We Have a rule at our flying field. If you fly out of pattern then you need to either pay for or repair the plane you take out. Bring it up at a club meeting and find out what the rule is if someone causes a mid air. I bet you will find it is in the by-laws.

Lablover:
Here is my 2 cents worth. I see you put this in the beginner section as per a previous post. That said (this is just my opinion).

1. Bottom line is the guy was flying the wrong way.
2. I think the guy knew you were new to the hobby and took advantage of the situation, in other words he knew he was at fault and since you are new he decided not to pony up for your loss.
3. You should have got him to commit to replacing your airplane the day of the incident. It might be sour grapes now.

Now I want to say this. At our club we have a right of way rule and there is to be no 3D in the pattern area. (loops and rolls ok) no hovers etc. I was following a 30% extra and the dude pulls up and starts a hover right at mid field. I pulled up and just barely missed him. I flew the pattern and landed.

I waited until he was through with his exhibition. After he landed, I went over and informed him that if we would have had a midair that he would have been buying me a new plane. He knew the rules of the field and blatantly ignored them.

I feel like the dude that was flying against the pattern and doing maneuvers that seem to be consitant with an advanced pilot, he obviously knew better as well. The guy OWES you an airplane. I would ask him to replace your loss and if that fails ask the club officers and especially the safety officer for a ruling.

He was wrong.

Glenn

A lot of folks seem to be jumping to the officers for help but only a few have said to talk to the guy involved. If it were me I would brouche the subject with the other party before going to any club officer. Iwould not take it to another third party(ie club officer before that as it will for sure alienate the other member.). It just seems 2 grown adults can come to an agreement without having to drag the club officers into it.
Chris

Something nobody has brought up yet. Did everyone that was flying have a spotter? my club requires one if more than one pilot is in the air at a time. If no spotter were used, you take your chances.
Are you going to get paid becauce of a lost model, most likely not.
Can you sue him in a court of law, sure. bet you will have the whole sky to yourself after that and not to many friends.
These things happen, thats all there is to it.
Time to move on and take this as a lesson learned. When this guy is flying, Land or fly high.
Have the club officers make sure to tell everyone in whatever form they choose to observe the flight pattern when more than one aircraft is in the air.

The best _102.

I agree that lablover should have talked with the guy. However the guy was flying maneuvers against the pattern. He obviously knew better and caused a susequent midair. It is painfully obvious to me that the guy know's he owes lablover a new plane.

As I suggested, I would try to talk to the guy again, and come to an agreement that is acceptable to both parties. If that is not acceptable then ask the club officers and for sure the safety officer. If the guy in question happens to be an officer of the club then you go to the officer who is above him.

We as modelers know when we do something wrong or stupid and most of us try to do the right thing. I know that times are hard and maybe the guy does not have the money to buy lablover a new plane.

That is why I suggested an agrrement that both parties can live with.

If this had been my airplane, for sure before I left the field we both would have had an understanding.

Flying against the pattern is just stupid when there are more than 2 airplanes airborne.

As I stated earlier lablover should get a new plane from this guy.

Glenn</p>

This sounds like a club issue. It would appear that your club is little lax with the rules and therefore people don't apply them.

We have a few folk at our club who fly their own pattern after take off. In fact we have one jerk who takes off from the taxi way, right between flyers if its cross wind. He thinks he's competant.

Art our club We never leave our aircraft in ront of the fence. we haul them back to the pit area behind the parc ferme. This way the planes are far away from the runway.

Also, it is absolutely forbidden to fly over the runway unless you call Landing, Low pass or high speed pass. If you don't, youget you plane halled form the sky by an instructor and they pack your bags for you for the day. Repeated break the rules and the committee boots you out. Safety first.

In your case, the flyer who caused the collision was flying out of pattern i.e. breaking the rules, he should compensate you. DOn;t hold your breath however. The world is filled with juvenile jerks who cannot take responsibility for their actions.

Take it up with your club committee. You may get luck y and they replace your plane for you and bump up his fees to recover the loss.

This is a case of negligence and not an accident.

