RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Skit..., I admire the passion you have in pursuing this hobby. You won't regret it and will probably be "bitten" by the bug. As anxious as you are to get into the sky with something remember this..The RC hobby is a bunch of grownups and young folks having fun with a grownup toy. It is serious business when it comes to safety and potential money spent. I well know how budgets can be tight. But, before you haul off and buy anything just to get something in the air, I really recommend checking out the clubs that have instructors and (ideally) a club trainer plane available. The cost to join the club may save money in the long run and membership will be less expensive than any trainer plane you will buy.

Another note....with upstate NY winter fast approaching, flying opportunities for beginners are few this time of year. My local club discontinues it's training activities the end of Sept. Take your time...as hard is it is to stay on the ground for now...Best of Luck to you.
Jim

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

I figure though if i pay $100 for a complete electric plane its not putting too much of a dent in the wallet, and if I bang it up a little bit not too much harm done, and then wait till I can get a job and save up enough money to join a club and be able to really get into it. Is this the completely wrong way to go about it?? Im thinking that I get that little electric plane, go down to the soccer fields fly around a little bit, and just get that little bit of flying experience with a cheap plane im not going to care much about, then over the winter I can save up a lot of money, and come into the hobby again next summer with quite a bit more money saved up, and the ability to afford to fly planes with a club, and have a nice model I can be proud of. I hope thats not too far fetched of an idea, because I really want to try this out, and if it means spending $110 i probably didn't need to spend then its kind of worth it to me.

Of course you are much more experienced than me, and obviously know a great deal more than me, so your opinion might be valued a little bit over my own, I just have always dreamed of flying, and since there is no way i'll ever be able to afford flight lessons, RC is the closest I can come :)

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Right On SKIT......Just was kinda trying to interpret your speed of "plunge" into RC. Sounded like you were sitting on the fence whether to buy a complete fuel combo trainer or going super beginner. Check out all the Park Flyer planes. Most are electric and many can take some serious abuse until they become un-flyable. It will give you some experience with basic controls before moving up to more sophisticated and powerful models. Many of the park flyers are hand launched so you can fly even after the NY snows hit. Course those winter winds are another matter. If you head out to a park or soccer field, watch out for curious kids that may want to get too close to the action. Those smaller planes can still do a lot of injury. Don't know your age but AMA offers membership discount to younger people. Don't ignore this aspect of flying. LUCK.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

A spad may be a good choice. They are not all that pretty but are tough and since you buy the parts you can rebuild them pretty easily. I would check it out.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Due to the time of year and your budget, You might want to invest in a good simulater program. I can recomend G2lite. It will shorten the learning curve when you get into the air! It will help teach your thumbs which way to move the sticks when the plane is inverted or coming at you.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Here are the specs for the plane you reference:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBUX7&P=K

I will make the following comments:

This plane is VERY light with a very small motor. If you fly it outdoors you will probably have to have VERY calm air. 5 MPH and under would be my guess. Is it normally windy near you?

The range is not stated. Call and check. Some of these planes have very limited range, as little as 300 feet in some cases. If you get out of that range, you lose control. That can lead to a crash or a fly away. Just find out before you send for it.

The charger takes 2 hours to charge the battery and you have to charge it in the house. I don't know how long it will fly the plane but let's guess 5-10 minutes. That means one flight every two hours if you have a plance to plug in the charger You will want to get at least two batteries.

If you crash it, and you will, where will you get spare parts? How much do they cost?

Don't forget to add shipping costs. Should be about $10.

Note that the throttle is on/off only. You can't fly at half speed, for example. It is not a proportional throttle.

Here is the plane for others to comment upon.

This is the J-3 Cub 180 Electric Park Flyer RTF Airplane.
An Easy Flying sport scale Model, perfect for Beginner or Intermediate Fliers.
Only minutes from the box to the flying field 98% Ready-to-fly.

FEATURES: All foam construction model Cub airframce.
Factory installed WattAge Elite 3-channel radio, featuring
porportional rudder and elevator control and motor on/off switch
with BEC.
Factory installed WattAge 180 motor.
Even the radio receiver, servos, and speed control are installed.
Very lightweight construction.
High-Wing configuration.
5-Cell Battery Pack
2 Hour Charger

INCLUDES: One J-3 Cub 180 Electric RTF Airplane with complete radio system,
motor, speed control, battery, and charger.
One Instruction booklet.

