Yup, I definitely need help.
08-02-2010 | 05:23 AM
#1
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From: Roy, UT
Yup, I definitely need help.
So I have a few questions:
What size prop is best for an OS .20? I'm currently running a 9x4.
How much room should be necessary to take this plane off (PT-20 with OS .20) from asphalt?
Reason I ask. My plane has achieved a grand total height of about 14 inches... yup. 3 flights, 14 inches unless we count the 3 feet swan dive off the embankment into the canal 2 inches the first time, 0 the second, and 12 followed by an immediate left wing tip stall into some tall grass. What's going on here? I'm giving the plane at least 50 yards of runway and it just doesn't seem to want to fly. The CG is good so I'm a bit lost. Is the engine underpowered? It is older than me after all... (I am 24).
Anyway, before you say it: No, I do not have an instructor, but I sure would love to have one! There is 1 reasonably priced RC field by me... except they have no contact info on their gates to the field nor on their horribly designed website. Every time I have gone by (8 times or so in the past week) the gate has been locked. Part of me wonders if they actually have any members! I need to go by the LHS to pick up a new nose cone (12 inch dive snapped off the end of my prop and broke a piece inside of the spinner. I don't want to take a chance that something that small could cause an out of balance issue with the engine) and while there I was planning on asking them if they know how I can join and such.
Any and all tips/advice are welcome!
:flame suit on:<br type="_moz" />
What size prop is best for an OS .20? I'm currently running a 9x4.
How much room should be necessary to take this plane off (PT-20 with OS .20) from asphalt?
Reason I ask. My plane has achieved a grand total height of about 14 inches... yup. 3 flights, 14 inches unless we count the 3 feet swan dive off the embankment into the canal 2 inches the first time, 0 the second, and 12 followed by an immediate left wing tip stall into some tall grass. What's going on here? I'm giving the plane at least 50 yards of runway and it just doesn't seem to want to fly. The CG is good so I'm a bit lost. Is the engine underpowered? It is older than me after all... (I am 24).
Anyway, before you say it: No, I do not have an instructor, but I sure would love to have one! There is 1 reasonably priced RC field by me... except they have no contact info on their gates to the field nor on their horribly designed website. Every time I have gone by (8 times or so in the past week) the gate has been locked. Part of me wonders if they actually have any members! I need to go by the LHS to pick up a new nose cone (12 inch dive snapped off the end of my prop and broke a piece inside of the spinner. I don't want to take a chance that something that small could cause an out of balance issue with the engine) and while there I was planning on asking them if they know how I can join and such.
Any and all tips/advice are welcome!
:flame suit on:<br type="_moz" />
08-02-2010 | 05:42 AM
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From: Locust Grove, OK
RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
There are some things to check other then CG although checking it again may not be a bad idea.
Control throws...Make sure they are all moving the right direction. Make sure they are not moving to much.( set as per instruction manual)
Engine thrust angle if your engine is pointing down toward the ground to much she no gonna fly so good.
Your plane while sitting on a level surface should be holding a near level attitude, or even SLIGHTLY nose up.
Make sure all your wheels are turning freely dragging wheels cause all kinds of issues.
The overall weight of the plane, if it weighs in much more then the instructions say it will, you have issues.
A plane that is not overpowered has to have SPEED on the ground before it flies. Always always always get a good roll before u pull up.
Finally....wait until someone that has been flying a bit can look it over..it will save you money..sometimes a lot of it..
Let the Hobby Shop guys check it out since you are going anyway. They may also have info you need on contacts.
There are others here that know a lot more about that engine and prop combo then I do...I hope they can answer you better.
Control throws...Make sure they are all moving the right direction. Make sure they are not moving to much.( set as per instruction manual)
Engine thrust angle if your engine is pointing down toward the ground to much she no gonna fly so good.
Your plane while sitting on a level surface should be holding a near level attitude, or even SLIGHTLY nose up.
Make sure all your wheels are turning freely dragging wheels cause all kinds of issues.
The overall weight of the plane, if it weighs in much more then the instructions say it will, you have issues.
A plane that is not overpowered has to have SPEED on the ground before it flies. Always always always get a good roll before u pull up.
Finally....wait until someone that has been flying a bit can look it over..it will save you money..sometimes a lot of it..
Let the Hobby Shop guys check it out since you are going anyway. They may also have info you need on contacts.
There are others here that know a lot more about that engine and prop combo then I do...I hope they can answer you better.
08-02-2010 | 07:57 AM
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From: Dubbo, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA
RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
G'day
I used to have an OS 19 (a long time ago) and I had a 9 x 6 on it. That would give you a bit more thrust.
I think the 20 should fly the plane but it would not be a powerhouse and flying a model which is at the low end of the recommended engine size does require some finesse. You have to coax it into the air and not try to haul it up. It should fly its self off when it is ready but you will probably had to give it just a tiny bit of up elevator to get it to rotate and head up.
