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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
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If your looking for a Kaos 60 plane, here is another plane real close to it ... Deception 60... It is a easy build..
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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
I always enjoyed fly pattern planes. I found them to be easy to fly because they are so true. The late models are easy to land because they will slow down.
The new ones don't use retracts, the older ones were always a pita because the gears would wobble around. If got back in I think I would go electric this time. No YS to keep tuned or pipes, and no worry about db's Dennis |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot ORIGINAL: GerKonig This is a good second plane.... Easy to see. With over 40 years in the hobby it is NOT my second plane:-) But with a 1.6 electric, it is a warranty of insane fun.... Gerry Other than being larger it won't fly much different than his Falcon 56 which is his first plane. His first plane was a good second plane, so he wants a third plane for his second plane. LOL He he, I beg to differ on saying that the falcon 56 flies like a stick (doubt it much).... But, hey, if he has help, and knows how to follow directions from his instructor, a 30 size gasser extra 300 would make a good second plane. But the truth is that the second plane takes a lot of beating (more than the first, more than the third). At least that is the experience I saw of people around me... Also this has to be taken into account: every pilot is different. Some of us are slower (always were slower) than others. Gerry |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
Here's a great deal. Dennis
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=869616 |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
He he, I beg to differ on saying that the falcon 56 flies like a stick (doubt it much).... But the truth is that the second plane takes a lot of beating (more than the first, more than the third). |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot He he, I beg to differ on saying that the falcon 56 flies like a stick (doubt it much).... But the truth is that the second plane takes a lot of beating (more than the first, more than the third). Not even close, not all shoulder wings fly the same. Better not, but cheaper yes:-) But, that is the beauty of this hobby, we all have different interests, preferences, and taste and there is so much to pick and choose from... There is a perfect model airplane: the one you like best. Gerry |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
The bigger the better for a first second or third plane..My Extreme flight Yak 54 50cc plane is the easiest plane ive ever flown..And it will do it all!..But it will set you back 2500$ or better...
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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
It's a Sr. Falcon...I originally wanted a 56, but had to 'settle' for the Sr. when I couldn't find either one 'til a guy @ another forum PMed me with a nice offer on a NIB ARF! Otherwise, you're dead right; I wanted to (and did...successfully so far) start with a relatively tame intermediate plane & now want to move to a low-wing plane that's 'more' than a typical low-wing trainer.
Which brings me back 'round to a question I hinted at in my first post, before keying on the pattern planes I've always liked. I actually OWN a [link=http:///www.seagullmodels.com/ProductDetail.asp?id=60]Seagull Miles Sparrowhawk[/link] 1.6-2.0...the 71" wingspan version. I got it for only $125 (half-off), and was thinking of going with a 30-35cc gasser. It's wing is about 945 sq.in, and it will weigh about 12 lbs when ready for flight. Will THAT be any good at all as my next plane, or are is it that much trickier/more finicky/faster-landing than the one's we've been discussing here? I mean, it LOOKS like a pretty basic low-wing plane, so why would it be that much 'worse' than the other planes? BTW, thanks to all of you for your replies. I've gotten more out of you talking amongst yourselves than I did w/the posts that directly address me! At this point, my first choice would be if a Goldberg Skylark 70 fell into my lap (hint-hint), but in the real world, I really like that Intruder 90 a lot, and the Pulses (but I was a little off-put by the talk about their delicate nature), t he four-star (though it might be that basic trainer I was trying to avoid) and the Dirty Birdy ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot ORIGINAL: Ge`rKonig This is a good second plane.... Easy to see. With over 40 years in the hobby it is NOT my second plane:-) But with a 1.6 electric, it is a warranty of insane fun.... Gerry Other than being larger it won't fly much different than his Falcon 56 which is his first plane. His first plane was a good second plane, so he wants a third plane for his second plane. LOL |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
ORIGINAL: Dirt_hawg The bigger the better for a first second or third plane..My Extreme flight Yak 54 50cc plane is the easiest plane ive ever flown..And it will do it all!..But it will set you back 2500$ or better... Plus one to that, while I only have a 56" wide Yak54 (brought as my 2nd plane I might add - again), once set up correctly, with limited throw's and the correct expo, it's an utter breeze to fly, and I can only imagine just now nice a well set up 50cc version is (there is a hint of the green eyed monster there as i type this). |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
