I am interested in getting my first pattern plane. Probably something in the 60 -90 size. Don't want to have to sell the farm in order to buy it. I purchased a Venus on ebay but then the person refunded my money, said it was to costly to ship. Any help would be appreciated. If some one has one they want to sell pm me.

I'm not into patter flying btu the Venus is a nice airplane. I also hear that somen of the Phoenix Models pattern type planes fly well.

Give gaRC a PM, Joe is up to something new and may be selling some of his stuff. I know he has a Venus but don't know if it's on his hit list or not.

the spot on by world models is a good starter pattern plane..... Put an os 55ax and youll have a nice plane

You're best bet is to find a local pattern competition and see how the planes perform. There is such a wide selection, it really depends on your personal skill level and comfort zone. Heck, for the Money the U-Can-Do 60 or the Giant U-Can-Do make excellent pattern training ships. Everybody flys them like a 3D machine, but it really a pattern design that's been souped up a bit.

Brad

Irish:

I have the Venus II and power it with the OS 1.20 AX and it is an outstanding entry level pattern plane.

Actually, there are several planes that will fill the bill for entry level pattern. I also have a Goldberg Skylark 70 which, when set up correctly, and trimmed properly (as all pattern planes require) will do everything up to and including Master class pattern. Mine was flown by the club pro and, after we played with it a bit, setting up both mechanical and electronic adjustments, flys almost as good as the Venus II does.

If you have a the RF G3.5 or better, and have Expansion Pack 2, the Venus is one of the planes in the collection. And it flys very realistically in the sim as the real one does. Unfortunately, the Skylark 70 is not included in any of the expansion packs.

By the way, my Skylark 70 is powered by an OS .75 AX and it too performs as you would expect an OS AX series to perform, and is more than enough engine for that plane.

When I was starting out in Pattern several years ago, my instructor, Ron Lockhart (his son is Dave Lockhart, by the way.. and is well known in the pattern community) told me that even my Tiger 60 would be sufficient to get me into and through the Sportsman pattern category, if it is set up properly. So, you have many choices for an entry level pattern plane, from a good second or third plane like the Tiger 60 up to and including something like the Venus II.

By the way, I also have an Excelleron 90, which is an intermediate pattern plane similar in design to the Venus II, but uses pull-pull cables for the elevators and rudder. It too is powered by the OS 1.20 AX (yeah, I like those OS's.. ). I fly both of them, but really like my Venus II. I set it up somewhat different from what the manufacturer suggests, using Sullivan Carbon rods for the elevator and rudder. I can explain my setup to you via Email and attached document if you wish, and if you decide to get one. I set up my Skylark very simillarly.

CGr.

any one know where the best place to buy the world model spot on. I only found two places that carry it. Maybe my google search is not working well.

Gene:

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2418

They also make a 120 size at $399.99

Dick

I flew my pal's CM Pro Swallow, its not bad, decent enough but nothing to shout about ... old plane now but who knows that might fit the cheap bill.

Thanks Dick.

That was one of the two that I found. I have several engines that would fit that size plane. If I go to the 120 I would then have to buy an engine for that. I have a OS 55ax or some magnum 4 strokes 70 and 91. BTW smoked ham, homemade biscuits, amish peanut butter spread and one egg. Hummmmmmmm!!!!!! good.

This was my dinner, just about 45 mins ago ... heheheheee ... good fish!

me thinks me pass. What kind of fish is it.

Its steamed fresh water fish with a nice spicy sauce ... hahaahahaa ... its taste really nice. No funny stuff in it. Back to planes ... the Fliton Inspire is suppose to be nice, read some reviews on it in RCG.

Well, Gene, I can tell you that my alternate suggestion, the Goldberg Skylark 70 is one fine plane. It is an old-style pattern, and is included in the classic pattern organization, I think it's called "Senior Pattern Association" or SPA. They have a list of allowable planes that can be flown in their organization. The Skylark ARF is included.

I had a Skylark 56 back, oh, 10 years or so ago, and it flew grand.. except for my inexperience flying in high wind.. ouch.. but I replaced it with the one I have now, which is a .75 version and those four stroke engines would do just fine.

As I said earlier, once set up properly, the club pro did his whole Master class routine and really enjoyed flying the plane. It was not the same as his 2 meter all-out pattern plane, but it just fine for what it was designed to do. And, I enjoy flying it just for sport. Worth taking a look at for either the smaller version (if it's still available) and the 75 size ARF.

I cheated. English muffin with egg white and turkey sausage, two cups of 2% milk and a banana. Bland, but about as good as it gets in this FAA cafeteria.

Dick.

I forgot to tell you. I picked up some real nice Austrian smoked ham last week while I was in Salzburg. Real nice stuff. BUT... the Customs Agriculture folks confiscated it from me on my way back in to the US at Philadelphia. Boo-hoo. They said "Mad Cow" issues with non-certified meat products from Germany, Austria, and other European countries. Double boo-hoo.. []

Dick.

http://www.gravesrc.com/AIRBORNE_MOD...p/abma249r.htm thats where i ordered both of mine

edit one of mine had an os 70, and was too nose heavy, and not enough power..