REQUIRES: Eight AA
Small Phillips Screwdriver

SPECS: Wingspan: 27.25" (692mm)
Wing Area: 108 sq in (696 sq cm)
Weight: 8 oz (226 g)
Length: 21" (533mm)

COMMENTS: CG and cotrol throws are preset by the manufacturer.




As far as clubs, contact any and all that are in your area. The address may be where this guy lives, not where the flying field is located. That could be 20 miles away. A quick e-mail to all the clubs in your area would be a good idea.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

I think the Aerobid Challenger is a better package for you. You can order it here for $109 plus shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=2563

It comes ready to fly, has full throttle contol and has a charger that works in a car so you can charge your batteries at the field if you want.

I would recommend this as a first plane for people on a tight budget, who are
flying in an open grass field, very large parking lot, large school yard or
large athletic field. I would also recommend this plane for people who are planning to learn
to fly on their own as it is very easy to fly. I fly in a large open field and taught myself to fly.

The Aerobird is very inexpensive and rugged for a three channel starter -
$110 (e-bay) to $150 RTF at your local hobby store.
The plane comes complete and fully assembled. Charge the flight battery, put
on the wing, put in the transmitter batteries (included) and up you go! Don't
forget to watch the included Video and read the friendly manual, RTFM.

A new flyer, particularly a self taught flyer is going to crash. You want a
plane that can survive this period however if you crash too hard, there is a
full line of parts available at reasonable cost. You can replace the whole
main fuselage for $49 including the motor and all the flight electronics. A
wing is $15 and the tail is $9.

Batteries and charger:

The battery will run for a full 5-6 minutes at full throttle and 12-15 minutes
at half throttle. Unlike many of the 2 channel starter planes that come with a
2-3 hour house charger, the Aerobird comes with a peak charger that you can
use in your car or off a jumper pack. ( I can explain if you don't know what htis is)

If you pick up two spare batteries you can stay in the air all day. A full charge takes about 30 minutes.

WIND

All new flyers should start in winds under 5 MPH so that you are learning to
fly the plane rather than fighting the wind. I didn't do that and crashed a
lot because of the wind. However, now I am very comfortable flying this plane
in 10-15 MPH winds.

I love the single stick radio. The rudder and elevator are on the stick and
the throttle is on a slide under your left thumb. It is similar to a Futaba
or Hitec single stick arrangement. I find it very comfortable to use and
other flyers who have tried it say they find it easy as well.

Here is a review of the Aerobird (pre challenger model)

http://www1.wildhobbies.com/news/def...&articleid=853
Here you will find Video of the Aerobird in flight
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html

So, that's my evaluation of the Aerobird and why I purchased it. It has been
my vehicle to learn to fly. I don't work for hobbyzone, nor am I compensated
in any way for my review of the plane. I am just a very satisfied customer.

Can you move on to other planes from an Aerobird? Sure!

I have two friends in the club who have had other planes for years. After
flying my Aerobird, both bought Aerobirds of their own and are having a ball
with them. One even successfully thermals with his.

Now that the aerobird challenger is out, you can use the Xport options for air to air combat, bomb drops an parachute drop.

Whatever plane you choose, I hope you enjoy it!

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Hi,

The Wattage Cub is absolutely a calm winds required plane. I bought one as my first aircraft and to be quite honest, it's only flown once in four months and that was by an instructor!

Anything over 3-4 mph will prevent you using it, I'm afraid.

After so many weeks of frustration, I bought a .40 size Trainer with an OS46LA and utilised the Futaba SkySport 6 Tx & Rx combo I got for the Wattage. I've had a lot of hours enjoyment with this and would recommend this as your way forward.

I was lucky, in that I got my plane from a friend in the Flying Club, brand new, still in the box as he ordered it from an LHS and because delivery was delayed, he bought another trainer from eBay. He let me have the delayed plane for what he paid for it (60.00 UK Pounds).

I'm now looking out for a second plane for myself.