[quote]ORIGINAL: Deandome It's a Sr. Falcon...I originally wanted a 56, but had to 'settle' for the Sr. when I couldn't find either one 'til a guy @ another forum PMed me with a nice offer on a NIB ARF! Otherwise, you're dead right; I wanted to (and did...successfully so far) start with a relatively tame intermediate plane & now want to move to a low-wing plane that's 'more' than a typical low-wing trainer. Which brings me back 'round to a question I hinted at in my first post, before keying on the pattern planes I've always liked. I actually OWN a [link=http://Seagull Miles Sparrowhawk]http://www.seagullmodels.com/ProductDetail.asp?id=60[/link] 1.6-2.0...the 71'' wingspan version. I got it for only $125 (half-off), and was thinking of going with a 30-35cc gasser. It's wing is about 945 sq.in, and it will weigh about 12 lbs when ready for flight. Will THAT be any good at all as my next plane, or are is it that much trickier/more finicky/faster-landing than the one's we've been discussing here? I mean, it LOOKS like a pretty basic low-wing plane, so why would it be that much 'worse' than the other planes? BTW, thanks to all of you for your replies. I've gotten more out of you talking amongst yourselves than I did w/the posts that directly address me! At this point, my first choice would be if a Goldberg Skylark 70 fell into my lap (hint-hint), but in the real world, I really like that Intruder 90 a lot, and the Pulses (but I was a little off-put by the talk about their delicate nature), the four-star (though it might be that basic trainer I was trying to avoid) and the Dirty Birdy I think it will depend a lot of you. Different people have different "inherent" skills. Example: at 9, my grandson, when introduced to the flight simulator went for the sukoi, and in 2 hours he was all over the place even landing in high rates... If he would have any interest in real RC models he would learn fast... Maybe it is your case too. I would read some articles about the sparrow. I think Mr. Petit wrote one. See what they comment about that particular model. Good luck! I am sure the newer (not the old) pattern models must be better as a second model than the old ones. At least the ones I saw (many, many years back) flew and landed quite too fast as a second model. But, again, the newer models must be a lot better than the ones I remember. Good luck! I like a lot bigger models, I think they fly better. My 2 cents:-) Gerry |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
ORIGINAL: Deandome Haven't checked in in a while...I've soloed my Sr. Falcon & flying almost every weekend. I actually bought a second plane already...chronologically, at least...my local HobbyTown had an 81'' Miles Sparrowhawk marked @ 1/2 off, and I'm a sucker for vintage looks (i.e., Sr. Falcon). But although the Sparrowhawk looks to me like a basic low-wing plane, I've been told that it flies more like a warbird & wouldn't make a great low-wing trainer. No biggie, I'll get to it whenever. But now I'm thinking about what WOULD make for a good trainer, but in the same vein as my Falcon is/was; something that might be a LITTLE more challenging than a basic trainer, but would make for a great plane I'll fly for a long time. Once again, I want an ARF, not a kit. I seem to be drawn to [link=http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/pattern/pattern1.htm]60s-70s vintage 'pattern' planes[/link], probby because that's what I was seeing when I was growing up, but also because I just like the look. They sure LOOK like they'd make for good low-wing trainers, but I thought I'd ask. And maybe different ones are better/worse than others. I'm talking low wing ones ...I guess I technically have a pattern plane in my Falcon (but was the Sr. 'legal'?). I like: [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?I=LXZT80&P=8]Kaos[/link] but I'd like to get something more .50-60 size (if not bigger). [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXAYNV&P=ML]Dirty Birdy[/link] Maybe my fave, but I've been told it might be a bit 'hot' for a 2nd plane (then again, I've learned about this thing called a 'throttle'....) [link=http://www.v-eastonline.com/products/WP-KWIK-FLY-MK3-.html]Kwik Fly Mk3[/link] pretty nice, a bit pricey, but not too common, which I like Any other ARF pattern-ers out there (the bigger the better)? Also, it's not pattern, but I really like Space Walkers, and [link=http://www.espritmodel.com/spacewalker-50-arf.aspx]Kyosho has one coming out[/link] out that they claim IS good as a 2nd plane (maybe a bit different than the Seagull ones). Is tricycle gear really important here? I mean, you gotta learn how to fly tail-draggers SOMETIME, don't you? OH, don't worry, the Sig four-star (60 and 120) and Super Sportster/Giant Super Sportster are also on my radar; I KNOW they'll come up as recommendations, and I do like them...but the Four-Star ARFs look to be impossible to find now. Thanks for your input! This has probably been said already, I didn't read all the postings... In my book, the Kaos will make a very good second or third plane. It isn't that fast due in part to its very thick, forgiving wing. A docile 45-60 engine is all it needs on muffler. Thirty five years ago when I was learning pattern schedules, it was a fine teacher. Another pretty good low winger I used back then was the Balsa USA Smoothie. Not quite as aerobatically capable as the KAos, it served well as a teacher; reasonably slow and docile, BUT it is a kit that is simple enough to put together. I think it was 40 sized In general, unless you go with something with a huge wing like a Sportster, the low wingers will fly a bit faster than your first trainer. It isn't unmanageable speed and it is easy to get used to the performance, but they are faster. My 1 1/2 cents |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
I just compared the Dirty Birdy 60 to the Killer Chaos 60. The wing area on the DB60 is 688 sqi, and on the KC60 its 700 sqi. The weight of the DB 60 is 7.75 lbs, the KC60 is 6.5 lbs. Does that mean the KC has better wing loading? It is also a shorter wing. <div>
</div><div>I'm about to order one, but unsure which one still. Leaning a lot towards the KC60 because it can take retracts. Landing characteristics, does the larger wing area have anything to do with landing speed? The description on the DB60 says it can slow down for landings. </div><div> </div><div>While landing speed is not an issue for me, length of runway, is. If I can get it down on the numbers, plenty of room to slow down, but if it dead sticks, I dont want it to fall out of the sky before I get over the corn. </div> |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
Looky what I found, For anyone interested in the building manual for the KC60. <div>
</div><div>http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...lerchaossm.pdf</div> |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
As far as second plane ARF's, the GP Escapades are nice. I have the smaller 40 and it is a blast. The larger 60 would be easier to manage (and see).
