RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

It may be taking a while but it is coming along. Good work is more important than speed.

Tortoise & the Hare

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Thanks for the encouragement guys! Mike, if you do end up starting your peashooter, be sure to let me see some pics of the build. A few posts here on RCU would be great!

It is definitely a drag when you can't get any time to build. I can see why the ARF's are doing so well these days. It sure is fun to see a new airplane materialize from a box of balsa planks and sticks, though!

It looks like it's going to be a while before I can get back to work on the BBS. [:@] Maybe in a week or two. Hopefully!

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

There are some weeks when I only get a stick or rib or two done but it is all progress. Sooner or later a plane magically appears out of the pile. :)

Try to do just one piece a day or week if you can. (More if possible of course) Set a goal like that and you may be surprised at what happens.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Howdy..... Wow, great build... a word to the wise tho, those planes seem to be a passion, which is good, you seen very articulate which is also good. Their in lies the problem, as I have found out, repeatedly the more passion that goes into the build, the more critical is the end result. Critical to the crash that is..... The many posts that suggest training out on your own arf or a clubs trainer is Very Important... and hopefully you will have a buddy box hooked up for the critical first flights of your own birds.... Todays ARF's and RTF's only cost you dollars not sense..
I didn't notice if you had rsolved the landing gear "skirts" thought, but here is my 2 cents, on landing and takeoff an incredible amount of force is applied to that point, flexibility is essential, stiffining up the gears in my guess will result in fractured covering materials. Just a thought...... Good luck with those planes!!!!!!! Captain Crash been there done that, hahahah

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Here's a couple of kwik piks to let you see how far along the Black Baron is now.

We haven't been able to do a whole lot of work on the bird lately, but we do have some paint on it now and clear coat should be next. We hope to start covering by the 11th. If our luck holds, (and the kids cooperate!) we should have it done by the end of the month and ready for the engine to be broken in.

The weather up here in NH has been quite unpleasant for R/C to say the least. Rain for two weeks straight. Not even a break for Labor Day Weekend![&o] The only thing good about that is that it keeps us from rushing to get this plane built.

Our plans are to cover the fuselage and wings with Monokote Insignia blue, add some polished aluminum and yellow stripes for the sides and cover the bottom of the wings, horizontal stab and elevator with black and yellow checker patterned Ultracote. Wish we could have found the same pattern in Monokote. Ultracote is VERY expensive!

We'll probably add some sort of accent to the tops of the wings using the aluminum and yellow. Still thinking about what we want. Not too little, but not too much either.

Here's our pics:

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Coming along well. Need to get an inexpensive ARF and go practice flying so you don't ruin it on the first flight. Don't recall if you ever stated your RC flight experience.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Yes, I have to agree with everyone else about getting an ARF trainer, there is nothing like losing your brand new kit built planes. www.richmondrc.com has some very nice trainer ARFS that build super quick. You will be happier that way, there is nothing wrong with having an extra trainer around.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

I would get an arf trainer. Those planes look too good to let go of. I would get an ARf from tower or somewhere else. All the hobbico birds fly good. I had the superstar, and it flew great.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Well, I'm going to be the one to disagree. If you have a good instructor, and you are going to train on a buddy box, there isn't any reason to buy an ARF. I've been an instructor for about 6 years now and I've never lost a students plane yet. Years ago before ARF's came on the market all that you could do was build the plane yourself and then fly it. ARF's are nice, but unfortunately they make people lazy. Too many people will damage an ARF and instead of spending some time to repair it properly, they get mad and throw it away and go spend their money an another ARF. I've salvaged some nice planes out of the trash cans at the field, take them home, fix them up, and either fly them or sell them. It's too bad that so many people these days don't want to build. It's a fantastic feeling to see something you built take to the air.

As somebody that has built many a plane, I can tell you there is nothing that feels as good as seeing the plane that you built flying. It's a great feeling. If you've got an instructor don't waste your money on an ARF.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

You are right Ken, I went back and did some reading and in post #36 they describe a great situation they are in. Club, instructors, club trainer planes to brush up on. All is well.

Go for it. :)

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

i have to agree with building. i was building until i was given a plane. now ive taken off doing some scratch work and converting my trainer to low wing(and adding ailerons:))

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Guys,

Thanks for all of your input. It really means a lot to us to get such feedback. It's easy to put "blinders" on and lose sight of our other options. Thanks for giving us other ideas that we probably have not thought about.

After the numerous replies encouraging us to look at different trainers, I looked at the ARF's that are out there, and I was going to try to talk my wife into spending yet even more money for us to get one, 'cause I didn't want to damage these airplanes on their maiden flights. I was then fortunate to learn that the club that we just joined had a couple of trainers in the hangar that we could use as members. That's nice to know. Now maybe we'll have a milder case of the "jitters" when we put the Black Barons into the air.

Not that we've had to worry much about that lately, though. It's been raining cats and dogs up here for the past two weeks, and now that the good flying weather has finally arrived, I'm out on a trip! [:@] Hopefully, the first bird will be completed by the end of June!

