Biplane as second plane
 

Would a biplane be an o.k. second plane? Th Gee Bee dreamer maybe? Suggestions?

Thanks

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

really no bipe makes a good second plane IMHO. what are you flying now? there are lot's of good low/mid wing tail draggers that would make a better 2nd plane than ANY bipe. BTW the Gee Bee is a very poor choice if you have to go bipe, short coupled and ground handles poorly. if it must be a bipe the pheaton II handles well as does the Hog bipe...ultimates are not bad either. try to stay away from anything short coupled like the Gee Bee, Pitts and so on. oh and most all of the WWI and vintage type bipes aren't very friendly either.


John

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Some variations of the DH Tiger Moth would do fine as second planes. its an unusual biplane is several respects and that is one.

The GeeBee Products kit would be OK if you can do a good job building it. (here's where Biplanes really hurt beginners... getting the wings on straight) If its straight, it can be trimmed to fly just like your Sig LT-40.

I haven't actually flown any of the ARF Tiger Moths so can't say how they would do... but I'd be optimistic.
*****

Things to remember about biplanes, especially moving from a tricycle gear trainer:

They are topheavy, and tend to have slightly narrow landing gear. Very easy to drag a wingtip. (you also have less ground clearance from the wingtip than that High wing trainer had...)

They lose airspeed FAST when the prop stops turning. Some seem like they glide at a 45 deg angle (sort of like a rock) Prop stops, get the nose down and turn for the runway FAST.

You will be going from trike to taildragger... Its a whole new skill to do a take-off. Be gentle advancing the throttle and its much easier. A little up elevator until you have some speed to make the rudder work, then let the tail rise.

Landing is about the same... except for the steeper approach angle. and its very easy to give too much up elevator and harder to recover from a stall near the ground.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Is it true that it is really difficult to determine if it is upside down or right side up if you loose concentration?



Wings

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

yes it is true that it could be difficult to determine the right side up or upside down thing. I wouldnt recommend a second plane as a bipe. master a low wing TAILDRAGGER before going to bipes. a tail dragger is a hole new world compared to your trike trainer. right rudder on take off a little and ease up on elevator...its tough. once you master tail dragger, go to bipe. I remember my first tail dragger flight, i fishtailed down the runway from over compensating rudder and trying to keep it straight! now its automatic, i go full throttle takeoff, my thumb is already at the right amount of right ruddeer, its a "feel" sorta thing.....dont go bipe, go with a super sportster or something, they are great first low wings, and they are are fast too, even with a .46!!

sean

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

The Dreamer bipe is VERY small. Unless you are proficient at close in flying with an extremely "loose" airplane, I would recommend against it.

FH Huber has brought up some very good points. Get familiar with a low wing tail dragger first. There are some differences between how high wing and low wing planes fly. The low wing plane will not be as self righting as the high winger, and will also roll more easily. Things you have to get used to before stepping up to bipes. The take offs and landings will be different with the taildragger also. Stepping into a bipe as a second plane will make it much harder for you to learn what you need to learn and not be constantly damaging or destroying your second plane.

Be patient and make the bipe your 3rd or 4th plane. By the way, my hats off to you for considering building a kit instead of an ARF. Way to go!

Fly and have fun,
Silversurfer

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Try this... build a Four-Star 40. I seem to remember someone taking one and clipping the wing, then making a second clipped wing and turnig it into a bipe.

You could learn the low wing characteristics... then advance a little by clipping the wings, then do the bipe conversion.[8D]

CG moves forward when you add the second wing... as the second wing is monted a bit forward. Since I had to stuff my RX battery as far back as it would go to ballance my Four Star as a monoplane, that should not be too big a problem.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

I'd second the Super Sportster. It was my second plane, first taildragger, and I learned a LOT with that plane. (Bought another one this year because I liked the first one so much.)

