Roughly three years ago I purchased a Parkzone Super Decathlon RTF from my local hobby store. After unsuccessfully trying to fly the plane 2-3 times with minor crashes, I ended up breaking the fuselage where the landing gear attached to it. I was advised by the hobby store to purchase a new 70 dollar fuselage altogether. I was very young (in middle school) at the time and was too naive to realize that I could have fixed the the problem with some balsa wood and epoxy. Likewise, I did not maintain a salary that could pay for such a repair.
Approximately one year later I purchased (from a different hobby store) a hobbyzone Super Cub RTF. It was about then I joined RC Universe, hence my user name. The Super Cub was flown more successfully than the Super Decathlon though i never flew it without a crash occuring at some point. Furthermore, the battery did not seem to charge properly which limited flight time.
At some point I visited my local flying club field. Club members seemed helpful enough. I ended up joining the AMA as well as the club. I was advised, much to my dismay(due to price), that it was necessary for me to purchase a .40- .60 size nitro trainer aircraft among other things. I purchased a hobbico nexstar. For about 3 months I eagerly participated in club events, meetings, etc. I even went so far as to attend a class the club held at my community center regarding the building of an ARF aircraft. However, within those three months, I barely recieved any flight instruction. Whenever I visited the field something prevented me from flying. Overall, I recieved less than an hours instruction total on how to fly the nexstar. The nexstar itself was an unreliable plane. The wing had trouble being fascened to the fuselage and in some instances it had trouble starting. Instructors in the club either seemed too busy to help me or simply did not have the correct budy box cord to connect to my controller. Most club officers and members SEEMED willing to help me out, but very few were ACTUALLY willing to lend me a hand. The one instructor who "took the time" to help me was intimidating and by my standards a poor teacher. After the three month period, I simply stopped visiting the flying field and going to meetings.
Two moinths ago i decided to give flying yet another try. This time I contemplated joining a smaller club that advertised as being "beginner friendly" I came to a meeting and met an interesting flight instructor who SEEMED willing to help me fly.I emailed him about making an appointment to begin training again. Aparently he was busy on weekends. My "job" as a student hinders the ability for me to visit a flying field during a week day. The instructor said that he would email other club instructors stating that I needed instruction. I however recieved no emails since. I've also visited the flying field several times only to find that no instructors were present.
I therefore gave up on learning to fly the nexstar a second time.
I will apologize if this story has wasted your time. My actual question poses whether or not an e-flite Piper L-4 or Beachcraft 450 (ARF's) would make for good "park flyer" beginer planes. It seems as though my age( or lack there of), schedule, and perhaps personality have wrecked my previous flying carreers. Other than answering my question, any feedback in regards to my story would be appreciated. Thanks.

I’ve taught kids as young as 10, but it comes at a large personal price. Perhaps they don’t perceive you as mature enough to invest their time, which for many is limited. The reason I mention this is due to your other posts, or for instance the title of this one.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. With the amount of passion most of us have for this hobby, we can understand how disappointed you are. The first thing that comes to mind is to try yet another club (I know, I know, but don't give up!), or maybe try the second club's website for another contact. I really don't think this is a typical situation; it really was the opposite for me, and if you came to my club I would do anything I could to help get you in the air.

Where in NY do you live? Maybe someone can recommend a club?

I am glad you are on here venting and letting us know what's going on, rather than giving up. I am sure the end result of all this will be you having a blast flying a plane...somewhere.

Sorry I can't help with the plane suggestions. I learned on the Nexstar and loved it. I hope you get to put it to good use.

