hey!.....don't be soooo hard on those 3Der's......ha! ha! ha!, i'm just kidding minnflyer, i'm one of them(3Der)......you know back in the day, dead stick landing was encouraged as another form of practice......the instructor that taught me how to fly also taught me how to practice coming in under no power.....my club used to sponsor 2-3 fun-fly's a year and dead stick landing was one of the event's we particapated in.....it was a timed event, we had one minute to take off and climb our plane as high as we could, then cut the motor and then dead stick the plane back to the ground, the pilot that could stay in the air the longest with no power won the event......not something a "newbie" sure be encouraged to try unless they're with a qualified instructor......understandably, a new pilot will panick and land right away when the engine dies/quits.....on the other hand, a seasoned pilot like myself(25+ years) can keep a standard trainer floating and thermaling in the air for quite a long time......you got to love those flat wing trainers......it's so discouraging to see these new pilot's wanting to break into the hobby without any guidence from a seasoned pilot.....in my 25+ years of flying, i've seen too many newbies buy a plane and try to go it alone, only to put it in the air one time and subsequently smash it into the ground and get so distraught at the loss and the cost of their new plane and quit and never be seen at the flying field again.....if they would've just invited some input from a seasoned flyer, their first encounter with radio control would be much more enjoyable and that first plane would have survived to fly another day.....just think of the benefit once this newbie masters the basic's of flying, he can move on to his second plane and thus free up that first trainer plane for the next person that want's to learn how to fly......that's the way we used to do it, back in the day, after mastering our first trainer planes, if we didn't find a buyer, we donated them to the club so that there were "alway's" planes available for instruction.....i know everytime i saw a newbie flying my old trainer, it brought a smile to my face the moment i saw them acheive their first loop or roll.....KOOLKRABBER47......

Pertaining to the seasoned pilot comment...


I couldnt agree more...I wish I had known of a local club with an instructor when I was learning....Wouldnt have saved any airplanes but it would have taught me a few things that I have had to learn from experience. The only problem I have seen is when a "seasoned pilot" is stuck on one line of thinking. Ive heard too many say things like, the best plane to learn on and the only plane I will instruct on is a Sig. Well me personally, I think that Sig's are some of the least attractive planes I have seen and I wouldnt own one. Nothing wrong with them, its just my opinion. An instructor should be open to teach a newbie pilot on any good trainer. But thats just one example. Another is that alot of instructors that I have seen will only train on nitro planes. Well, there are some very good electrics out there too. The Alpha and the Nexstar are two of the best trainers on the market, and you can get an electric verson of the Nexstar...but still Ive seen some instructors that refuse to train on the electric version. Personally, I believe that training on electric for the first flights is great...less chance of engine failure and therefor taking one or two variables out of the equation allowing the student pilot to focus on the flight itself.

Ive personally talked to people that get away from the idea of an instructor for these exact reasons...

I myself wasnt aware of any of the local clubs at the time...so I had to go it alone. Turns out there are three within an hour of my house. The main thing that people should realize is that everyone has their opinion, and thats all we have. We can advise people as to what worked good for us...but thats it. We cant tell people, go nitro if there interest is in electrics, or vice versa. Regardless of our likes and dislikes...this is a great hobby that can provide years and years of enjoyment for many generations and we need to be spreading the word...just a few points to remember when we start talking to someone less experienced than ourselves.

But then again, thats just my opinion...

TonyG

Teaching is not an easy task. You're not just teaching someone how to fly straight-n-level, a level turn or a loop, you are also teaching the newbie pre-flight setup, engine tuning and ground radio setup / trimming. If the instructor is not familiar with how to ground prep an electric trainer - don't give 'em a bad rap, take responsibility for him and help do the ground prep. If the instructor knows the Spektrum DX7 but doesn't have a clue about the programming of a Futaba radio, take responsibility for radio setup and trimming. Team work will result in a very successful training experience for the new flyer. They will be able to identify the go-to guys for their particular equipment.