Leave the bipes for a third or fourth as recommended. There IS one biplane I'd say "maybe with an instructor", and that's the Super Sportster Bipe. It flys much like the Sportster with no bad ground handling traits, but it does need to be landed faster. Real problem is that it's been out of production for a long time, and finding one could be real difficult. (I still have one that's seen too much abuse. Thinking of trying to rebuild it this winter, but... :( )
Dennis-

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

All planes can give you an orientation problem, but Bipes can really play tricks on you. Even more so due to the extra set of wings. Your eyes just go a little "Buggy" until you get used to seeing that extra set.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

That was a good example. That's like one of those mind trick pictures in a psycology book. I'll bet color pattern is important with bipes.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Send it to Ripleys

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Color pattern is important with ALL models. That is one reason you see such vivid patterns on the top of trainers and usually a blank lower surface of the wint with maybe a wide stripe on one side. The ARF's aren't done that way just for pretty, it makes it easier to maintain orientation.

But the silohettes are important to think about even with good color schemes... under certain light conditions that is exactly what you will be seeing, no matter what colors were used.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

how did you know i had an lt-40?

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

My second plane was a Great Planes Ultimate 40 BIPE..I found it to be very easy to get use to and it landed smoother than my Avistar..Had no trouble with it being a tail dragger..Just my experience...

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

It all depends on how skilled you are and what if any flying problems you have. I own the WACO 60 and with the throws turned way down it is very easy to fly and land... No real bad habbits... Just wants to take off in a very short distance... So you have to be ready... I would read some of the forums on it... Landing gear needs to be reenforced... I love mine ...

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Well the LT-40 was just guessing... but its a typical introductorey aricraft, gets a lot of good reviews and recommendations. its not a bad guess. ;) (and all the other trainers are close enough to it in flying characteristics... they may as well be Kadets)

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Bull-RCU,
Which kit/ARF is that Waco, Global?
Dennis-

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

Second Plane.................I agree with most of the guys. A bipe as a second plane is quite a handful. My second plane a shoulder wing GP Easy Sport 40. This plane is quite responsive advancing you for aerobatics. You can fly it wild or tamed. With an Fx 46 this plane flies great, easy take off and easy landings. I built mine as a trike. My third plane is a Funtana, still in the process of building it. But I'm not at the 3D stage, but still flies docile as I've seen others. I'm now building the Pica Waco YMF - 3, 1/6th. scale, by the time I'm finished building this baby I should be ready to fly it, still that's going to take to the fall. So actually a bipe is going to be my fourth plane. It takes a lot of time to build a bipe, and also money. Bipes are wonderful but......rudder, rudder, and has to land with power, it's not a trainer or to the novice flyer. Then again it's only a matter of opionion and skill.
Good luck.

Garthwood

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

The WACO I have is made by Sportsman Aviation and sold by Hobby People. I think it is sold under Global too. www.hobbiepeople.net Right now I think they have it on sale for $199.00 Some have said it's been on sale cheaper elswhere... Right now I have the WACO 60 / Super Flying Models Eindecker / GP Shoestring / GP Stuka / KMP GEE BEE / Trainer ... WHO KNOWS? / In flying ease I would say TRAINER / Eindecker / WACO 60 / Shoestring / Stuka / GEE BEE. With this plane I really don't think it is that hard... It's the only BIP I've flown so I don't have another BIP to compair it too. Landing is easy... Take offs are a breeze ( Just be ready because it takes off in a very short distance)... If you turn the throws up it can be touchy, but just turn them down and put some expo in so the sticks aren't touchy. I have more problems with my beige Eindecker as far as orentation goes... Color scheme make this one easy to see... Maybe if you get it a long ways away from you...? It's flys so nice slow that I keep it in close and fly it slow and very scale. Really it depends on your skill level... I have only been flying a little over a yr.... I love it and put a lot of time on the REAL FLIGHT SIM. When I started out a lot of guys were saying fly the trainer for a couple yrs the move up to a 4 star 40 ... then some day when you get better you can get something like us... Well... all I can say is if you fly with confidence and practice and you are not dangerous with what you do ...Get a plane you like.... hook up to a buddy box if your not confident with your skills with one of the instructors... see how you do with it... If you go to the field thinking you can't do it then you won't! I'm not here telling everynew person should get the WACO as a second plane... I've seen a couple guys who after 10 yrs... should get a WACO... Don't let the plane scare you... If you can fly without haveing to think about every move then you should be fine... LOL BUT IF YOU DO CRASH I"M NOT BUYING YOU A NEW ONE....