I can tell you for a fact that not all clubs for any function are created equal.
I have helped many get ham licenses for example while others were too busy to help.
It's like any other club. Hang in there and try to find someone that will help, it's out there.
I can tell you this, if you give up altogether and quit, you will never learn unless you just do it the hard way and that's both expensive and frustrating in almost any hobby.

stop blaming the instructors.they have volunteered their help at their convience,you need to make the time to be available when they are not the other way around.Sory if I sound harsh but as an instructor my self I have time to instruct and time for me as every one does.I will bend over backwards to help a new flyer if he listens to what I have to say and is available when I am.If you fail to listen and do your own thing so to speak I just walk away instead of wasting my time.it takes many hours to learn how to fly not just one outing,buddy box may be nice but it is not required to learn or teach.I remember abot 25 years ago a guy came out with a cox 2 channel foam cessna with a controller that was not like what we use.I ended up turning both stick assemblies so that rudder was on the left and elevator on the right and taught him in 4 minute flights.Find an instructor and make the time to meet when he is available.

My last young student started out at age 12, very nice kid but the last one I will teach to fly. He was so good at it that I held him back for one day before he did his solo, it took him two days instead of just one. I had my own trainer and buddy box, the only thing I require from a student of any age is they supply there own fuel. Here is the problems I have with anyone under the age of 16, you can't drive your own car and gear out to the field and during the school year you are stuck with weekends only to fly. These little problems really cut into the instructors time. I had to make sure I had room in my van for all of his stuff so I had to cut back on my own gear. I would get up early {5:00 AM here in the summer due to the heat} then have to drive out of my way across town to pick him up, most the time he was still in bed, that always made me very happy!! I spent one summer teaching him how to build a kit too, I had to drive over to get him or take him home, his mom and I took turns one way. During the school year all he had was weekends and he had a lot more things going on then just planes so he didn't get in a lot of stick time. By the time he was in his 13th year he was more into girls and other young mens interests, can't blame him for that either, I can still remember that driving force. By the time he was 14 I never got replys from emails or he wasn't home when I called, I told him to call me and that was the end of that.
From now on students of mine must be able to get there own stuff out to the field, that's when they get it though, because I still supply the plane and buddy box. I can't see someone going out and buying everything just to discover they aren't going to stick with it. Most the clubs I have belonged to also have a club trainer that is used so no one has to buy anything except fuel. If a student can make it to the field without my help then I will teach them, most of my students are over 55 though now days.
Like Joe mentioned, you may want to seek out a better club with better instructors, it isn't up to the instructor to provide the buddy cord either, you must find the instructor and match up to his gear. I only own one cord but I supply the buddy box too so it works for me.

Most clubs have a more formalized training schedule where you are all but guaranteed hands on training time.

Ours does this from 8:30 to 11:30 every other Saturday when the weather is good.

We have several instructors and at least one or two people who do nothing more than help people tune, setup and check out their planes and engines.

In attendance is also a co-ordinator for the whole event.

This is done entirely on a volunteer basis.

You should seek to use the formal training periods, instead of that provided on a more informal basis by individual members.

At our club, if you don't like how a particular instructor does things, you can simply walk over to another during the training sessions.

The plane that was recommended to you, the Nexstar is a perfectly capable trainer. No one did you a disservice by recommending it to you, though it sounds like you needed some help, which you did not get.

-

Neither of the planes you mentioned are good "beginners" park flyers, though they may be more suitable for someone beyond the beginner's stage.

They lack the forgiving and self righting characteristics needed for first planes.... something that your Nexstar does have.

Find yourself the formal training classes, show up with your Nexstar, and tell the trainers about the problems you have had with it.

Most club members are happy to help out novices, that is if the novice does not act as if this aid is something they "expect" for showing up.

I have also had similar poor experiences with students. Typically a young student will be brought to the field by a parent or grandparent for an initial lesson. Trying to schedule subsequent lessons becomes next to impossible because they have camping trips, boy scouts, soccer practice, family vacations, etc. When things finally slow down around November, they wonder why they can't get training time scheduled.

If you want to learn to fly, make the committment and get to the field when the instructor can make it. We have jobs that will take precedence. Pay attention, work with the instructor and a simulator together, and you should be flying in a few lessons.