I once saw my buddy flying his 10,000+ BVM King Cat, in the normal pattern get into a midair with another friend basically hovering a foamy over the runway....Because of my buddies skill, he landed with "minor" repairs which included needing a new fuselage, right boon and canopy, and it totally stripped one of his elevator servos. The foamy was confetty! It was totally the foamy's fault and it was a bad day! When i fly my jets at the local field, all of the other guys usually land their IMAC's and foamies, out of their own will as to not impeed on the jets. Depth perception plays a huge role, even if you have excellent depth perception, the size and speed difference is huge, it is just too hard to gauge distances. Now, keep in mind, this all happened even though the jet had a spotter.

There was no settlement between the two guys...which is horrible in my opinion. If you are hovering anything directly over the runway outer line, you should be at fault, because hovering isnt defined as forward flight, so you are not "flying the pattern". Just my .02

I'm just going to accept what happened and move on. If he decides to help me out, great..if not, well then SH&^ happens right. I don't want this to put a sour taste in my mouth towards the hobby. I have to say I was very very angry that day and I'm known to be a hot head..So the fact that I didn't go OFF is a good thing. He did say some things to me that to this day can't remember what he was saying, I had blinders on and was pretty hot, I tuned him out so to say.

I will see him in a few days and we will see what transpires. Last night I took out all the servos and stuff and bagged her up. The motor still lays on a rag with all the dirt cleaned off. I tested the servos and already put them in another plane, so now I look forward to getting that one up.

I learned some things this weekend! When certain folks go up...I'm coming down, that simple. It's not worth loosing a plane to prove you can fly with the big boys. Today I'm going to run out and buy myself a few things to get my other planes up and running. The other good thing is now all my planes have engines...I had one waiting for a new one but..hey, now I got a spare

Guys at my club that I know are reading this, you know I'm a good guy and what I would have done no questions. Today is a new day...A darn windy day so I get parts and build more planes................time to move on!

Thanks for all the advise here, it's helped me tons

Flying with a student the other night, two guys kept changing the pattern... I finally had to request that they fly more orderly... hard to teach someone when others are playing chase. Fortunately, they cooperated and it gave me a chance to give a good lesson to the student. Generally, people cooperate when you are asking for something that is reasonable.

Yesterday, I waited for almost an hour for a flying lull to fly my heli.... got out there and was flying.... you would think that they would give me a couple of minutes, no... they took off under me and then screamed at me for flying more than 25 feet away of them. Show a bit of consideration and share the air space. Announce your intentions. Electric helis do not fly for very long because of the batteries. Give us a break too!

Personally, I don't like the fly at your risk concept... so I land when certain individuals are flying. I think the club should enforce some liability when the accident is witnessed by several people. When two of us are flying close maneuvers, we often state "everyone pays for their own, or don't fly". $2,500 aircraft are not easy to replace.

Every field has some flyers which are unsafe or wild. When one of these guys at my field goes up in the air, I immediately land my plane. I won't subject my plane to someone elses erratic flying style.

Considering the circumstances you claim, I would sue the guy who broke the pattern and caused the midair. You suffered damages by his negligence and / or his inability to control his plane. When you bring that to court, you will win. Nothing, including this hobby, is lawsuit-free. The club can do nothing for you ... but the courts can!! Don't be afraid to sue. You have a legal right, and no one can stop or condemn you for that.

Yes, it was an accident. But it sounds as if the other guy was at fault for the accident ... it's called NEGLIGENCE.

To accept this accident (or any mid-air) as part of the hobby, is like accepting car crashes just because we drive on the roads! Would you not sue someone for crashing into your car?

Also ... be courteous to others. If a guy wants to fly a heli for a little while, and your field does not have a separate location for helis, he should be able to fly his heli. What's the harm to let him have the full airspace for a few minutes?

Of all the fields I fly at, helicopters have their own space ... away from the planes. That is a good thing. Helicopters get in the way of planes, and tend to constantly fly over (buzz) the runway, which puts them in the way of the landing/takeoff pattern. It is not right when a heli guy uses the runway when there is a special area off to the side of the runway for helis.

When a guy flys his 3D plane or helicopter, I don't fly ... I wait. Same thing when jets fly ... they should have the airspace to themselves BECAUSE THEY NEED IT ... Actually, THEY NEED ALL OF IT. Jets fly too fast to be flying with slower planes, helis or 3D planes ... slow planes just get in the way of jets. Just land your plane and watch the jet fly ... it's a good show!

