got tee in my fuel line,just got this phoenix 300s with cowl and I mounted my evo. 61 nt which might be to heavy for this plane.But,that is another post another day.I blew througt the lines and the tee is in the carb line.There is a 5"hose with aplug in it for fueling.The problem is that the fuel is coming out the carb at the same time as the tank is being filled.
1. Do I need to reach in there with a set of hemostats and clamp off the carb side of the fuel line when filling or what?
2.Do I add another line to this tank for filling only,Then I have the issue of getting the fuel out.
3.The cowl makes it very hard to get my hands in there to pinch off line.
any suggestions will be a big help
chet from fl

You can run a third line out the bottom of the cowl for filling or use the muffler pressure line. You can de-fuel through the T-fitting. If you run a third line, run it to the back of the tank and you can use it to de-fuel (with a clunk). You may be able to use a fueling valve monuted in the cowling wall, but they are notoriuosly unrelaible over time. Otherwise you will have to use a hemostat which may damage your fuel line.

Paul

sounds great butplugging and unplugging fuel lines/muffler lines is a real bear on thisplane. the line coming off the tee is hanging out the bottom of the cowl.I think I am going to use the hemostats and replace the line when needed.I could screw inon my high speed needle then screw it out but I think thats a little much.Or maybe that is exactly how its done.Dont know I am just two planes and two months into this hobby
thanks chet form fl

I went down this sliperly slope a while back. It almost cost me a plane and did cost me a lot of fiberglass cowl work.

Take all the Ts out of the system. The three line fuel system is the cleanest for cowled engines. Normal Clunk to the carb. Second Clunk on the fil/defule line. Third is a normal vent to the muffler. The second clunk will use a fuel dot to plug the line when not fueling or defueling.

My mistake was to use a T in the carb line with a plug on the filler. I was ok on fueling as my fuel dot was straight to the tank, but without a clunk, just a second vent type line. I would fill until the tank overflowed into the muffler. A little messy, but OK. But to defuel, I had to use some forsceps to pinch off the line between the T and the Carb, otherwise it just sucked air from the carb and never emptyed the tank. Well that worked OKthe first day. The second day out with the plane, it stumbled once when Iran it up priro to take off. I couldn't get it to stumble again, so I took off, well almost, A stumble just as I was rotating and then dead stick with a barbed wire fence comming on fast. Lots of fixing needed. The stumble was because when I used the forcepts, I cut a couple holes in the fuel line to the carb. Under full throttle, it sucked air, and went dead stick. I've replaced the T and added the second clunk and all is well. Just keep the second clunk line and brass short. You only need the clunk for defueling, so it doesn't have to do any job other than suck the bottom of the tank when the plane is setting level.

Don

PS, I'm not a fan of pinching a fuel line with anything much rougher or harder than my fingers now.

ok don sounds like youve been there too. is there a fuel line part out there that adds a third line to a tank or do I buy a three line tank
thanks

Most fuel tank stoppers can easily be converted to a 3-line setup. Take the stopper out of the tank and it should have 3 holes in the rubber, with the 3rd hole sealed off. All you need to do is open that third hole up and put a piece of brass tubing through it for the third line.

Ken

I will probably get beat on, but I think the best thing is a Kwik-fill fueling valve. Just put in the line from clunk to carb. When you plug in the fuel probe, it cuts off the line to the carb. Works great for fillling and emptying both. Now, I know lots of folks have problems using these valves, citing air leaks, stopages, ect. With a good fuel fillter, most problems can be eliminated. Best thing is to always check your system prior to takeoff. Use, it, but don't trust it. Always check!!

The most trouble free, Cheapest, easiest to use and reliable system possible: Two lines just like a trainer.

John

I just use a 2 line setup on my phoenix 300. I chopped a hole in the top of the cowl to have easy access for refueling without filling up the carb using a 3 line. All I do is remove the line from the fuel filter on top, fill the tank, and when it drips out of my pitts muffler I know its full. My overflow line stays connected to the muffler at all times. I build my planes to fly, not to look at!

On the two line system what keeps the line falling off the brass tube in flight? Do you put barbs on it? If i were to do the two line Id use the fuel filter route. What Id worry about is having sediment on both sides of the filter since its used for filling and pick up.

I like using [link=http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN115]this[/link] with a 3 line setup. I can put a filter in the pick up line and one on my fuel pump. I never remove or touch the vent/pick up lines unless i need maintenance. That way the only line that should wear out is the filling line. Make sure there is some extra loop inside and cut off the worn part as needed... "never" have to replumb the airplane!

The overflow line doesn't fall off the brass nipple on the muffler in flight. I don't use any barbs on this hookup. I refuel and defuel through the rear line of the fuel filter and when the engine is drawing fuel no sediment gets into the engine.

Opps, I thought you were talking about My setup.....sorry

Add a third line (all you need is another piece of brass tubing - most tanks are set up to accomodate a third line like RCKen said) and plug the line with a fuel dot.