Brad

Sorry to hear about your troubles Supercubfanatic. If I was closer I would be happy to train you. This hobby needs young people like you and without them this hobby will not survive. I have trained as well and have gone out of my way to meet the student at the field. What do I get out of it, the big smile and I don't ask for anything else. Keep looking for your instructor Super cub, when you find the right instructor you will enter a hobby that can and will give you many years of enjoyment. Sometimes the old way of thinking is hard to get around but when you do you will have the enjoyment of this great hobby to look back on. Good luck.

One of the most important observations that I've made with some of the younger students is that they tend to have very short attention spans. Then, most of them are in the "game mode" which means that they tend to use the controls as on-off switches, meaning full left or full right when a finesse movement of the sticks is necessary, if not required.

So, many of us feel that instructing youngsters, although is a good thing for the advancement of the hobby, and to introduce the younger generation to the hobby and to aviation, feel that it may be somewhat of a challenge than we anticipated.

That may sound harsh, but consider what happens when we say "slight left" and the student pushes the stick to the stop and the plane banks to a point where it trys to roll then dives in, requiring the instructor to let go of the trainer button and save the aircraft.

As I said, this isn't meant to be harsh, but is a reality. And, it is a product of the gaming generation where buttons are simply an on-off switches, without any, ANY finesse.

You just can't fly these things without learning the finer points of control and how to make subtle movements of the sticks, rather than movements from full left to full right, or full up, or full down, or some combination of that, always to the stops or the full extent of stick movement.

Again, I don't mean to sound harsh, but that's the reality of it.

So, in this case, a "rant" is paid back with a "rant" of sorts.

I am not directing this to the OP (original poster) but to some in general that are trying to learn to fly RC, and to try to offer an explanation the instructors that are trying to figure this out.

The best thing you can do, at this point, is to get the help of an instructor, and follow his/her instructions to the fullest. Learn from what he/she is saying to you and follow those instructions. You will find, eventually, however short or long that time is, that, in reality, this is not as difficult as you figured it might be, but more of a lesson in learning and listening, and that little bit of finesse that is necessary to fly these complicated gizmo's.

Best of luck.

CGr.

If you are in the Broome County area I can recommend the AGS Club. They have a student pilot school and will have instructors ready on the days the class/group meets at the field. The man who trained me was one of the most cantankerous and gruff people I know. And he was always there, always got me set-up and running, always made sure I knew the maneuver and could perform it in varying wind conditions and directions. Not what some would call a "good teacher", but he made sure I was taught and I appreciate his efforts in getting me airborn. Other students avoided him but I saw it as a challenge and I like challenges. Oh, he's also an international competator in FAI and IMAC. I can't imagine what his time was worth if he were to go pro as an instructor.

The AEROs that I belong to in Chenango Bridge are less formal and have no "official" flight school, so you should introduce yourself at a meeting and ask for help ahead of time. Not just appear at the field when guys are eager to fly their own planes after shuffling their schedules to do so. But we do require an interest in 1/4 scale and IMAA membership. Someone who has the time and initiative will likely volunteer to help you. Not a bad deal getting free help from someone who would normally charge $30 to $75 for an hour of his precious free time, or even more seeing as this would be time-and-a-half overtime.

Sometimes you just have to "Man Up' and do things on your own!

I appreciate all of the replies that various RC Universe members have posted. I agree that this thread could have had a better title, though "Rant about getting started" was all that I could think of at the time. Furthermore, I agree that I could have been a bit harsh on criticizing instructors, seeing as though most usually will go out of their way to assist a student. That being said, most of the time plane promlems (I will not buy an RTF again), weather conditions, and lack of guaranteed transportation hindered my learning schedule. It seemed that every time I came out to the field something prevented me from flying.
I am also inquiring as to whether or not any beginner park flyer ARF or "easy to build" kits exist?

If I may without sounding disprespectful, I'd like to retell your story from the perspective of a former beginner who is a trainer now.