The probabilty of a mid air are slim. Its part of all avaiation sectors, even when miminization is incorporated. If the rolls were reversed and you had landed, would you have paid for his plane? Having had two mid airs, I can say you never see it coming. It is "a possibility" in the hobby, just as a head on collision is a possibility on our highways. If you stay in the hobby, it MAY happen again, and be"your fault". Get over it and move on.

I think this about sums it up. Doubt you'll get him to replace your loss. Best to learn (don't fly when he flies) and move on. We have a few pilots that just don't get it and everyone else lands when they come out to the flight line.

If I was at fault, I WOULD pay for the other guys' plane ... no questions asked, and immediately. If someone says they never saw it coming, then they were not paying attention.

And just as in a head on collision with cars ... sue!! Make the guy who was at fault, pay for the damages. Then, LET HIM GET OVER IT.

I've never heard of flying models in one pattern only, don't think theres a club in the UK that does that, I would definatly never join one. There is a general pattern based on wind direction but that makes sence. The only difference is if you are doing something unusual you call it, "landing", "taking off", "Low pass left to right", "Low pass right to left", "Dead stick" "loop up the middle" and my usual favourite "I'm messing about low level call if you want me out of the way" .

I've always used the rule that mid-airs are always bad luck, don't fly what you can't afford to crash. I'm sure there are occasions when people are in the wrong but they are usually incidents where some arrangment should be made (help repairing etc..) like a mid-air on takeoff or on a landing where some respect should have been paid to the "called manouver".

As people have said, don't fly with the wrong people or the wrong models. If a large or a fast model takes off just give them that slot and wait till after, the same for heli's and aero's. Its supprising how little curtesy some modellers have, at the end of the day we're all in it for the fun.

Ok, maybe its just me, but I would never sue another club member over an airplane. Its just not worth it, and I don't want to sue anyone. I have to agree with those that say mid-airs are part of the risk associated with the hobby. I don't think anyone wants a mid-air, including the other guy, regardless of who came out better in the aftermath. If the other guy was at fault, (as in, he landed on my plane in the pitts), I may tell him he owes me, but thats about it.

Just as with many things it takes "two to tango". Training yourself to watch the area around your plane you can determine if someone is getting close. You then have a split second to make a manuever to avoid the collision. YOU are responsible for YOUR plane. As the pilot YOU can prevent ANY midair once you know how.

Making each other pay for each others plane is a very slippery slope. EACH person is 50% WRONG in every midair. IF EITHER pilot was aware and paying attention to the other traffic in the immediate area in front of their airplane they could have made a small course correction to avoid it. IF you fly ahead of your airplane instead of reponding to what is or is not doing you will not have a midair period.

When you are flying you must be AWARE of what is in your flight path or may cross it. Pay attention listen for engine noise the same volume as yours if you are flying into an area. Use your vision and don't "Tunnel vision" on your airplane. Become aware of the other traffic you can get an idea where other aircraft are at by using your vision and your ears. You will generally have at least one second to respond if another airplane comes into your field of view. You have to react and not freeze or panic. Hovering aircraft make a distinctive noise whether it is electric or powered. Learn that noise.

The jet versus foamie should have never happened the jet pilot should have made a "HIGH PASS" first to ensure the runway was open for a low pass. A foamie over the runway hovering was still making noise. If he had been aware of his surroundings and he could have made a correction if he was flying far enough ahead of his airplane.

The OP is doing the right thing by letting it go. In time he will learn who he can fly with and who to watch out for.

Hi awood12345,
We have the same rules for flying here. That is, the pattern is based on wind direction. (just like full size airfields)
Every club or field that I have ever flown at has this rule. Yes, common sense.

I've seen guys take-off or land downwind (either by mistake, or because they haven't learned to fly right-turn patterns). I'm sure this happens everywhere. Some of the time the pilot doesn't call it out, and luckily nothing happens. Even more fortunately, this rarely happens and no one gets too excited about it ... mistakes happen. Just as long as the mistake can be corrected with calm communication and better flying skills. Most of all, just as long as the mistake doesn't lead to an accident.

