but what is a good plane for a second.
i have read about the Something Extra, but what else is good

i want something fairly aerobatic that i can start slow and build up to something really quick and responsive. i also think i want an ARF cuz, i don't think i will have time to build a kit. one more thing something that will fly really well with a TT pro46

Goldberg Tiger 2
Goldberg Extreme 330
GP Ultra Sport
GP Dazzler
GP Super Sportster
Phoenix Funstar 3D
Sig Something Extra
GP Super Decathlon(i already have it built)

Get the Tiger 2...

Don't move too fast!!

Somethin' Extra would be a perfect step up from the Tiger 2....

what is wrong with the other planes?

actually I think which ever plane you prefer would be ok, I myself went from a homemade airmadilla which is kida like a spad, which I had just got to the point that I could land it, to a hobbico extra 300 with an os91 four stroke. It was a handful @ first but looking back I don't think I would have changed a thing, I learned to do all kinds of aerobatics with my second plane. Get what you want.

Gil

i like the way they all look but i am unsure if one will be too much. i am half tempted to bring out my Super Decathlon and see if i can take it off and land it.

Any of those are good i think.
All can do basic aerobatics but i would prefer the 3D ones as they are quit easy to fly and doing 3D with them is easier.Flying them is fun.
Anyway if u decide to get any one of these...do not try to fly alone on the maiden flight.
have someone with more experince by you and only do eveything by yourself once you are completely familiar with the plane.

Good advise. The SE will make a good 2nd plane for some people, but not others. It's not a forgiving plane. If you're really quick, you might do OK with it. Can you wring out your trainer and find the limits of what it can do? When you do this, is it boring? Of yes to both, the SE might be OK.

I don't know, but I've heard that the GP decathlon is about impossible for a beginner. If you want frustration, let that be your 2nd plane! Search this board and you'll find the notes from the victims.

Here's one:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...t=gp+decathlon]

Yes everybody is different and learn at different rates but by long observation over a whole bunch of years generally most people (this includes 'all' age groups) who successfully reach their goals of true flight skills, do so faster by using an aircraft after the trainer that flys on the wing and not an overpowered 3D type.

The Sig 4-40, 4-60 and the Goldberg/Lanier Tiger 11 are ideal aircraft that fit this need among others.

The more rungs you skip in the ladder of skills, The more holes there will be in your knowledge/skill. Nobody or age group can escape this fact, Irreguardless of their individual talents.

John

not quite yet, almost, by the end of august i probably will have

on the maiden flight of whatever i get, i am 99.9% sure it will be with someone more experienced than me.


i am still open to suggestions

is that the 4 star? is it available as an ARF?

Decathalon, already built, can be set up like a "hot" trainer, and later can be set up for full aerobatics.

Jetts

brschmid,

RE-READ JOHN BUCKNER'S POST! (Particularly the last paragraph.)

Where's the rush? There are no prizes for flying aerobatics sooner rather than later. You have your entire life to do this; enjoy the learning.

I have seen RC pilots that had amazing thumbs when they started and advanced by leaps and bounds, even flying 3D within their first year.

They eventually tried going into aerobatic competition only to find that their piloting skills actually stunk. They'd never learned the basics of flight. It was extremely difficult for them to back up.

Small steps.

(By the way, my vote goes to the Super Sportster, for what it's worth.)
Dennis-

Another one to look at is the Midwest Aerobat. I'm currently working on a review of the Aerobat for RCU Magazine. My brother and I built it yesterday in less than 6 hours! Still not flown (Slated for tomorrow night), but all indications look like it will be a great flier, and an ideal second plane.

do you have a link to the Aerobat??

ok, so advance slowly, where does my SD come in on this ladder?

super sportster, Tiger 2, SE, Ultra sport. which one is the most recommended

http://www.falcon-trading.com/product.cfm?prodid=6

Can't find it on midwest's site.

Hmmm... Looks a lot like a primary trainer. It's very configurable, though! You can go trike or tail-dragger and setup flaps.

Not a primary trainer, it has a semi-symetrical wing.

As far as the super sportster, Tiger 2, SE, Ultra sport go, the only one I would recommend (without seeing your skills) would be the Tiger, and then ONLY if you're capable.

Yea, it's not a primary trainer - it just LOOKS a lot like one.

Tiger2

The Aerobat is nothing more than an ARF version of an old Midwest Aerostar trainer kit that has had a flat symetrical wing of the same wing area added with the addition of of dural main gear replaceing the wire gear. I have not flown that version but have bashed a number of them for others and myself in virtually the same way. The Aerostar as a primary trainer along with the Kaydet Senior are my all time favorite trainers and both can be extremly versatile for 'fun things' after the initial training period The Aerobat configured Aerostar is an effective secondary airplane, nimble without a lot of 'evils'. But I feel the big four already mentioned by the guys, Four Star, Tiger 11, Ultra Sport, and SE are among the best of secondary trainers.

BR, As to your question about where your Decathalon comes into the picture. Only you can answer that. Let me give you a little insight on an airplane of that type. While not having flown that particular ship it apparently does not have a great reputation and probably the reason for that has nothing to do with the that airplanes flyability but more to do with the pilots having not developed takeoff rudder skills. Most scale arf's tend to be a bit heavy and must be flown 'on the wing'. What that means is: you will not be ready for it untill you can consistently make takeoffs preferably with a tail dragger in a straight manner down the runway and after intial takeoff with out jumping off the ground at a steep angle. This is another way of saying you must be able to correct for 'P' factor during and after takeoff with
rudder and not aileron which always make things worse.

There is an interesting commercial tape circulating that is nothing but crashes at various events. It is very interesting to note that probably ninety percent of these crashes tend to be heavy beautiful scale types that almost invarably are pulled off the ground after a 'panic takeoff' and go a short distance before rolling over in a stall spin entry to arrive back at the runway in a vertical attitude. So my best thoughts are to wait untill you can fly consistently with one of the big four secondary airplanes and use that rudder smoothly. That Decathalon is no doubt a fine flyer, when flown as intended. By the way it will never perform beautiful figures in the sky as a pattern plane will or will it ever perform gut wrenching 3D tyjpe of flight but will fly very well in a scale like manner with charms of its own.

I wish you the best of luck and appreciate the fact that you seem to be responding to some excellent advice from a lot of good people here on the forum. This is a lifetime passion indeed.

John

I don't often disagree with you John, but IMHO The SE and Ultra Sport should not be used as a second plane except in extraordinary circumstances.

These are both very unforgiving, advanced aircraft.

Yup Mike you are probably right. A bit of a lapse but the two that I do reccomend to my folks everytime are the Four star or any of the tigers. Actually I love the Tigers so much I once built one at eighty inchs, 12.5 lbs. and a 1.08. Still love that ship.

John

here is a link to black horse models the speed air 40 is my second plane and it flys great slows like a trianer for landings but flys fast with the .46 for some fun arobatics check out there other planes as well.

looks to be a couple others that would make good second planes. have a great day all
http://www.brucknerhobbies.com/black_horse_models.htm
bassman

thank you all for your advice. i was considering converting my duraplane into a controlable taildragger(unlike the sturdy birdy) so i could learn proper r/c taildragger technique(i am good at full scale taildragger(Super Decathlon )

maybe i will try my SD as my 3rd plane, it was my first build, but it is soo beautiful and i love SD's that i will hold back and wait.

the second plane i am looking for is for next year, so i am just getting ideas now.

I will look at the 4 and try to make a decision. i will still accept suggestions and real life experience with the planes

A wise decision

John

doesn't the FOUR STAR come in a 40 size ARF, i don't have room for a 60 sized at the moment