Best advice for you is find a local club, go down and have a look and talk to the guys. There maybe a good trainer plane and engine that's looking for a new home - you never know your luck!

You seem full of enthusiasm, so go for it!

Cheers

Ric from the UK

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

hi,

i know the feeling, i started flying at school - i went before and after school!!

heres how i managed it 20 years ago.

i used the 2 channel kit i had from a car. bought myself a glider, simple one with foam wings. got myself a bungee line. got permission to use school field and got myself down there when i could. sometimes i crashed in the morning, glued it back together, and went flying in the evening.

if you dont want to join a club its a good way to do it, but you need patience. lots of. the great thing about the bungee line is that it gets the plane up to a suitable height to start with, very easily - it'll take itself up. then once your up there its down to you!! i left the receiver switched off once and watched it glide in free flight, it went in huge circles!!

i have electric now which is also good for learning, but not as cheap.

me and a friend even smashed up a futuba receiver as school boys and sent a begging letter to the company saying how we were only school kids etc and couldnt afford another, it was the end of our hobby....... - they sent us a new one!!

good luck.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Skitch,
First, welcome. This is a great hobby, and there are a LOT of terrific people involved.

Here's my opinion(s).
Find the local club closest to you. Go to the field on the next decent Saturday or Sunday, early afternoon. Ask about their instructor program, whether or not they have a club trainer, what brand of radio equipment the instructors have (you'll want compatible equipment), and whether they can fly year round at their field. (I belong to two clubs, can't fly at either once the snow flys.)

Base your next step on what you learn. But I agree with aeajr. That Cub won't give you many chances to fly, and don't underestimate what people are saying about wind. Although I generally don't recommend buying an electric if your goal is to fly glow, the Aerobird that aeajr is recommending seems to be a decent value, and WILL give you a chance to play around this winter. (You obviously don't have a car though, so you may need to buy a different charger.)

Join the club and attend their meetings; you'll learn a lot and get to know the great group of guys you'll be flying with. Most clubs have meetings once a month, and often have programs, like how to cover a plane, or how to repair damage. They will often have "Show and Tell", where members bring their latest creation to show off. These are all great ways to learn the stuff you'll need to know.

Will you be able to come up with another $350 to $400 by around February? If so, buy an ARF then, along with engine and radio equipment. You will have had a lot of time to research what's best for you by then, and assembling an ARF will take you close to 40 hours first time. (RTF more like 5 or 6 hours.)

In the meantine, get a simulator. Great Planes Real Flight is the best out there in my opinion, but the "full" version is around $200. They have a "lite" version that's MUCH less. FMS is a free simulator that you can download from the web. You'll need to purchase a transmitter and an interface cable. Here's a link to a guy that sells the cables, $22 shippied I believe. http://www.mattclement.freeservers.com/fms/fms.html

I'm going to end this here. But I'll post again with info on stuff you'll need.
Dennis-

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Okay, I'm not trying to monopolize this thread, but you asked for info! :D

This is something I wrote in response to a question about materials needed to get started with a kit. Virtually the same materials are needed to get started with an ARF, so.... Sorry if some of the info is redundant.

Material for Building

Glues: 30 minute and 5 minute epoxy, with something to mix it on and with, (old plastic lids and wooden coffee stirrers, plus small plumbers' acid brushes). Thin CA. (Not "Superglue".) You can substitute wood glue for the CA, but it adds time to the build.

Tools: XActo knife and extra number 11 blades. (Buy a box of 100, it's cheaper and you'll use them.) Razor saw; Kona or XActo. Kona is better. Steel straight edge, 18". A ruler will work but.... Sanding block and various grits of sandpaper. (80, 120, 200, 400.) Screw drivers, small and medium sizes, both flat and phillips types. Pliers, needle nose and regular. (At least one pair with side cutters for wire.) A good set of Allen or hex wrenches. (IMO, Ball drivers are a bit better if you can find a good set.) A "Dremel" type rotary tool will help a lot if you can shell out the extra dollars.

Covering tools: A sealing iron. A Trim iron will help too if you can swing both. A Heat gun made for covering. (Blow dryers don't really get hot enough.) More of those #11 blades for your XActo knife if you didn't buy the box of 100.