On plane selection, fly what puts a smile on your face as long as it's within your flying skills. What puts a smile on my face might well turn you off. And, what you fly may put me off. That's cool. Diversity is a good thing, a very good thing.

Now if the snow would just melt ...

Seamus6,

Your absolutely correct...the only problem is when people dont like a particular brand or style, because it isnt what they use...thats the problems I have seen. After you have been in this hobby a while, you start to aquire more and more....but not everyone has the cash to go blow a fortune right from the starting line...you cant blame someone for not having knowledge on a particular piece of equipment.

And dont mention that S word...I live in the south east and people around here dont know how to drive when that stuff piles falls from the sky! One inch falls and everyone has to take off work because they just cant make it in through the storm....lol

TonyG

Tony does have a point. Personally, I'll help anyone with whatever they bring or let them use my planes. But a lot of the guys at my club are less enthusiastic about some trainers such as the Nexstar and Alpha 40. Not saying they aren't good planes, but these guys just don't like them. Show up with a Nexstar and they won't go out of their way to help, and if they do , the first thing they are going to do is make you mad by yanking off the speed brakes and other useless gadgets. Show up with an Avistar and you will get plenty of help. Not saying its fair, that's just how they are.
That's one reason a lot of people here on RCU reccomend getting help from a club. You'll get more help if you follow the advice of whoever is helping you. If you've got an instructor who is commited to helping you and he loves Nexstars, then you might be better off to get one. It wouldn't be my personal choice, just an example.

Hey Tony - I lived in Houston for a bunch of years. It snowed 100 miles north of the city and they shut it all down.

I'm lucky - my club has a training night Thursday of each week during the summer. We have a half dozen or so instructors that show up around 3 and hang til dusk. Sometimes we have 10 or so students with all levels of skills. Our phone numbers are also published on our website so students can call for other days. I happen to like to instruct with my own equipment so that that variable is not variable. When it comes to other's equipment I get nervous 'cause I'm pretty anal about setup but I will fly it with them. Ya do what ya can.

Btw, kinda fun watching someone with skills take some unfamiliar plane and make it dance in the sky. Show's the student what is possible with their plane.

Sorry to steer the thread off course...just had a phrase trigger me into another dimension....lol. I know for a fact that there are more great people out there doing all they can to help new pilots get started in this hobby...its just funny how the ones that are too set in their ways stick in your mind.

I live in central MS, just northeast of Jackson...it snows here about once every five years or so....people dont think twice about going jogging when the heat index pushes 110F...but freak out when a little frozen stuff is on the ground...it sleeted so much last year that there was a layer about an inch thick covering the ground. It happened around 9am...out of the blue. Businesses started shutting down putting everyone on the road headed home. I cant tell you how many people I saw in the ditch on my way home...Even the schools shut down. Was pretty funny...

TonyG

I was raised in Northern Lower Peninsula of Michigan and can completely understand why "black ice" is feared in the South. We seldom saw it in the North and wrongly mock Southerners for fearing it, as it is the most treacherous road condition possible except perhaps a severe white out.