First, you bought a completely inappropriate plane and didn't get any help flying it. Predictably, you broke it, and the hobby shop was right to tell you that a new fuselage was the best fix given your lack or repair skills at the time. Then you bought a more appropriate beginner plane, but still didn't get any help, and still didn't learn to fly successfully. You also didn't have the financial resources to keep your equipment in good shape or get the right stuff. I don't mean to say any of this was totally your fault, but it certainly wasn't anyone else's either, right?
Then you asked for help- good move. You listened to the instructors and bought an appropriate beginner airplane. You also put time into the hobby, coming to events and taking a class- good move again. But then you got upset when volunteers couldn't work around your schedule and you didn't take the time to learn how to set up and take care of your equipment, hence reliability problems. One instructor went out of his way to help you, but you didn't like him and didn't take advantage of his interest in you. You then lost interest in learning to fly nitro trainers because it wasn't easy enough or fast enough.

I say all of that to help you understand that this hobby requires comittment. A few guys get it in a week or two, but most don't. You have to be comitted to meet with instructors when they can meet with you, and you have to be comitted to maintain your equipment properly. You also have to be able to spend the money that the equipment and club dues require. For most high schoolers, 6 months is an eternity to stick with something. In this hobby, 6 months is enough time to be a good enough pilot where the others aren't afraid to be in the air at the same time as you. If you will make the comittment to work at the hobby and learn it, the reward is building skill in RC flight that lets you take an object that you built or at least set up, and make it do exactly what you want it to. This is real flying in miniature, and there is a great satisfaction in learning to do it well.

To answer your questions about airplanes- anything that is easy and fast to get in the air is going to be low performance. Stick with the nitro trainer and get the instruction you need. Listen to the guys who are willing to help you and show them that you apprciate whatever they do for you. Then work at flying until you are as good as they are.

I have to agree with GaryHarris, "Man Up". I had to in order to learn RC, but I had an extensive Controline, and Free Flight background that helped considerably. Try something like an http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=HBZ3600 Simulators help if you can get one or use one at a Hobby Shop. Also there are some pretty good videos that can help. Find as many training aids and use them and you'll be surprised how much less you will have to depend on the "experienced trainer". The guy who signed me off said he didn't have to help me at all, I flew the whole flight. So look for something easy to fly, study as much as you can, and get some initial help, and then get out to a field by yourself and really start learning. But do your homework before going out. If you don't read the instructions fully, you're asking for trouble.

And always remember, clubs will want your money up front, and assist you on their time, kind of like a bank.. lol  Not all clubs are this way.  i would recommend going to a field and talking with people, becoming friends with some, and flying with them.  Anyone can teach you the generals of flying, and you can learn a lot from reading forums on the net, and looking up things as well.  Good luck, and don't let anyone try to tell you that you must join a club.

I could pretty much quote Jester here, I originally tried to get into this hobby about 7 years ago, maybe 8 now. I bought a nitro trainer at the recommendation of a coworker, and met with his father to train. His father is one of the best pilots I have had the pleasure to watch fly, and is a very patient man. However, he will let you make your mistakes after asking you if you want help. However, he took me a long way away from home (By my then naive reconing anyhow) I actually had to drive 20 minutes to get to his preferred flying site! Then, he expected me to get up early as well. I worked grave yard at the time and didnt like getting up early on my off days.
Long story short, this man gave me far more of his time than I deserved, i did not learn to fly, because I couldnt be there consistently. I gave up, put up the bird and waited about 5 years. Then I got the bug hard, I was driving home past what is now my club field and saw a plane soar over the treetops. I had to go watch. So i went in and watched, ended up on a box with a member flying of all things a Kaos. I was hooked, but determined to do it right this time. Soo. I swallowed my pride forced myself to admit that it was in fact my fault I failed the first time, and spent the rest of that fall getting things in place so I could fly. AMA, engine cleaned up and ready, aircraft repaired and flight tested by the club instructor, and of course, club membership.
I took about 6 months to learn because as it turns out the instructor was a very busy man and had to cancel a few weekends due to personal issues I fully understand over. I kept going to the field with my plane and soon made friends. They informally helped me learn to fly, I soloed and never looked back.