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

If you really want a Waco, step up just a "little" and check out the one from RC Showcase. It's a fun build.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

BULL-RCU, how long have you been flying? You have all those other sporty fast and fun aircraft in your hanger, and the WACO is easy to you. I am not flaming, just trying to point out that you have a lot of planes and know what the "feel" to flying RC is like. A beginner who goes from trainer to WACO may not think the bipe handles like you say it does. I am sure that to you, me, and other advanced pilots that have used a low wing taildragger, the WACO is easy to fly, but that is because we have handled doiferent aircraft from mild to wild. here's an analogy if you dont really get what I am saying:
An F1 race car driver may think a Ford Mustang is easy to drive, handles corners awsome, whatever. Give that powerful new mustang to a 16 yearold that just got his licence and has been driving moms 4cyl escort around, what do you have? A dangerous person that thinks he can drive good.
E-snake, i mean nothing against you in this post, i am not calling you dangerous or anything, its just that a bipe WILL be too much for you. Trust the majority of people in this forum, low wing tail dragger, then BIPE! You will have more fun because you will be less likely to crash your new plane and you will learn skills that will carryover to your bipe as a 3rd plane!

sean

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

SEAN

I understand what you are saying and now that I think about it more... You are probably right...

I just started flying with the RC CLub this last spring... I know I am not the norm... I baught a REAL FLIGHT SIM for the computer and spent last winter learning on that... I play on the Fight sim almost everyday even if it is only for a few min... I have raced rc cars before that so orentation hasn't been a problem... I really think it is a matter of stick time... I flew at my own club field a lot, but for a change of pace I went to an air field that is not club owned, and open to public as long as you have your AMA card and flew... THE BIP and my Eindecker... I love scale flying... unlike a lot who think it's about speed and hovering... Which on some planes it is! (GOD bless them) I like the beauty of the planes and I try to make them fly very scale... At the field ( I knew no one ) a bunch of guys came up and complimented the planes and my flying skill... saying how hard it is to make a plane fly like that... They assumed I had been flying a long time and asked if I had just moved here because they hadn't seen me before... I'm not a kid... 41 yrs old... Just love this hobby. LOL You should have seen some of the guys faces the first couple times I brought out the GEE BEE, most didn't think the plane would fly let alone me fly it... Like I said in my post... If I had listened to most at the club I would be flying my trainer still... I think it depends on the person... If they like Biplanes and they really want one... The WACO 60 I have is not real hard... ( To Me ) I'm sure it's easier then the Pitts / Ultimate. Just know your skill level... and ask for help... If someone buys it... puts it on a trainer box with someone and they can't handle it... set it aside till there skill level advances... But as I said maybe you are right... there are guys at my club that have been flying 10 yrs and still flying trainers... and crashing them... everyone is different.. Would hate to say YEA get one... and have them go out on there own and crash it.. and end up with nothing... Thanks Sean for making me think about it more...

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

:D

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

I'm kind of nuts.... darn near any plane can be used as a trianer flying at cruising speed with some altitude for safety.

I HAVE given a lesson using my [X(]Fokker Dr1[X(], and it went just fine. (but it was a somewhat exceptional student... almost ready to solo his trainer.)

While on a buddy box with a pilot capable of handling the aircraft in any situation the student can put it in... you can use anything to give a lesson.

What's that got to do with a person wanting a Bipe as a seecond plane? If he has the right help... it will work.

RE: Biplane as second plane
 

My second plane was an Areomaster bipe kit. 60 size. This was way out of production but found it at a sale still in the box. This was my first ever kit and second plane. built extremely light and floated dead stick real well. Most bipes tend to float like a brick. take offs are tricky if this is the first tail dragger. slow steady increase in speed until the tail comes up the a quicker smooth increase in rpms until at full throttle while keeping it balanced on the mains and running straight down the field. This is to make sure you have enough speed up to make the ailerons effective. Too soon in the air an it will stall over and DIE. Landings are keeping the power on until you clear the edge of the field the idle back. CG is very important.