this thread keep's getting more and more interesting, the direction it's taking.....in my 25+ year's of flying, i've taught well over 100+ people how to fly.....my old club was right off the interstate and as car's went by all day, people could see all the planes flying in the air.....mind you this was a big club, we carried a consistant 60-80 member enrollment base and there was alway's 15-20 people at the club field at any given time, sometimes more......these people would get off they interstate andpull up to the club and get out of their car's and just like that start asking question after question about getting into the hobby......i don't know if anybody else would've been as inclined as i was too assist these "potential" flyers but, i've alway's beleived in the saying that, somebody took me under their wing and taught me the ropes so i was gonna do the same for everybody else.....on the day's that i had scheduled instruction for a fellow club member, then i already knew to bring my "trainer plane" or tell the student to bring there's, if they had one....on the day's that i was just out flying and not expecting to teach anybody and didn't have an "actual trainer" available, if somebody pulled off the interstate and wanted to fly, who was i to deny them.....if i had one of my big 3Der's or my sport planes or one of my gliders or anything else, well we just put it up in the air and learned with that.....a good, seasoned pilot, with a well balanced and well trimmed plane that doesn't behave badly, can teach anybody how to fly.....i had a funny way of enticing these "prospective" new club members to give it a try......they would ask so many questions and i was more than happy to answer as best i can.....finally when they ran out of questions, i would ask them "well are you ready to fly".....you should have seen the look on their faces.....they would give me every reason why they wouldn't want to take this plane into the air......i would plead with them to let "me" take it into the air, it wouldn't take but a couple of minutes of their time and it wouldn't cost them a thing......that got them to at least follow me over to the flight-line and stand next to me, while i lifted one of my beautiful birds into the deep blue sky.....after i flew around for awhile and i did a couple of loop's and roll's and low, inverted fly-by's, so they could see what the plane and the pilot were actually capable of, i would again try to get them to take the sticks, but they refused because they were afraid to damage my plane, being that it was not their's......i landed the plane, fueled it up and took it back up in the air.....after a couple of wide-oval's, i would fly it out kinda far , line it up with the runway, set the trim and the throttle for slow and level flight.....the plane would crawl ever so slow right along the runway and i would put the radio down on the ground and walk away to my truck.....you guessed it, the plane was flying itself.....that person would look nervously at me and then look back at the plane, as it flew by itself......i would ask them if they were ready to fly now???....if they replied no, i would ask them why not.....then i would look down at the radio sitting on the groud and tell them, what are you waiting for, if the ground can fly that airplane, what's stopping you????.....i hooked more people that way......it just made more sense, how "relatively" easy it is to learn how to fly......i say "relatively" easy because you still have to have a good, skilled, pilot instructor.....also, i want to point out that the ideal situation would be to learn on an actual trainer but, any plane, when built right and more importantly, when built "straight", would be a suitable candidate, as long as you have a seasoned, qualifed, experienced pilot/instructor.....think about it......back in the day, when all of these people were pulling off the interstate and asking all these questions about getting started in the hobby, if i would've cut them off, so i could run home to get my "trainer" plane, chances are they wouldn't have been there when i got back and they would've never learned how to fly???.....cease the moment, i alway's say.....i taught 100+ people how to fly and therefore brought them into the hobby....now, if each one of them brought 2-3 people into the hobby and then those people brought 2-3 people into the hobby......oh,man! this could go on and on.....that's the spirit of the hobby.....if somebody took "you" under their wing and taught you how to fly, then why not pay the favor forward and introduce that person to new horizon's????......gotta love this hobby......GOODNITE.....KOOLKRABBER47......

Kookrabber,

Your absolutely correct...that is exactly the essence of this hobby....I could imagine the faces of all the people that saw you lay your transmitter down and walk away...And thats just the way we need to be when we are trying to show people this hobby. That it isnt difficult, all though it has its challenging moments. That its all about fun, and not about having the most expensive equipment or keeping up with what someone with 20+ years is doing. Kuddos to you sir...and thank you for your efforts!

TonyG

Big thumbs up to you KoolKrabber! Ya mean these things can fly without pilot input? Geez - who would'a thunk.

My club has an active (flying) membership of over 200. We should have at least 10 guys that are willing to train. Our VP is still messing with a trainer (NexStar covered like a roll of life savers). Pretty cautious pilot. I nearly had to beat on him to fly my Somethin' Extra. After he did he had a permanent grin on his face. Wonder what he's planning for the winter.