You can try and sue him. He'll pull his homeowner's policy out and then his insurance company will probably call your homeowner's insurance holder and they'll pay anything OVER your deductable if you can prove the value of the model: not replacement probably but depreciated value instead. This will cost you $1,500 in legal counsel, and you'll get a $50 check.

If he was at fault he should cowboy up. If he doesn't he's a worm but you're still out the $. If he has a history of being unsafe or a jerk you can probably get him voted out of the club. In truth, there's not much you can do legally.

I've had one mid-air. I was flying straight and level about 75 feet over a model on a perpendicular heading that looped up into me and sheared my wing off. Completely freak - no fault assigned and I licked my wounds and bought myself another. Other plane landed undamaged!. I shipped the engine to OS U.S. (half as a joke) and they were impressed with the damage after it had lawn-darted into a big rock at a gozillion mph, and replaced the bag of pieces of the OS 70II Surpass at wholesale cost ($150). Hit so hard the piston shattered!

When you sue in court and win, you also get your attorney fees paid by the losing party. So, now ask the guy who was at fault, "Do you want to pay me for the cost of the plane, or do you want to pay my attorney too?"

What is "flying the pattern"?

If it is what it sounds like, (racetrack path around the field), I can't conceive of anything more boring.

I guess you didn't see where I said I would have covered his loss if I had been at fault. Guess you just didn't read everything...Ya must of missed it hmmm

When it does happen again and it IS my fault..I WILL cover the losses, that would make me feel better with myself..But, I will GET OVER IT.

No one is suing anyone... That's a little much in so many ways

Everyone has a set of moral standards...Some folks here have the same as others. I'd be interested if I crashed into somebody that had a 3K pattern plane with a 300 dollar trainer...Would the other person just get over it...I DOUBT IT!!

If it had just happened and no one was breaking rules, fine..but the person was in the wrong that simple. Let's say I'm driving down the road and decide to cross the median and smash into your new BMW..would you just get over it? Same theory but exaggerated a bit.

What are the rules put into place for if they mean nothing??? We have a rule to fly the way everyone else does when more than one plane is in the sky...Why have the rule if it means nothing to break them.

As far as not talking to a club officer...What if it was a club officer that hit me!! not saying it was but it might have been. What if I had a bad attitude and the next time this fella goes up with his 3K bird I take my hunk of junk and plow into him...Oppps..."SORRY it was an accident " wonder how that would go over?

Lot of what if's. I said the guy was a good guy to me since day one, helped me out at times etc. I consider him a friend. I gotta tell you, If I bashed into his plane, he would of got more than just a sorry from me.......NO MATTER WHAT THE COST!

And people are wondering why I'm getting bent out of shape!

Yes, with aerobatics on the downwind leg. Also, would be much more fun just having everyone fly all different ways without a care in the world.....Hey wait, don't real planes fly a pattern for a reason??????????

Certainly it's not as interesting as a mid-air.

No one says you have to spend the whole flight doing laps. Just have the sense and courtesy to let the other pilots know of your intentions; especially if you are going to do a high-alpha in the middle of the runway.

It's a real crowd pleaser when two 100" P-51 jockeys do opposing high speed low passes. Even if they don't meet the fireworks afterwards are lively. Even better is when one meets a 30% Extra "speed-bump" doing an uncalled torque roll.

Communicate. With or without a spotter.

Talk to the club safety officer. The board are generally clueless (I should know, I'm currently in my third term).

Guys are spending big money on giant models, then have to make ridiculous rules like this.

I flew for nearly 20 years as one of the most active flyers at a 100 man club field and never saw a mid air. We typically never had more than 3 planes in the air...usually just 1 or 2.

If 2 or 3 guys can't figure out how not to collide, something is fundamentally wrong.

In all the years I flew at this field, .40 sized models made up about 40%, .60 sized models another 40%, and most of the rest were smaller. It was a pretty rare sight to see some .90-1.20 sized monstrosity out there. Giant scale gasser planes were so rare that we gave them the sky to themselves.

My advice is to find a place to fly that has rules and an environment that suit you.