My best setup was with a 55ax and tuned pipe, with 225mgs all around and std throttle servo

There are some very nice choices out there for folks wanting to fly a Pattern ARF on a budget. For a .60 to .90 size ARF, I'd recommend the World Models Intruder 90R:

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2395



At $199.99, the Intruder 90R is very affordable while still being quite capable of flying the Sportsman or Intermediate schedules very competitively. Better yet, a simple $139.99 Magnum XL .91 RFS 4-stroke would be a great power choice for the Intruder 90R:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/210868.asp



You can put together a very nice flying pattern plane for even less. I'm a big fan of the Phoenix Models SeaBee ARF:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGTS5&P=7

The Seabee will fly great with any .46 ball bearing 2-stroke or .52 ~ .62 4-stroke. The SeaBee is a very high quality ARF that is easy to build and flies great. Below is a video of me flying one with a Magnum XL .52 RFS on it:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLvbke2moDU[/youtube]

Good luck and good shopping!

Ibelieve Airborne Models is the US distributor for World Models. They have the Spot-On 50.

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2418

Gene, is a kit or plans build out of the question?? If a SPA is something you could use I have a number of sets of plans for the old school pattern planes from class C, they all ran 60 two strokes back then.

Well, I purchased the spot on 50. I would really like to get involved in the Senior pattern ( I guess you would call it competition). Now just have to find out what I need to pratice. Any one know what the routine is for the seniors? Will let every one know how I like the spot on 50. Gray BeardI do a lot of scratch building so I would be interested in what you are offering. Let me know what you have and how much. Thanks bunchess guys.

There are a number of good airplanes out there to get started in pattern with.

I took up pattern flying about a year and a half ago starting with a Tower Kaos 40 w/a OS 46AX it still flies great. The Kaos is fine for SPA pattern (Senior Pattern Association) as its an older pattern design but a bit harder to see well if you fly AMA turnaround type pattern. I then purchased a World Models Intruder as a second SPA pattern bird a better flier than the Kaos, but eats up a lot of real estate making it harder to stay in the box flying AMA turnaround. I am now mostly flying a Venus II w/ a OS 1.20AX for power for my AMA pattern trainer it should take me up through intermediate class with no problems. Large enough to see well flying the line out a 150-175 meters on center and then out to the side poles.

One of the problems with the smaller bird both the .40 and .60 sizes is seeing them well flying larger maneuvers at AMA standard box distances. My suggestion is to purchase as much airplane that you can afford the larger the better within the 2 meter and weight requirements with more than adequate power. SPA has a different set of rules vs AMA regarding power and age of airplane design one can fly for contests.

SPA pattern is a good place to start pattern flying as it has does not use a box just center judged maneuvers. That allows the pilot to fly in closer and use any type of turnaround that is convenient to re-enter for the next maneuver.

Welcome to pattern!

Hi Steve.

You are right about the Venus II. We've talked about that plane. It is indeed a nice plane, but, since it is a modern classic pattern design, is it "qualified" for SPA? For that matter, is the Spot On 50?

I just checked the SPA "Approved Planes" list and neither are on it. See http://www.seniorpattern.com/planes.asp

They recently added the Skylark 70, though, and that plane will work just fine with the original engines you listed in the original post. One nice thing about any larger aircraft, especially for those of us that are getting senior discounts.. [X(] is the visibility.

Dick.

Dick,

Neither the Venus II or the Spot-On would qualify for SPA. All the pattern associations AMA, IMAC, SPA allow interested folks to fly whatever they have for an airplane as introduction to their type of flying in their basic classes. So if you've got a aerobatic airplane of some sort give a go and see how you like pattern.

There is no doubt the airplanes designed specifically for pattern fly better than say a sport flier. My Venus II for instance will fly pattern maneuvers quite well in the right hands (not necessarily mine [&o]). However, there is a big difference between it and a good 2 meter pattern ship the required investment shows it. Frankly I'm just not at that proficiency level yet to make that type of commitment or investment. SPA pattern on the other hand allows for relatively inexpensive pattern flying and fun.

I pulled up the Link that CG offered on SPA. Are those the routine that you have to do in SPA. If so, I am in trouble. At this point I am not flying anything that does an 8-point roll worth a darn. Maybe I need to look at a pattern program that is not at rigid at this one. That is, If all of the maneuvers listed are used in the SPA. Looks like about 27-28.[&o][&o] I thought for us old folks they would make it easier I guess I am asking what are the required maneuvers for the SPA competition.

Irish,

Unless your someone who has flown pattern before very few of us are going to start out in a higher competition class. SPA has a "novice" class which gets new fliers going in the sport. Here is the link to the call cards http://www.seniorpattern.com/pdf/SPA...DS09-10pdf.pdf If you will notice there are no 8 point rolls in novice. Each class of flying is a building block for the next class. Once your proficient in a class and have won or placed well in competition its time to move up starting to practice at the next skill level. There is a description of the maneuvers in "improve your flying" in the blue area of the SPA home page.

Most folks stay in a class for a year or more before moving up depending upon how much time and effort you put into practicing.

The key to it is to practice one maneuver at a time and when you have a number of them somewhat down start putting them together into the flying sequence. For the most part we all have to crawl before we can run so this all takes time and practice. The fun is in the journey. You'll be shocked in how much your flying will improve.

Steve