Well I'm sure it's been punned before but "I've lost my Edge".

It's a long story and I rarely post anything on RC Universe but must say right here it is the absolute best collection of valuable information on RC in the world. I will be brief.


Lanier Edge 540 1.20 with OS 1.60FX. Hitec HS77BB low profile aileron servo's, Hitec 645MG Ultra Torque for the Rudder on pull/pull, Hitec 645MG Ultra Torque on a fiberglass rod running to an MK bellcrank for elevator.
one 6V 1200mah NimH and a futaba FM receiver. Futaba 3004 in motorbox for throttle.

The long and short of it is that, as my first plane that wasn't sporting rubber bands to hold the wing on, I built it by the instructions. WRONG!!!

Five Heartattacklandings of a tail heavy airplane and five accompanying broken landing gear repairs with prop had me ready to dump the hobby altogether. Each event brought some corrective measure in an attempt to find a compromise between balance, weight and radio programming. (research and mfg advice said "other people fly it like that "And "ignore the instructions and fly it"
... "that's nice" I say.

Stock, with servos in tail and, originally, a Saito 180/24oz tank, required 3 lbs of brass in the motorbox to balance the plane conservatively which it really needed to be for a beginner like me to start with (sorry about all those commas). This brought the plane to 15lbs. Between the gas tank and brass weights to balance the plane I actually got it to fly.
Jimmy Doolittle would have been proud to see me lift that heavy beast off on our short field!!! (but damn if it didn't need some rolling room to land and ran off the end of the field and back to the hangar for gear and prop).

Replaced the two servos in the tail, which were originally the HS77BB low profiles because the fuse was too narrow at the cutouts for standard depth servos. Installed an MK bellcrank and one servo adjacent to pull pull and near CG instead of two in tail. Installed OS160 to carry less fuel and have good power, light weight, fair price etc. Pushed the 160 as far forward as cowling would allow without having to sheet and cover and still put about 1/2" between the cowl and spinner. Battery pack in motorbox and stock fuel tank.
(note here...due to the long and narrow fuel tank there was no way the fuel line holding the clunk weight was going to bend and drop the clunk to the front in long vertical dives .I used a heavy clunk on standard tubing and bent the vent tube to avoid the possibility of the clunk catching or looping...then check the clunk often!)

So to sum it up I lightened the plane up as much as I could and moved everything that I could possible move to the front of the aircraft. In addition the stab hinge line was discovered to be out of alignment by about 3/4 of an inch at the tip. Once replaced with stabs that actually may have come off of the same jig, the stab was epoxied.
(It was at this time in my hobby career that I was reading a lot of posts about Building ARF's and all the sentiment there!)

In it's final condition and refusing to add any weight to balance after all of that...I got the CG to about 5.25".
still about an inch away from the conservative...I gave it several more shots.
Props and Landing gear daily for a week. I just couldn't seem to get the hang of landing this thing and in one attempt stalled the wing and slammed it pretty good and knocked the motorbox off.

Prop, Gear, Replaced gears in one aileron servo, Motorbox fix and a long talk with myself, concluding that I am trying to fly a tail heavy airplane and I don't have the experience for this yet. I can hover and knife edge and do all that groovy stuff. In fact for a guy of my experience perhaps it's doing 3D a litte TOO EASY.
so I said "SELF...lets go nose heavy and try it". (and I heard this little voice in my head way back there scream (FINALLY!).

Grabbed a one lb chunk of brass and tucked in the motorbox with battery. CG check at about 4" and took her to the field.

I didn't do an engine on range check and I should have after a hard crash like that. (correction: "...and I should every time I fly")
But, as I typically do, I adjusted mixture at full throttle and checked all surface deflections at all rate settings with full throttle and all seemed well.
(NEWBEES BEWARE: This is where an engine on range check with antennae down could have revealed impending doom! I've "Got the T shirt" now. Never AGAIN!)

It lifted off great! No sudden loft indicative of it's tail heaviness, instead of lifting itself off of the ground it seemed I pulled it off the ground this time and it felt good. Warm Fuzzy all over an... *SHOCK* as at around 150 feet away from me and 15 feet alt., when I was just getting ready to rotate it just roooolllled over nice and slow. It didn't respond at all to input or, if it did, it was really vague.

So I took it home and put the battery on my accucycle and measured the time of discharge at 500mah. It took 99 minutes.
to discharge what was in that 1200mah battery. I can't recall the time it usually takes for a full discharge but it seems that 99 more minutes at 500 mah should have been enough. Check me on this but that is about 750 mah remaining. I guess a thorough check of the state of this battery pack is in order regardless.

I also had been ignoring a throttle rod that ran through the firewall and in part of it's travel would deflect enough to possibly make contact with a metal threaded insert in the firewall nearby.

So in the end I am left wondering what it was and how to be sure...like so many before me.

"Could it have been the throttle rod touching the metal?"
"Did my NimH battery go over the falls?"
"Maybe the Brass caused some interference...but I have flown it with three of those slugs in the motorbox before...Remember the Doolittle Raid?"
Double check that aileron servo I rebuilt...seems okay...a little noisier than the other but refuses to show any anomalies even after the crash.
Lots to contemplate...


Just trying to figure out how I am going to "...get the love back"


I have another Edge and a GSP Katana just sitting here. An OS 160 and a Saito 180.
But I just can't get myself interested.


"Be certain of one thing...you can never be certain of anything"
__my Dad (among others I'm sure)

You certainly made up for your lack of posting with this one. War and Peace should be as long.