Now having said all this - I strongly suggest you find an instructor. If you do not. It s about 98.3% certain that your first flight will be (1) short, (2) dramatic and (3) result in the demise of the plane (and possibly the engine if you are near tarmac). It is really worth while getting someone to help you. Not only with the flying but also to check out the plane to make sure everything is OK. It is very easy to get something wrong when you are starting out.
I have had two planes the just would not fly. Both were underpowered. One was an oldtimer Simplex and all it wanted to do was stay on the ground. I think it was afraid of heights. The other was (actually still is) a very old Sig Kadet Senior into which I put a very old Saito 45. The little Saito ran perfectly but just could haul the Kadet into the air. A similar aged OS 40 four stroke could get it into the air. Just. It would then climb like a WWII bomber with a full bomb and fuel load. Very gradually.
Have fun with your model. We need more blokes your age in the hobby. It is possible to teach your self to fly but it will cost you several models. Better to find the bods at that club and get them to help you. I am sure they will.
Cheers
Mike in Oz
I used to have an OS 19 (a long time ago) and I had a 9 x 6 on it. That would give you a bit more thrust.
I think the 20 should fly the plane but it would not be a powerhouse and flying a model which is at the low end of the recommended engine size does require some finesse. You have to coax it into the air and not try to haul it up. It should fly its self off when it is ready but you will probably had to give it just a tiny bit of up elevator to get it to rotate and head up.
Now having said all this - I strongly suggest you find an instructor. If you do not. It s about 98.3% certain that your first flight will be (1) short, (2) dramatic and (3) result in the demise of the plane (and possibly the engine if you are near tarmac). It is really worth while getting someone to help you. Not only with the flying but also to check out the plane to make sure everything is OK. It is very easy to get something wrong when you are starting out.
I have had two planes the just would not fly. Both were underpowered. One was an oldtimer Simplex and all it wanted to do was stay on the ground. I think it was afraid of heights. The other was (actually still is) a very old Sig Kadet Senior into which I put a very old Saito 45. The little Saito ran perfectly but just could haul the Kadet into the air. A similar aged OS 40 four stroke could get it into the air. Just. It would then climb like a WWII bomber with a full bomb and fuel load. Very gradually.
Have fun with your model. We need more blokes your age in the hobby. It is possible to teach your self to fly but it will cost you several models. Better to find the bods at that club and get them to help you. I am sure they will.
Cheers
Mike in Oz
08-02-2010 | 08:17 AM
#4
RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
Hi!
9x4 or 9x5 APC!
A 9x6 is a little too much prop for a n OS .20 FP (or MAX .20).
From asphalt it will take just a around 10meters until it takes off. But for heavens sake ...Take help from the club before you try to fly that plane yourself.
As for setting up the plane! Correct C of G is important as is axial trim and correct aileron and elevator throws.Side rudder isn't that critical.
Aileron: 1cm up and down measured at the back of the strip aileron!
Elevator: same as above.
These are just initial setting and they have to be adjusted after the first flight.
Some advise! Get rid of that plastic spinner! An aluminum spinner nut is much better.
9x4 or 9x5 APC!
A 9x6 is a little too much prop for a n OS .20 FP (or MAX .20).
From asphalt it will take just a around 10meters until it takes off. But for heavens sake ...Take help from the club before you try to fly that plane yourself.
As for setting up the plane! Correct C of G is important as is axial trim and correct aileron and elevator throws.Side rudder isn't that critical.
Aileron: 1cm up and down measured at the back of the strip aileron!
Elevator: same as above.
These are just initial setting and they have to be adjusted after the first flight.
Some advise! Get rid of that plastic spinner! An aluminum spinner nut is much better.
08-02-2010 | 08:42 AM
#5
RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
My first powered plane was a Midwest Aerostar 20. with a .20. It flew, but they called it the weedeater. I could barely get it into the air, and if the wind was right I had to fly between two trees and make a turn behind them to miss a third. While the urge to start with a small engine might seem good, slower and easier, the opposite is true. It is much easier to learn on an A/C that has enough power. While your plane will fly with a .20 it will take a little more skill than you have yet. I had the benefit of flying gliders for years before my first powered plane and It was still challenging to take-off and fly. I would recommend a 9-5 or 9-6 prop on a .25 sized engine and a flight instructor. If you don't want to replace the engine then I would try a 9-5 prop and instructor. Most of all I would try an instructor.
08-02-2010 | 09:04 AM
#6
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RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
Here is the contact info for 4 clubs within 25 miles of your location.