Check the kit (or ARF) contents. Most will have a list of extras you'll need to buy; like wheels, fuel tank (& size), fuel line, etc...

By the way. You should buy the engine and radio equipment when you get the plane. You'll need them all to finish the plane, and in some cases, you’ll need them to get started. Buy an engine on the larger size of the recommended range.

Some type of "flight box". (A plastic tool box of appropriate size and design works well. Some good ones at Lowe’s or Home Depot.) A gallon of 10% fuel. A fuel pump, manual or electric. At least three feet of fuel tubing to reach the plane and go from fuel jug to pump. A glow igniter with charger. Although not 'necessary', I highly recommend a 12 volt starter for the engine, because most new engines are quite hard to start with a "chicken stick", and it’s one more headache you don’t need when beginning.

If you buy a 'self contained' glow ignitor and starter, and a manual fuel pump, you won't need to buy a 12 volt battery with charger, nor a "power panel" to connect everything. (And you won't have cords dangling around your prop when trying to start the engine.)

Then, get a few props of slightly different diameters and pitch (in the recommended range). The engine directions should give you a range of appropriate sizes for your engine. One or two extra glow plugs should last you through the learning process.

The single most important thing that I would recommend getting is an instructor to help you learn to fly. They are also the single least expensive item you can get (free), and the single best piece of insurance that all your hard work building that plane will not be destroyed.

Good luck and have fun.
Dennis-

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Field charging

My referece above to charging at the field would be based on our young friend being driven by an interested adult with a car. However, if travel to the field is by bicycle, something like this will work.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/igadgets/tm-461.html

I use mine to power my 12V devices in my workshop. You would plug your 12V charger into this, like plugging it into the cig lighter port in the car. I have a larger version that costs more that looks like this:
http://www.overstock.com/se/Coleman_...ith_Light.html

This would be the lowest cost and lightest option for field chargin. You should get at least 4 and perhaps 8 charges out of this gel battery. There is a larger version as well at tower hobbies.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ2156

The smaller ones could easiliy be carried on your bike, along with the Aerobird, which comes in a box that works great as a long term storage and transport box for the airplane.

If you learn to thermal the Aerobird, as I have, you can stay up for a long time on one battery.

You don't ever have to buy one of these remote charge batteries. It is an option for the future that would let you stay in the air longer.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Well, I'm glad I was told about the wind factor now, because I was going to order that plane tonight, but now it looks like I might spend a little bit more and buy the Aerobird Challenger, which seems to retail just under $180, and I'm hoping to find it a little bit cheaper than that online somewhere (can anyone recommend any trustable sources for online ordering??).

jrpnde: I looked at park flyers, and Im not really sure what is different between park flyers and other electric planes, as far as i've seen all electrics fly fairly slow, and I thought that was the main idea behind park flyers. In the soccer field I'd be at there wouldn't me much chance of hitting people because the only time people are down there are when there are games, and if there are games I wouldn't want to fly anyway lol. I think im gunna find out a little bit more bout this plane, then see how cheap i can get it, then order it. We've been having a lot of rain recently, so im hoping it would end by the time i get the plane :D


Thanks to everyone who had suggestions...

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

1) Aerobird can be purchased at most hobby stores for $149 and on e-bay for $120 or less. That is where I got mine. While I would suggest you take your first few flights in wind under 5 MPH, once you become good with it, you can handle 10-15 MPH winds. When everyone else is grounded, the Aerobirds at our club are still flying. Part of the reason for that is with the Aerobird you can take some risks because it is so rugged. I have over 100 flights on mine and have been teaching new pilots on the Aerobird for months. If you want more info, let me know.

2) Parkflyers are typically planes of slow to moderate speed. However you can buy electrics off the shelf that will break 75MPH. The Twinjet would be an example. Some may exceed 100MPH. So, don't assume because it is electric it is slow. You could be in for a big surprise.

While there is no formal definition of a parkflyer or a slow flyer, I would say the Aerobird is in the parkflyer but not slow flyer class. It's typical flight speed is in the 10-25 MPH range. I would catagorize a plane as a slow flyers if it can sustain flight under 10 MPH. The Tigermoth would be in this class.