I think that we'll be building the second one throughout the fall/winter and it probably won't see the flight line until next spring. Good thing is, it will give us plenty of time to build it right. Game plan is to do a bunch of flying with the club birds and then move on to flying the first BBS this summer.

When we get back to work on the Black Baron in a week or so, I'll post the finishing pics.

Do you guys have any ideas on how I can cover the main gear struts (kind of like what you see on a cub) without stiffening it to the point it doesn't absorb the shock of landing?

Thanks for your help!

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

If that is wire landing gear, unless you like it alot, I would get rid of it and put some aluminum on there like this

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXJ922&P=0

Or i have this dubro gear and i like it better than than the metal. It is a fiberglass type gear.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXNM65&P=0


Also, I can't help you on where to cover it. If you haven't got the insignia blue yet, i will tell you now that it is beautiful color. I have it on my 4*

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Thats a beautiful bird.. I might have to find one somewhere down the line... Hmm

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

DuBro and Klett both make small nylon brackets specifically to attach wire to things. You'll probably need the 5/32 size, two per gear leg.

Simply fabricate your tapered gear leg cover from lite ply or balsa appropriately stiffened.

You can use either 2/56 bolts and nuts to attach the cover to the wire, or use a flexible adhesive such as PFM or silicone caulk, etc.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Well that's weird because if they shouldn't get a Trainer ARF then why the did you tell Pilot Chad to buy a trainer when he already had one? I just think that it's weird that you are contradicting your own advice from a previous thread.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Ken,
I would have to agree with brandon here. I had already soloed and yet you told me to get a trainer. This is quite odd. Are you judging since i am a kid, that I am not as good a flyer? Are you saying that i am a bad flyer and need a trainer? I have had a few crashes. That's my fault and i've learned my lessons. Just wondering why you change your mind here.[:@]

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Brandon,

If you remember the order of how the trainer suggestion came up then this would not be a question so I will remind you. The suggestion was made after Chad stomped his trainer. At that point he agreed that he needed more trainer time.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Chad, the only part of your flying that has appeared to be consistent is the crashing. You have not yet learned the very minimal basics that many pilots learn by the second day, such as taking off without stalling.

Thejetgod is also a member of a club who is going to have a competent, experienced instructor on a buddy box helping him. Again, you do not have this.

Several people, myself included, have made recommendations to you. Not commandments that you have charged us with. I watch your posts with great humor as you try to impress yourself and others with your vast experience and wealth.

Please continue to do so, it is very entertaining.

Have a great day.

Bruce [:)

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Bruce,
You have a PM

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Chad, No PM from you, if that is what you were implying.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Just curious as to why people are telling someone to get an ARF trainer when he already has a good trainer? With a good instructor, he can fly a build up trainer, and if he crashes it at some point, it will probably hold together more than a trainer.

The pictures of the plane you built look great. Looks like you are doing a good job. Get with an instructor, have it all checked out so it is set up right, and go have a ball. I wouldn't waste the time or the money on an ARF.

Just my 2 cents.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

I cannot speak for the others, but the reason I am advising them to use another model to learn on is because the model he is building has been long out of print and is basically irreplaceable. Additionally, it is not as stable as a trainer. And do you always assume that any old instructor will do? Just because somebody says "I are an instructor" doesn't mean he is any good, etc.

My point is, why should he risk tearing up a neat sport model that he's spent months building, when he doesn't have to? Sure, he'll have to risk it eventually. But at least give the model a chance by learning to fly first...;)

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

At the risk of repeating myself and being one of those who earlier recommended an ARF, I did go back and do some reading of earlier postings.

They have joined a club.
The club has several instructors they can choose wisely from and plan to do so.
The club has "Club trainer planes" they can use for initial flight training and not risk theirs.

Sounding like a non-issue. IMHO I also did not not want them to risk these rare planes as initial trainers and they do not plan to.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

I would like to know where I can find "Klett landing gear". I see it mentioned in the threads but can't find

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Get them directly from Klett.

[link]http://www.klettplastics.com/pages/1/index.htm[/link]

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

http://www.happyhobby.com/hobb_html/carlgoldberg.htm

These people list them for sale but don't show a picture or anything. Have not seen them myself but will keep looking.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Thanks for lnfo. on Klett. Will give them a call to find out measurements

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Finally, some work is being done on the trainer![sm=thumbup.gif] We've been busy lately on getting this thing into the air. If we didn't start hustling, we'd be looking at having to equip it with skis!;)

Eva is pretty good with an iron, so I made good use of her!:D I did some covering, too (mostly posing).

We've got the wing covered and I wanted to show you all our work and ask a few questions.

We used an iron for all of the flat surfaces and used the iron and heat gun on the wing. You can see our work in the pics below.

We pulled and stretched and pulled and swore and we never could get all of the wrinkles out of the wingtip. Is is possible to get it smoother than this?

And how do you get a perfectly straight cut along the edge when you are finished? Ours looks kind of ragged. I like to refer to it as "good from far, far from good".