<table border="0" align="center" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" style="WIDTH: 700px; COLOR: #333333; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_dgClubs"><tr style="COLOR: #333333; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f7f6f3"><td>FALCON RC CLUB, HILL AFB, UTA
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: blue" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_dgClubs_ctl02_lblDis tance">0.00 miles</span> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">MICHAEL HIBBETTS
<script type="text/javascript"></script></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">5304 S 3400 W
ROY UT 84067-9281
Phone: 801.776.2148
Visit Website
</td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td></tr><tr style="COLOR: #284775; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><td>WASATCH AERO MODELERS
Flying Site Details
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: blue" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_dgClubs_ctl03_lblDis tance">3.41 miles</span> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">LEONARD PITKIN
<script type="text/javascript"></script></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">958 N 300 W
SUNSET UT 84015
Phone: 801-773-3093
Visit Website
</td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td></tr><tr style="COLOR: #333333; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f7f6f3"><td>NORTHERN UT RC AIRCRAFT CLUB
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: blue" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_dgClubs_ctl04_lblDis tance">5.35 miles</span> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">ROYCE JORGENSEN
<script type="text/javascript"></script></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">5066 CHEYENNE CIR
OGDEN UT 84403-4416
Phone: 801/479-0845
Visit Website
</td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td></tr><tr style="COLOR: #284775; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><td>SOUTH DAVIS MODELERS
<span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; COLOR: blue" id="ctl00_ContentPlaceHolder1_dgClubs_ctl05_lblDis tance">23.60 miles</span> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"> </td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">NEIL CROFT
<script type="text/javascript"></script></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap">852 W 2150 S
WOODS CROSS UT 84087
Phone: 801-397-0865
Visit Website
</td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td><td style="WHITE-SPACE: nowrap"></td></tr></table></p>
08-02-2010 | 10:46 AM
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From: Fort Collins, Colorado
RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
Motospiel, I am a member of Falcon RC and live in West Haven, so we are relatively close. I would be glad to help in anyway I can. Feel free to PM me and we can go from there. Falcon RC's website is in the process of being re-done so unfortunately not a lot of info there at the moment. I'll be out of town this weekend, (leaving thursday) but can get you hooked up with one of our experienced members. Of course you're on the right track already by asking your question here. Great bunch of folks who as you see are always willing to share their vast experience and knowledge.
Shaggy48
Shaggy48
08-02-2010 | 03:33 PM
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From: Roy, UT
RE: Yup, I definitely need help.
Hmm... I think I'll try the 9x5 prop then. I just wasn't sure if I could go any bigger on that small of an engine. Every chart I ever seen said the 9x4 was max, but, maybe thats just a guideline. Heck, I dunno.
Also, I do have an aluminum spinner nut like that on the engine. I just think the plane looks goofy without the spinner on it.
The control surfaces may possibly move more than recommended, I haven't checked. I just pulled the plane out of the basement and went over everything to make sure they were all straight and moved correctly. I sure had to tweak a lot of things on it. Evidently you don't build everything very well when you were 17. hahaha.
I don't really like flying without an instructor. My friend insists I learn this way because "The old guys had to learn someway." To which I tell him, "You know I'm just going to laugh when you finish your $700+ warbird and turn it into scrap wood on take off, right?" Yup, thats right. He is so stubborn he won't even take my advice to at least start with a trainer. He instead has to scratch build himself a Warbird. Ohhhhhhhh boy.
Shaggy: Oh awesome. I know about you guys... but don't I need a military ID to get on base? I don't even know how to get one (or if I can get one). Heck, they didn't even give me one when I was a cadet. LoL. Anyway, what are your dues and initiation fee? It isn't crazy like the other local club that is 250+ is it? I'm a college student, I can't afford that just yet! (I can pay you in Ramen noodles!)
<br type="_moz" />
Also, I do have an aluminum spinner nut like that on the engine. I just think the plane looks goofy without the spinner on it.
The control surfaces may possibly move more than recommended, I haven't checked. I just pulled the plane out of the basement and went over everything to make sure they were all straight and moved correctly. I sure had to tweak a lot of things on it. Evidently you don't build everything very well when you were 17. hahaha.
I don't really like flying without an instructor. My friend insists I learn this way because "The old guys had to learn someway." To which I tell him, "You know I'm just going to laugh when you finish your $700+ warbird and turn it into scrap wood on take off, right?" Yup, thats right. He is so stubborn he won't even take my advice to at least start with a trainer. He instead has to scratch build himself a Warbird. Ohhhhhhhh boy.
Shaggy: Oh awesome. I know about you guys... but don't I need a military ID to get on base? I don't even know how to get one (or if I can get one). Heck, they didn't even give me one when I was a cadet. LoL. Anyway, what are your dues and initiation fee? It isn't crazy like the other local club that is 250+ is it? I'm a college student, I can't afford that just yet! (I can pay you in Ramen noodles!)
<br type="_moz" />