My personal training experience: I'm an instructor with a local road racing school. We sponsored an event at a local road course for Subaru North America on a Saturday. About 80 drivers showed up with Subaru officials co-hosting the event. All (well, almost all) went well. Thursday of that next week I was my LHS and saw a flier from a local RC club that included an open invite to training night (Thursday). Since I didn't have anything better to do I went to the field to check it out. Unbeknown to me the lead Subaru sled dog of the car event was an instructor at field. He was holding his trainer, radio w/ a buddy box, and a big smile. He commanded me to go fly with him. That was 2 years, 2 ARFs and 9 kits ago. I guess payback is a b**tch

[quote]ORIGINAL: SeamusG

Big thumbs up to you KoolKrabber! Ya mean these things can fly without pilot input? Geez - who would'a thunk.

My club has an active (flying) membership of over 200. We should have at least 10 guys that are willing to train. Our VP is still messing with a trainer (NexStar covered like a roll of life savers). Pretty cautious pilot. I nearly had to beat on him to fly my Somethin' Extra. After he did he had a permanent grin on his face. Wonder what he's planning for the winter.

My personal training experience: I'm an instructor with a local road racing school. We sponsored an event at a local road course for Subaru North America on a Saturday. About 80 drivers showed up with Subaru officials co-hosting the event. All (well, almost all) went well. Thursday of that next week I was my LHS and saw a flier from a local RC club that included an open invite to training night (Thursday). Since I didn't have anything better to do I went to the field to check it out. Unbeknown to me the lead Subaru sled dog of the car event was an instructor at field. He was holding his trainer, radio w/ a buddy box, and a big smile. He commanded me to go fly with him. That was 2 years, 2 ARFs and 9 kits ago. I guess payback is a b**tch



[/quote

NOW THAT'S FUNNY......payback "is" a b**ch, did you ever hear of "karma" and yes they can fly without pilot input,for short periods of time.....build 'em light or you'll end up with a "flying brick".....remember the term???......i do alotta research before i buy a new plane.....very important criteria it must meet is, power-to weight ratio and light wing loading.....build a light plane and you won't have to "over-size the motor"(simple math?)......my sig e-force with motor, battery,esc,servos,receiver,etc. comes in, all up weight of 15oz.......my precision aerobatics badboy v2 53" wingspan-805 inch wing area-12oz./sq. ft. wing loading with o.s. 46ax, servos,receiver,battery,etc., comes in at less than 5 lbs........my next plane will be the new precision aerobatics extra mx with 58 inch wingspan-52 inch length-721 inch wing area-12 oz./sq. ft. wing loading and still come in at @ 3 1/2 pounds all up weight and that's with 2 11.1v 3s 30c 2500mah batteries installed.....should be a beauty and in the hand's of the right pilot, the possibilities are endless.......KOOLKRABBER47.......

SeamusG.....how good are you on the stick's with that sig something extra???.....MAN, i've witnessed, firsthand what those SSE's are capable of when built right.....i'd say about 10-15 year's ago, when the kit version first came out, this young hot dogger in our club bought one in kit form and strengthened it up really good......he would bring it out to the club field and 3D it, really put it thru the wringer if you know what i mean???....mind you this was 10-15 year's ago when 3d and profile planes were not even invented yet.....at the time this kid was the only one flying like this.....we'd sit there and watch him put this plane thru the wringer, right over the runway.....man, what a sight.....he finally snapped the wings in half, no problem, he ordered another and had it back out, within a matter of weeks.......GOTTA LOVE THOSE YOUNG GUYZ???.....KOOLKRABBER47........

On high rates it seems that it will loop in its own length. Roll rate perhaps 900 degrees per second. I set mine up for more pattern flying. 360 degrees per second and a 15+ second 1/2 elevator loop. Well balanced, good 1/3 - 1/2 throttle performance with an OS 46 AX and APC 12.25x3.75 prop. Then there's the guy who stuffs a Saito 115 on the firewall - 3 step take off to full unlimited vertical ...

Only difficulty has been a Tx / Rx mis-communication that resulted in a full throttle down line from 100 feet. Buried in hard pan well past the firewall. Gives me an excuse for building another.