Returning to RC
 

Hi.Thinking about returning to rc. Have not flown since 1978. Flew for about ten years. Looking at the equipment today is mind boggling . All I ever flew was Kraft radios on the 72 bands. Is there any resources to get up to speed on the latest technology. Another problem is that most fliers now fly mode 2. I learned and flew mode one. I need to continue on mode one as I would always revert to what I knew. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
Bob

Many of the sets sold as mode 2 can be converted to mode 1 but not all The Spektrum DX 6 which is a good starter TX RX combo is one that can.

The 6 channel computer radio is pretty much the standard beginner unit these days. You can fly it as straight control like you did with your Kraft, or you can explore its features. The programming is easy to learn though, and really does make the planes fly better.

I recommend that you just change to mode 2. You have little muscle memory left from 49 years ago. I have friends that never left the hobby (from escapement days) and they all switched to mode 2 more then 40 years ago.

It makes more sense and equipment available.

IMHO

You have found the resource you need already... here. There are other forums as well.

Welcome back.

Muscle memory is remarkably persistent, can you still ride a bike? .

Anyway mode 1 is demonstrably better than mode 2 if you want to fly smooth maneuvers can all the leading F3A pilots who use Mode 1, including World Champion Quique
Somenzini. be wrong.

Stick with Mode 1. I also stopped flying RC around 1980. Started back up about 10 years ago. I'm glad I stuck with Mode 1. I felt like I was flying as well as I was in 1980. The new radios are fantastic. The radios can be bought set up on Mode 1 or they can be easily converted to Mode 1. I fly a Futuba 18sz now. If I would of had this radio back in the 70's I may have won a few pattern contest.
Ralph White
Neoga, IL

Yes.

I have a friend that is very fond of the saying:

"The older I get, the better I was"

The average helper at any given field at any given time will be a mode 2 pilot. They will be much less of a resource if you continue in mode 1.

Also all the used and much new PNP stuff will be mode 2.

IMHO

Planes don't have modes attached to them. Radios are set up as Mode 1, 2, or whatever. If he buys a bind and fly plane and has his radio set up as Mode 1, it will work with Mode 1 control.
Since nearly every radio on the market is designed to be sold all over the world, and since most European pilots fly mode 1 (explaining why mode 1 dominates F3A btw), nearly any radio you consider buying can be converted with just a little bit of screwdriver work. This is really a non-issue.

At the field when the cry "a little help here" is shouted, mode 1 is a disadvantage by number of helpers available.

At the field I fly, mode 1 pilots are expected to be in need of no help or to have someone prearranged.
130 regulars 1 mode 1 pilot.

It is to me a valid point to mention to a post in the beginner forum.

rmatt indeed since I believe you are in the US since the reference of using kraft systems in the past now is the perfect time for you to make the transition from such a long layoff. Yes I feel what kmeyers is saying is quite correct and it certainly would be wise in this country to make the transition, for the reasons he spelled it out. Not all system are so readily converted and some have to be returned for changeover.

While its true in this country some competitive venues tend to use mode one while many more types of venues do not. The fact is the vast majority in this country almost all use mode 2 and being compatible is a huge asset to you in not only getting help but also in buying/selling used equipment.

I have been steadily active in RC since 1959 and used most types of systems each requiring different technique and re learning each and every time, Single channel tone, single channel compound, reeds, single channel galloping ghost, single stick proportional, proportional mode 1 and finally proportional mode 2. All of those steps were for me a distinct improvement after a relatively short learning period. I made the final change from mode 1 to mode 2 about 1994 and never looked back.

The argument that mode 1 is better/smoother is endless as well as it is pointless for most here in the US since that debate was lost long ago to mode 2.

John:cool:

Thanks to all for the replies. Anyone the drove a vehicle with a manual transmission no matter how long ago can relate to this. I am now going to put the clutch where the gas pedal is and the gas where the clutch was. Who is comfortable driving like that especially when a panic situation arises. The mind reverts back to what it knew.
I have been reading about the modern radios and most of them can have the mode changed. Some with effort and some without.
What do you fellows think about the Spektrum line of radios. Thinking hard on the DX8 or DX9.
Thanks again for the suggestions

We only have one mode I pilot left at our field, but I've often wished I'd not taken the advice to do mode II. I got into RC in '74 when many pilots flew mode 1 and believe that they had better control because of avoidance of coupled control. When my friends had simple airplanes to fly, I'd fly their mode i and had little problems with them. Some of those mode 1 pilots could also fly mode II when helping others. None of those mode 1 fliers converted to mode II.