Well, if you find that you just can't "get the love back", let me know and I'll take those engines off your hands. After all, I wouldn't want them sitting around stirring up bad memories.
Dennis-

All were warned...Subject reads "Verbose..."

Construction on the Katana has begun...slowly...and starting first with a bellcrank!


"Brevity is the soul of wit"
__Shakespear

At the very least I would recommend you send your reciever in for a check-up. After soooo many hard landings and what appears to be a terrible ending to your edge, I would have to suspect the reciever.

Secondly, you can obtain a voltage meter for minimal money that will give you an honest readout under the load of the plane which installs in the plane. Servos that have taken a hit are sometimes working well but inducing a substantial load on the battery while doing so. An indication of this is louder noise.

Finally, Bell cranks do work well but are old technology. A better solution might be to install a pull-pull on your elevator. An excellent example of this is in the Dave Patrick Ultimate review that is in the magazine section of RCU. The Katana that you are building is notorious for coming out tail heavy with OS 2 strokes so I would be careful if I were you in building it. The design is more aerobatic then most edges so therefore much less tolerant of errors.

As always, these are only my opinions, they may not be worth the electric it took you to read them.

Thanks for the info...you're right...even if the receiver turns out to be OK...the key is enjoying one's self and that comes with the comfort of knowing that your equipment is 100%.

I immediately fell back on my avistar trainer to keep me enthused and work on getting the love back. I removed the receiver from the Edge and the battery pack and switch and installed it right away in the Av. I flew it for a couple of weeks and well, I must say, it was not glitch free.
There were several instances that a hard pull to vertical caused the Av to snap vertical much more abruptly than my senses were telling me was normal. So this receiver (in fact all my receivers) are going back to the shop. I checked my crank ratios on the Av to make sure I wasn't over extending the angles therein. Checked my epxo and all looked Ok so I will start /have started over completely.

Pretty hard getting the love back when the next ARF you step up to is so crooked. It should be obvious in the picture I posted at the end of my other [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1050950/mpage_14/key_/anchor/tm.htm#1284962]post.[/link] Although
I should have put more info in there regarding those pics. One is of a level laying across the deck surface at bubble level
I then inserted the wing tube (which is frighteningly short!) through the entire depth of the fuse but extending as far to the right as it's length would allow. One can see clearly that the plane of the stab is way off relative to the wing tube...and the tube looks pretty parallel to the level and deck.

I think what I might do is stick a bunch of wet laundry in the dryer, stick the hose in the fuse and steam the fuse to soften it, and then carefully block it up and twist it straight and let it cure.

Now I have to ask though, had I been smart and slid the wings on dry, and discovered the axis of the two tubes to be so far off, would it have been practical to call the distributor, pack it all up and ship it back? Fixing the problem with an ARF is easier than building an entire plane, and A LOT easier than the trouble of returning it.

So in your opinion a pull pull is preferable to a FG pushrod and bell crank? I will say "old" technology is not necessarily bad technology...especially when it endures the rigors of time. I would imagine that Pull Pull technology is not much newer...but when one has a choice...what has proven to be the preferred method?

I really liked the idea that everything was solid rod all the way from ONE central servo and the crank creates a solid link between the two elevator halves and removes the hassle of matching the two and keeping them matched at all times (electronically).

Cheers!

Yes, I'll take either that Saito or the 160FX. They would serve me well..

Deadtired, I always "dry fit" arf's together as much as is practical before I commence to build them looking for any issues like you found with yours. So far I have been lucky and haven't had a problem like yours. In the event that I had found a plane to be that far out of square I think I would have sent it back but honestly, I don't know wether I would have noticed it had I been in your shoes. Haven't tried "steaming an airframe but I used to repair old wooden boats and we did steam bend the ribs for them so I think you may have a valid technique there. I would love to know how it turns out for you.

Personally, I like the pull pull method for rudders, I use it on most of my planes. Everything over .40 size anyway. When it comes to elevators it can be a trade-off as they are a hassle to get correct but once they are installed properly there is NO slop which is always a good thing. Dual servo's on the elevator is the preferred way to go but does add weight to the tail end of the plane. Rods, whether made from fiberglass, wood, steel or carbon fiber will all flex a little bit after they reach a certain length and they always seemed to me to be just a little less precise then the cables.

The advantage to dual stab servo's is two fold. One is redundancy which is always a good thing (most planes can fly with only one elevator half) and the other is the programming advantages you gain by being able to control the elevator halves independantly. With proper mixing you can do things not possible with a single elevator control.

I went through a period earlier this year when it seemed every plane I had had issues and it was pretty depressing. Hang in there and I'm sure you will get the enjoyment back. If you want a piece of advice (not that you are asking) get yourself a nice cheap aerobat like a modeltech magic extra or better yet one of the Vector flight extra's and use it for having fun with while building your confidence and when your Katana is finally done you will be much more prepared for it. If you have been reading the Katana thread then you know I am in the middle of one of those as well and I put it on hold until after the holidays due to the engine issue. In the meantime I am flying a large .40 size Extra with a Saito .72 on it. That little plane flies like a bigger one and does all the Imac moves suprisingly well. The best thing about it is when it reaches it's expiration date, the airframe was only $120.00 so I am not out all that much. I am also learning the IMAC intermediate and advanced sequences to increase my skills. It is amazing how satisfying it is to execute 4 or 5 manuevers in sequence and have them look exactly the way they are supposed to. I always thought it would be a piece of cake until I tried it.