So, in my language, all slow flyers are parkflyers, but not all parkflyers are slow flyers. And, some slow flyers are really indoor flyers that can only handle very minimal wind. Again the Tigermoth is one of those transition planes. Really starts having trouble at 5 MPH wind speeds.

Hope this is helpful.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Yes, very helpful, as was the post about battery charging... I would be in a car most likely, I'm pretty against riding my bike down busy roads with an airplane. I'd probably go down with my dad or something and we'd just take turns flying it until we got bored or broke the thing. Also looking replacement parts are extremely cheap, and I like that. With this plane I'm going to try to teach myself, then once I get money saved up I'm going to join a club and get lessons on a glow plane. I got an e-mail back from that club owner, and their field is near Green, but only like 15 miles from my house, so when their flying season starts i'll be down there checking everything out. I found it on Horizon Hobby for $149 and I'm prolly gunna buy that since its my mom's credit card and I don't want to be scammed on e-bay, i assume that horizon hobby is a pretty reputable company.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

All right, one more quick question, is the Firebird Commander any good?? Its only $30 cheaper so I'm not sweating the price, but thats an extra battery probably if this plane would be all right to fly

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Is the Commander any good? Sure it is good, but I don't recommend it to anyone who can afford the aerobird. It has no elevator control, so if you get it up in the wind there is a very good chance you can kiss it goodbye, like two that were lost at our field.

If you want to fly, get the Aerobird. If you want to play, get the Commander.

No disrespect to the Commander, but but with throttle and rudder only, you are not in control of all three axis, so you are playing around. With the Aerobird Challenger, you have control so you are flying, in my book.

Also, you can pay $22 for one batteryt or you can by 5 for $29.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=34056

See, I saved you a bucket of money. Get the Aerobird!

Here, $115 - I saved you another bucket of money. Get the Aerobird
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...&category=2563

Any questions?

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Holy wow, you are amazing :) Tomorrow hopefully my mom will let me use the credit card finally and i'll prolly buy those right off of ebay... do they look like pretty trusted sources to you?? (i've never bought anything off ebay before, so i dunno about anything)

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Hold up...before you go and buy the aerobird..(a good plane in it's own standing) try toytronix t-hawk. http://www.readytoflyfun.com

Trust me...you can not go wrong with this plane. Check out the parts and spares. Plus you are getting a conventional T-tail setup, which is alot more responsive than the aerobird's v-tail surface. I have owned since earlier this year, logged hundreds of flights on it. Be sure to get the ultimate ss nimh combo, as it's the best setup out of the bunch. IMO, a better flyer, deal than the aerobird, unless you want to dogfight with friends or something.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Pete,

I like the T-Hawk. We have two in our club. However That package is $40 more than the Aerobird. And, if he gets the battery package I recommended he will have 6 batteries and a 12 V peak charger for the same price as the T-hawk.

I do take exception to your comment on the conventional tail being more responsive than the V tail. With six Aerobirds, three of which are Challenger models, and 2 T-hawks at our field I have not seen any evidence that the T-Hawk's is any more responsive than the Aerobird Challenger in Pro Mode.

However we split hairs here. He is just trying to get in the air with a 3 channel plane at a good price. The Aerobird is a stretch at $115. the T-Hawk is another $40.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

As long as you are buying new on e-bay, you should not have a problem. Many of the sellers are actually hobby stores. Buying used stuff can be tricky, but this item is new.

As for the batteries, I purchased the same package. They are new hobby zone batteries. No problem.

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

HOLD IT!
Check this out B4 you buy something. $125 RTF, NEW OS .40LA, JR servos, etc.
Good Luck on your search,
Steve

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Sorry, I forgot to post the link:
http://www.********.net/forums/showt...5401#post35401

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

I posted in that thread, not sure if he will ship it though, he says within 100 miles of his home in IL, and I'm pretty sure I'm a lot more than a 100 miles away. It also does not say if radio is included, just says that servo's are there, and If i pay $150 for the plane (gotta figure in shipping) then I will not have enough money for the radio (which of course wouldn't matter because I wouldn't be able to fly it till next year anyways)

RE: Complete Beginner Under Tight Budget, please help
 

Great! $125 is a good deal. Now, what does he do about buying a radio to go with it?