At any rate, welcome back to RC... Enjoy. I was out 17yrs and returned to great equipment and many old friendships and now am having great fun with a great retirement pastime.. Hope you do too.

rmatt, Before you buy anything, join AMA, go to your local AMA club, and get someone to buddy box you on a mode 2 trainer and see how you do and feel. Then decide if you want to stay with mode 1 or relearn on mode 2. Enjoy!

Remember the buddy box can be mode 1 with the master mode 2.

I have done this with a pair of Spektrum 6 units.

That's interesting, I didn't know that could be done. That would allow both modes to be tried for evaluation by the OP. OMHO the reasons stated for going with mode 2 are valid but it's up to rmatt. Like others, I only know 1 flyer who still flys mode 1, why be unable to share your planes and also be unable to fly your friend's planes.

"What do you think of the Spektrum line..."
Now that's a real can of worms. Rather than offer an opinion here, I'll refer you to the search tool. Take your pick of radio brands and do a search for them. Add in terms like "Spektrum problem" or "Futaba lockout" or "Hitec loss of control." Obviously, people don't generally make threads about their radios when everything is working fine, so trouble threads will give you a more negative view of a brand than the hobby as a whole has seen. But they do give you a feel for what the recurring issues are and how often they happen.

Return
 

First thing I did was join AMA

Got so bored quickly. Someone needed to edit that. I mean did they have to show the whole taking it out of the box dance????? I gave up after 2 minutes!

Radios
 

I did a fair amount of research on the major radio brands. Every brand has it's followers and dissenters.One just has to read the info, sort it out in your own mind and make the leap. That being said . right or wrong I ordered a Spektrum DX8.Seems easy enough to convert to Mode 1. As far as all the features, they are going to be new to me anyway. So that makes no difference. The learning curve is going to be the same regardless of brand.

You are on your way.... good deal.

I also came back into RC to find that radios had embraced micro processors and memory. The effort spent figuring it all out added to the fun (most of the time). It will certainly add pastime and no doubt getting back into the air will be enjoyable and... if there are still some of the old friends involved... you will find renewing those friendships very gratifying, plus the making of new ones. RC'ers are a great bunch... have fun.

In layman's terms please explain the difference from mode 1 & 2. THX

Mode I flight controls has the throttle on the right stick and the elevator on the left.

Thank you. Also, what's a brown out?

Brown out refers to flight power voltage drop. There can be several causes with the most often cause to be too great of load.

Edit: my answer was likely incomplete.. as it colloquially means that the reception ability of the receiver is degraded due to the lower power of the flight system due to higher energy demands.

In what circumstance would a novice like me worry about that? Much bigger and sophisticated aircraft? I'm not clear on your reply. THX

Digital servos require greater energy than standards for example so any system with a full house (four or more) digital servos should be a 6v system rather than 4.8 so as to avoid brown out. To make this easy... any plane larger or more complicated than a sport .60 size should probably use a 6v system.

I just started flying recently, so IDK what any of that means. LOL

Like a house, understanding is built one board or brick at a time. Enjoy the journey.

A brown out is defined as the loss of signal caused by to low a voltage on the receiver buss. This varies depending on the receiver design but is usually about 3 volts. This can be cause by several factors some of which are 1; to small a battery in so far as mah's go, to high an internal resistance of the battery, 2: high impedance between the battery terminals and the receiver buss (such as to small a gage wire or bad switch) 3: insufficient capacity from an ESC's BEC, 4: stalled servo or to much current demand from any device getting commands from the receiver, 5; many other possible causes. In most cases this can be prevented by just having an adequate power source for the receiver with good connections.

I like this, someone not afraid to say they don't know something. Okay, lets see if I can put everything into "layman's terms":
1) Brown out-pretty much covered but it's not enough battery for the load placed on it causing the servos to react slowly to not at all
2) Full house aircraft-one that has servos operating all the basic functions; ailerons, rudder, elevator and throttle.
3) Servo types-Servos have changed a lot over the years:

• A basic servo like a Futaba S148 is perfectly happy with a 4.8 volt battery pack. This is plenty for a trainer
• A digital servo like a Futaba S3152 will work on 4.8 volts but will work better on a 6.0 volt pack. This is good for larger sport planes
• A specialty or high torque servo like a BLS171 programmable requires between 6.0 and 7.2 volts. These are very expensive and would be used on high end planes

4) Battery types-These are plentiful and each has it's pros and cons. Many require a charger that is compatible with their chemistry
5) Transmitter Functions-These need to be gone over with an instructor since not everything your transmitter can do is needed by a trainer

Always use 6v or better packs in the plane. If going higher than 6v make sure the rx and servos are rated for the higher voltage.