The moral of this story so to speak: as you have been told instructors are giving of their flying time, so be patient. Find an instructor you can connect with regularly, and make sure its you doing the accommodating not him or her! Lastly, and most importantly, Have patience it might take you a year or more to learn this, but if you commit the time you will learn.

P.S. Were we in the same area I'd gladly train you, your story sounds so much like me I think we could hit it off. Unfortunately NY is a bit far for me to travel, and I'm guessing you cant just hop on the Concorde every weekend to come to McMinnville Oregon where I fly LOL

SuperCub...where in NY are you? Im in NJ, but only 15 minutes outside of NYC. I might be able to help you. PM me.

I can relate to what SuperCub has gone through. While I'm sure all of the responders meant well, it must be remembered that not all clubs, or instructors, are created equal. In other words, there are many that are good (beginner-friendly) but there are also some that are clique-ish, don't welcome outsiders with open arms, and in some cases are a group of snobs whose only desire for new members is to have someone to mow the field for them. If you are fortunate to be part of a good club, that's great, but please don't assume that all clubs are good. Being in the military, I tend to move around a bit and I've experienced both kinds of clubs. Believe me, there are some really snobbish ones out there! Unfortunately, many localities have only one R/C club so simply going to another one isn't always feasible.

On the other hand, I've personally witnessed lousy beginners too. I've seen guys show up at a flying field who expect everyone to drop what they're doing and cater to them. And like some of the instructors who've posted above, I've seen students who were less than committed to learning to fly. (R/C was just a passing fad for them.) And I'm not just talking about "kids"; I've seen adults and seniors act this way too.

So, some of the blame can be shared by both the new-comers and the experienced. In an ideal world, the obvious solution would be for beginners to exhibit a little more patience and realize that the club is not there just to serve them, and the experienced flyers need to remember that the club isn't theirs alone either.

Harvey

Supercubfanatic,

I suggest a simulator.

You've not learned on a couple electrics, and you're not finding compatible clubs or instructors. The flight simulator is ready when you are, and when you crash you just reset and take off again. There are cheap ones and there are expensive ones, and you could probably find a good used one. Some hobby shops have a demonstrator you can use in the store.

When you can handle the simulator, make an appointment with an instructor, and keep it. Buy your own buddy box and cord. Run your engine in the driveway at home, go over all the control surfaces and look for problems. Make sure you can assemble and start the plane easily, before you get to the field, and that the controls are moving the right way.

I guarantee success if you follow this formula.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

Just some suggestions to newbies reading this that would like to get help at a local club.

First, SPEAK UP!!!! Ask people standing around if there is an instructor or club member around. When you find either a member or instructor ask if there is a training schedule the local club offers. If so, be at the field at that time, ready to fly early if possible , especially if the club supplies a plane and buddy box for you. If you have your own, plane, first ask to make sure it's setup correctly. When you do find an instructor, don't be shy, ASK for help, sometimes more than once, as in the case where they're busy with another student or have one already in line. In other words, you should expect help, yes, but you shouldn't expect it to come find you always, you have to ask for help, and it really is your responsibility sometimes to remind a busy instructor that you're waiting for help. This is the biggest tip I can suggest. We usually have someone at our field that is willing to help, and I've seen people standing waiting for someone to ask them if they need help. I'm vp of membership for our club so on training nights I often ask if I see someone just standing around if they are interested in flying a club trainer and you'd be surprised how often they say yes, that's what they came for, but never they never speak up.

Second, listen to what an instructor says. They're trying to help but it's frustrating if a student doesn't seem to be paying attention or doesn't show interest or appreciation to what's being said. If you haven't got a plane of your own yet, ask for suggestions on a good training plane and on what equipment to buy and where you might get it.

Also, it goes along way to have a positive attitude. I've seen new students who comment about how long they have to wait for help (again, often after not asking for help). Remember that an instructor is volunteering their time and that they are doing so because they WANT to help others, but sometimes have a desire to fly themselves or have other students waiting in the wings, so a pleasant, positive attitude, with expressions of gratitude can go a long way to remind the instructor that you are there, waiting for help. You don't have to KA but put the shoe on the other foot, wouldn't you be more eager to help someone who showed signs of appreciation and gratitude, and who reminded you in case your mind was on something else at the time?