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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
I've owned/flown the Pulse mini, Pulse XT 40, Pulse XT 60, the Kaos 40 and a Super Sportster 160. I consider myself an intermediate pilot and found all to fly well. IMO, the Pulse XT planes make the best 2nd plane option. They land slow, they're difficult to stall, they can do all basic aerobatics well and they're much tougher than they look. I put over 500 flights on my XT 40 before passing it along to my dad and moving up to the 60. If you want a bigger model, the Pulse XT 60 or the 125 would be great choices. I'm told the 125 flies the same as the 60. With that said, the WS is only 6" longer. So, you're not moving up that much in size. It's a personal preference thing. I think you'd be quite happy selecting the Pulse.
This concludes our Horizon Hobby PSA. :D We now return to our regularly scheduled program... |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
ORIGINAL: acdii I just compared the Dirty Birdy 60 to the Killer Chaos 60. The wing area on the DB60 is 688 sqi, and on the KC60 its 700 sqi. The weight of the DB 60 is 7.75 lbs, the KC60 is 6.5 lbs. Does that mean the KC has better wing loading? It is also a shorter wing. <div> </div><div>I'm about to order one, but unsure which one still. Leaning a lot towards the KC60 because it can take retracts. Landing characteristics, does the larger wing area have anything to do with landing speed? The description on the DB60 says it can slow down for landings. </div><div> </div><div>While landing speed is not an issue for me, length of runway, is. If I can get it down on the numbers, plenty of room to slow down, but if it dead sticks, I dont want it to fall out of the sky before I get over the corn. </div> A larger wing will allow slower landings. I remember the old Super Kaos I flew 35 years ago... it landed almost like a feather but then again, I built it from a kit weighing less than 6 pounds. If simple and smooth landing is your aim, aim for lightness and larger wing |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
I found a build by SeamusG on the KC. Found some useful information on it to, and have some ideas to modify it a bit to look like a P-51.
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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
If your talking kit building then reading the description gives you a ball park figure, not exactly fact, it depends on how the plane is built and they will vary from builder to builder. Don't get too hung up on things like wing loading or sq. inches. The planes are close cousins and fly like it. Look at the designs and buy the one you like the best. seamus and
ilikebipes both have a build thread on the kaos. {I think} Brian may have done his over on RC group? Both came out fantastic!! Who told you the Birdy didn't take retracts? I still have my plans and templates to the Birdy, I will have to see if I can find them and get a photo for you. However, either or if your thinking kit. Pick what you like, it's that simple. |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
I LIKE THEM BOTH! hehe thats the problem. I dont have $240 for both kits. LOL. However I saw your posts in that thread with your 3 models, the yellow one with flames and 91 FS. That is a very good build thread, and answered my question regarding a wing jig, and his was simple and looks like it works good, too bad his met an early demise. Surprised he hasn't chimed in on this thread.
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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
that can be a problem. i have the same one sometimes. it will work itself out.;)
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RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
Ha.. yep, it certainly will. I seem to have a "favorite of the day", ya know?
But, my two overall favorites are my Venus II pattern plane and my good old standby sport plane, my Skylark 70. Both fly like they are on rails. The Skylark, morso after my "instructor" and I spent some time with the trim, both mechanical and electrical. It is one fine flying plane. CGr. |
RE: Are Pattern Planes Good 2nd Planes?
Well i learned to fly with a Didty Birdy 40 and graduated to a 60 20 years ago, i loved those planes very user friendly. I fly a 90 Super Chipmunk now and there is nothing like it.
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