The third line can be usd for both filling and de-fueling

The Fuel line does not fall off the short brass coupler tube any more than it falls off virtually every brass tube of the same size on almost all the tanks out there, barbs are not neccessary and its not neccessary to poke a third hole in the fuel tank. This is a superior system on the majority of ariplanes out there not all but most since this is in the beginers forum, yes the majority.
It so simple, so cheap and so reliable that folks get mad when you suggest it.

I use the three line system on my cowled in engines. If the muffler is also cowled in, I put a tee in the muffler pressure line and run it to a second fuel dot. Then when fueling the plane I connect an overflow tank to the second dot/line. In this way excess fuel goes into the overflow tank with very little going to the muffler. I currently have 5 planes set up this way and it works great.

Bruce

I've used Minn's photo #1 system for many years and never had a problem. Almost all my planes are cowled and this system works very well. By the way, a good substitute for the fuel dot is the head of a large wood nail, cut about 1/2 " long. Do not use a bolt as a fuel dot. Air and fuel can leak around the threads.

Paul

I use the three line most the time but add a clunck to the fill/drain line so I can drain the tank all the way. Only advantage three lines has over Johns two line is the fuel line looks a bit cleaner. They both work very well. Whenever I remove the bung on a fuel tank I replace it with a new one unless it's a very new tank. Most hobby shops have them in stock. They tend to take a shape and you can get air leaks with the old one. I keep the spares in stock in my shop, they are about three bucks so better safe then sorry.

Over the years I've tried all of the above but have now hit a new to me problem, a 'Hayes tank'. This is a wonderful tank for two lines but I hve no idea how to get the third 'defuel line to work the way I would like.
The fuel pick up line is a normal clunk and there are two moulded spigots for the other two lines. One is open the other needs to be drilled out. But how to get a pickup line in the tank for defueling. I'd appreciate any ideas or suggestions.
The only way I can see to defuel is the stand the plane on its nose.

I agree with you the Hayes tanks are the best. However they must be mounted upright and they are intended and best used with the two line system. That combination is the best avalible. Insistance on using a third line will serve no useful purpose. You fuel and defuel through a break in the carb line as I posted a picture of. Its easy to run that line through cowling in all sorts of clever ways that look great.

This setup also provides a very important to me anyways method of pinching the feed line while the engine is running. When someone comes to me to test fly there fancy new warbird something or ruther. If its a two stroke and the lines inaccessable I won't fly it since it cannot be pinch tested. These are usually the same folks who refuse the let the hot air out of their cowlings too and you know darn well those engines are gonna be flaming out every time.

John

John, I've got a couple planes that I basicly use a 2 line setup with extentions through the cowl for fueling and defuling. I've also got a couple that that system just isn't pratical, and a three line setup is required. My first choice in a setup is an open engine so I can get to the lines with no problems. I say lines because if I can, I use a closed system for fueling and defueling. I run the vent to the top of the jug for both fueling and defueling, although I seldom defuel a tank, but rather plug both lines at the end of the day. Again, the pesky exceptions get in the way and defueling isnessary, so a good three line setup is required.

Gene, i've had two of the tank bungs go south on me in the last year. They do tend to take s set when installed then shrink from there. It sure makes one glad that they put a drain in the tank compartment and also didn't built the tank in place.

Don

I prefer the dual-klunk method for a simple cowled set-up (Using a Hanger 9 fuel dot), but failing that a hemostat with the jaws cushioned with some scrap fuel tubing slipped over then will prevent damage to the engine tubing. Take a 1-1/2" piece and slit it halfway through across the mid-section and then slip the hemostat tips in through the slot and run one tip out each side.

I havs also had good luck with the Sullivan fueller valves - but have heard they, like all, will eventually fail. Hasn't yet for me.

I normally setup the 3rd line with a clunk in the same manner as the fuel pick-up line. But if you don't have the materials to make a second clunk line you can make a pick-up setup that works almost as well. Feel the tubing for the 3rd line through the stopper so that it's bent towards the bottom of the tank. Before it's placed in the tank put a small piece of fuel tubing on it so that it just barely reaches the bottom of the tank. Then when it's time to de-fuel the plane simply tilt the tail of the plane upwards and suck the fuel out. With this setup you'll be able to get almost all of the fuel out of the tank.

Ken

RC Ken,

When you are refueling how do you keep the fuel from filling up the carb in that setup?

bigdan, When fueling with that setup, it's easier for air to escape from the top vent line than for fuel to travel through the line. So the fuel will stay put and the air will vent out the top.

I have abandoned the 2 clunk setup and just go with a line bent toward the rear corner of the tank like the illustrations above. After all, why use a clunk? You're not going to be doing loops and rolls when you're de-fueling

how do you hook up a gasoline engine without the line going to the exhaust?

Just vent the line out the bottom.

With a gasser, you can put a "T" in the feed line because the carb has a pump which won't allow fuel past it unless the engine is running