For training day, be at the field early enough to help set up. When I was training, I would help unload the trainer planes and equipment and fuel and help setup. Now that I train others, I really appreciate when students try to help out and not just stand there waiting for you to hand them the controls. Help setup, fuel the plane, help start it, carry it to the runway, etc. These things go along way towards a good training session.

Supercubfanatic,
After reading your post and taking into consideration everyone’s point of view regarding it, I suddenly feel like a most fortunate fellow indeed.

Back in 1972, money was tight, transportation even tighter. On weekends, I would walk down to the local modeler’s field just to watch the action. It was fascinating to say the least. I would sit quietly in a comfortable spot a short distance away and occasionally wave hello to the pilots. I rarely ventured any closer, not wanting to disturb their concentration.

Early one Saturday morning, a couple of the older pilots started walking over to my favorite vantage point. I fully expected to be asked to leave due to the fact that the club was indeed nestled on private property. Much to my surprise, I was invited inside the fence for closer look at everything they were doing. I’m sure they noticed the “kid in the candy shop” look on my face as I wandered the pit area asking ridiculous questions. Looking back, I can’t think of a single person who didn’t stop what they were doing to answer those same silly questions. There was no way I could afford this fascinating hobby and I’m convinced they sensed it.

For the next several weekends, I was allowed to assist the pilots in whatever manner they would permit – and was pleased to be able to do so. During one of the flying breaks, several of them approached me saying, “Hey, kid. Tell you what were gonna do.” One offered me an old trainer that needed work, another had a few old servos and radio to donate, still another offered to donate an old Fox .25 engine that could use a little cleaning up. I was stunned to say the least. I remember being told, “Kids like you are the future of this club, we’re just doing our part in getting you there.” It felt like Christmas!

These same men took me under their wing. Picked me up and drove me to the field for several months until I finally passed my drivers test. I remember doing odd jobs, scraping up the money for my first AMA dues – forgoing a much needed fuel purchase. They selflessly donated endless hours patiently training an uncoordinated teenager to fly. Occasionally, they spent extra time showing me how to properly repair my frequent mistakes.

Most of these men, my lifelong friends, are now long gone. I’m still here enjoying this hobby. You, or anyone like you, show up at any field I’m flying at and need help, I’m here! There will always be a certain debt I will forever owe my old friends.

Nice post, Dale!

Harvey

Dale54, Thanks for your post. It does my heart good to hear stories like this , and to know their are good people out there willing to help someone get started .
When I started 5 yrs ago, the first 2 Clubs I tried , were good old boyz clubs and it was nightmare dealing with them. 4 of us would show up for training and the Good old boyz would stand in a circle talking and making fun of the new guys. We were told to be at the feild for training on 3 different days and not one of us got anytime with a so called instructor.
The 3rd Club I tried was great, good people , without the big heads. I showed up with my planes and was made to feel welcome . I had already taught myself to fly ,but they still would help with problems or questions I had.
As others have mentioned, there are lots of good old boyz Clubs out there, but there are also many goodClubs and it takes time to sort them out.
Dont hook up with an instructor that every other word is I . I did this I did that , it,s all about me. You owe me , I,m the greatest ,etc. Stay away from these guys , they,ve turned more away from the hobby ,than they have helped .
When you do find a good instructor , show him respect and let him know you appreciate his time and effort. Their reward is seeing there student solo . I,ve seen this and felt it several times myself. I dont know who was grinning the most when I helped some solo, me or the new guy. lol
Keep looking for another club and take the advise of some of the instructors here on RCU gave you . If your a pain in the butt to deal with , you,ll find many dont want to invest their time in you. And I,m not saying your one of these , but you have gotten some good advise on how to handle yourself as a student.
Good luck and dont give up.