. Like the Apache III, it looks like a high quality airframe that should be a terrific flier as well. While having either of them disintegrate in mid-flight will likely change my mind regarding VMar ARFs, so far I'm very glad that I decided to give Richmond RC a shot and decide for myself with regard to the quality of their products.

Fred e-mailed me pictures of the Ramrod's finished wings. I think he snapped these with his cell phone, so the picture quality isn't great. It does show the overall quality of the covering from the factory and the high-contrast difference between the top and bottom of the wing. My engines will arrive in the next day or two and I should be able to take the Ramrod to the club general meeting on Friday for show-and-tell.

Nobody is more pleasantly surprised at how nice these high-quality VMar ARFs are turning out than I am!

Sorry about the low quality pics. I took those at 9 pm last night in my basement. I'll see if I can round up a real camera today. If anyone's interested, getting the wing ready to bolt on took about an hour and a half start to finish. Pretty happy with how it went together, too.

Well, I ordered the RamRod as an afterthought when I ordered the Apache III trainer. Naturally the RamRod was finished first.

Fred said the whole ARF only took about five to six hours to complete. It was very complete right out of the box, and with very few issues. The fuel tank stopper stripped out while being tightened onto the tank and was replaced, also one of the clevises cracked while being put onto the control horn and was replaced with a DuBro clevis. Everything else went together quite nicely indeed.

The VMar RamRod low wing trainer is now complete and ready to maiden. It is set up with an Enya SS40BB G7 engine, Hitec Supreme IIS receiver, and four HS-311 servos.

Hey BigEd,
Don't forget to mention the screwy nose gear stance. I've got a nasty injury from bending that hardened steel b@st@rd!

Oh yeah, the nose gear was a little too long. Oddly enough, it wasn't too long on the upper part above the spring though, it was long below the spring where the "L" bend is for the nose wheel. Fred had to cut the lower part of the nose gear and then re-bend the "L" into it. The nose gear slipped out of his hand and he says he gave himself a nasty boo boo while finishing it up.

The important thing is that the plane looks terrific, and that I wasn't hurt in any way (or even inconvenienced) when Fred was injured!

How about a photo of the fully built Apache III?

NorfolkSouthern

Geez, you guys are demanding! I just got the Apache III to build on Monday! It'll be done this afternoon, though. I'll try to get a few pictures when it's done.

Well, I handed the Apache off faster than I could take a picture. Now it's solely up to BigEd. About the build, there were a couple of irritating things. The tail wheel attaching method caused a little bit of binding and for some reason the throttle pushrod HAS to go right through the pilots right shoulder. Nothing major, just irritating. I went ahead and put in the optional twin aileron servos. The mounting rails are already there, so why not? It's actually a pretty good idea that could be used with lots of trainers. The instructions have you cut the aileron servo opening three times wider than necessary, so there's room for two servos. Each one goes to it's own aileron and it all tucks into the fuselage nicely.

Well, the Apache III came out equally as nice as the Ramrod did. Fred noted the minor annoyances associated with this particular assembly. This Apache III will be the primary trainer that I will fly with students for the near future, and it looks like it should do the job admirably. I belong to two different clubs and I instruct students at both; the tail-dragger gear will be nice for grass field take-offs.

The trainer is set up with dual aileron servos and flaperons as Fred previously noted. We've installed an Enya SS40BB G7 engine with a Master Airscrew 11x5 prop. The control surfaces are moved by five Hitec HS-311 servos connected to an Airtronics 92824 2.4Ghz 8-channel receiver and a Hitec 4.8V 600Mah flight pack battery.

Now I just need another sunny, dry weekend so I can maiden both of these planes before putting them away for the winter!

There! See all the pretty pictures? Good job BigEd!