I strongly recommend you use professionally built packs with soldered or welded connections. Loose cells in holders have caused many a crash.

Why? I run digital servos in my 1/8 scale hydroplane that are rated at 4.8 volts for the throttle while the rudder servo is dual rated at 4.8 and 6 volts. The load on the rudder servo is several times higher than anything you will ever see on airplanes and it works fine at racing speeds on 4.8 volts. I've run a full weekend, totaling eight five to six minute heats on one NR4J 600mah 4.8 volt pack without recharging the pack. Come to think about it, I charged that pack with a "wall wart" charger a few days prior to that weekend, put it in the boat and never pulled the radio box tape off until I'd been home for three days

If a servo makes enough torque at 4.8v to operate the control surface it is attached to, then there isn't a problem using 4.8v. But it has become standard practice with RC planes to use 6v for two reasons. First, it lets us use a little bit lower end servo and still get the torque we need. Second, it prevents the aforementioned brownouts.

Okay, I get it that 6 volts is "standard practice". I just can't agree with J.Dunker's statement about always using 6+ volt packs. IF the only servos that will work for a given application are rated at 4.8 volts, to use 6 volts will burn them out in a very short amount of time. The way I see it, there is a big difference between having a bit of power in reserve and just carrying extra power just to have it. Does a Kadet really need 6 or 7.2 volts to fly well? In a word, NO. They were designed back in the day of 4.8 volts and S-48 servos. HELL, my first plane, a Kadet Jr, was built using 4.8 volts powering three S-19 servos and even that was considered overkill for a 48" trainer. The Kadets haven't changed, only the radio gear and batteries used to control them. Even in the Kadet Sr kit assembly instructions, it lists this Airtronics servo:
94102 Precision Heavy Duty Bushed Standard 50oz-in at 4.8 volts, .22 second transit time for 60 degrees
If that's what was listed when the kit was first kitted, why do I need to use a 6 volt pack now? It wasn't needed back then so why the change? Is it because it's needed or just because it's there to satisfy those that think they need, to quote Tim Allen, "MORE POWER"?

You don't need to use 6v but it may be convenient to do so. I've fifteen plus planes in the hanger, all of them use LiFe battery technology because doing so simplifies things.

That said, I do have one old Cub flight system and a couple of ignitions with 4.8v restrictions. I've chosen to voltage drop for those requirements with diodes.

Each RC pilot has choices of what works best for them. There are no requirements that one must do things like others. If a method works for you... your good.

Hi Boner 321, I got back into rc after a 10 plus year lapse and went with 4.8 volt nicads for my recievers(it is what I know). The plus to this is that the charger that comes with your radio will charge them(400 to 700 MAH range). the disadvantage is first, nicads will form a memory and need to be run down(not too much though) to around 1.1 volt per cell before charging. Another disadvantage is at 400 to 700 MAH I am limited to around 3 flights. I will switch all my stuff over to LIFE once it is time to change them out(five years?) I am not sure even if life is the same voltage per cell as nicad, but for me 4.8 volts is all I need as I fly 40 size birds. I have built battery cyclers for all my aircraft so I can simply plug each of my 5 aircraft into a cycler and it will automatically discharge and recharge by receiver battery whith the battery still in the aircraft.

For anyone worried about ' burning out a servo ' on 6v instead of 4.8 v I have run a large variety of servos on 6v without any issues at all. Everything from sub miniature 2.4g indoor stuff to the brick size stuff in 150 cc 3 D monsters. You get a little more torque and a little more speed both of which are good. No body in the clubs I flew with ever reported a burnt out servo.

My main concern with advising beginners to avoid running on 4.8v is that some 2.4 gh receivers can temporarily fail and lock up when the voltage drops below a critical threshold even momentarily. This is called a brown out.

Lots more here on this topic http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/begi...-brownout.html

Running 6 v is a low cost insurance policy.

You are running two servos that are not constantly in motion....instead of 4 or more that are constantly in motion...