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Plane is looking good. Uhh, how can I say this?? We need more pictures with Eva holding the plane. Pretty lady, you're a lucky man.:D

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Dave, that wing tip looks pretty good to me. The edges need to be ironed down with HIGH heat.

As for making straight edges over a leading edge or tip, your best friend is a NEW single-edge razor blade. I buy them in bulk packs of one hundred.

Harry Higley makes a gadget for this purpose that uses single edge blades, but it depends on a very sharp blade. Plastic covering dulls blades faster than you would ever believe; if the blade snags during the cutting stroke with the Higley tool, a ragged edge will result.

I have given up trying to make a perfectly straight edge when trimming a color border. I now cheat; I cut a strip of the darker color the necessary width to cover any waves, etc., and iron that down over the seam. Presto; a nice, straight color separation line.

Here's another thing to consider; keep your seams properly oriented. IOW, cover from the bottom up, and from rear to front. That way, the edges of the seams will be pointing "down" and "back" and therefore will not trap fuel residue and/or other crap, nor be susceptible to lifting from the slip stream. The one exception I make here is on wing leading edges. Sometimes you have to have a seam that is "up" instead of "down". No problem; seal it with clear fingernail polish.

In fact, I like to seal all my covering seams with some sort of fuel proofer. I have been using Hobby Poxy clear, brushed on, for this purpose, but my supply is about gone, and irreplaceable thanks to the enviro-nazis. I have tried several other things, without much success. The stuff that works best and most easily (polyurethane) turns a ghastly yellow in short order, especially on white covering. Do NOT use the water-based polyu; it isn't fuel proof, as I found out the hard way.[&o]

Your model is looking great; I'm still trying to find one of those kits.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Thanks, Bruce! Yeah, I got lucky. :)

Steve,

We've been keeping the seams facing backwards and downwards. Made a mistake on that on the bottom of the fuse, though. We'll be sure to throw some clear nail polish on it.

I'm posting a couple more pics so you can see our work. We have a good, tight covering job, with no wrinkles until you get right up on the seams. It looks horrendous in the photos if we zoom in on it. Standing about 2-3 feet away, you really cannot tell.

As you can see, I had to add some weight to the wing. It took about 1/2 oz to get it to balance left/right. There's actually another weight further inboard and on the trailing edge as well as the one in the pic.

Thanks for the hints for getting a straight edge. I'll have to check that out.

Does anyone know of a good source for decals for 1930's era lettering/numbering? I'm thinking of doing something like the Great Planes Shoestring for our paint scheme.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Dave,

As usual your build looks outstanding, the both of you must be very pleased. Good luck and keep us posted your progress reports are appreciated.

Regards

Mike

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Ah, so... I see what you're talking about now. I guess you've figured out that you went a bit too far with the overlap, eh?;)

No worries. Crank your iron up to max, then go over those bumps and ridges with moderate pressure. If you used UltraCote, most of them will flatten out. MonoKote? Well... I stopped using MonoKote because once it has a wrinkle folded back on it self, it ain't coming out. You can still clean that area up a bit with high heat, though.

I think your best bet regarding cleaning up the edges is to use a strip of your yellow/black checkerboard on the LE, to the mid-point of the leading edge. Matching up the pattern teaches you that, while checkerboard patterns are really cool-looking, they are a significant rectal discomfort if you have do some "adjusting".

At the tip, I would probably extend the blue around and across the bottom of the tip to get a straight separation line.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Steve,

Thanks for the tips. That is a pretty good idea for bringing the blue on the underside of the tip and giving a straight line break. We used ultracote on the bottom cause that's all we could find for the checker pattern. We used Monokote on top cause Ultracote is so expensive. We did find the Ultracote more forgiving. Guess that's what you pay for!

And you definitely are correct on the checker being a challenge to keep straight!:)

How's the search going for your BBS?

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

The search goeth poorly.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

when you cut the wingtip covering next time and a Sharpe single edge blade is a must i use probably three to four blades when I'm doin edge trimming is to lay the blade flat on the bottom surface as you can and slide the blade along,for me normally i get a pretty straight line still get a jag or two sometimes but for the most part they look good enough if you slightly squint............do the same thing when you cover the bottom with the razor blade as flat as you can to the surface.the airplane wont know it has slight imperfections though looks like it is built true and straight

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Alright Guys,

We're in the final stretch on this bird! (It's about time!!) I've got lots of pics for you, too.

We're held up waiting for some angle hold down parts from Tower. No one locally had them in stock, and because I had to place a stand alone order for them, they ended up costing me $1 each. [:@] So, when you see the misalignment on the top of the fuselage where it blends with the rear of the cowl, that is why. It is sprung slightly and will be perfectly lined up once our parts are installed.

I've tried to give you some close ups of key areas on the plane... servos, clevises, etc. I also wanted you to get a feel for the lines of the plane, and what it looks like over all. We have yet to put accent striping on it, but so far, I think it has turned out fairly well.

Problems that we encountered along the way:

The mistake on the dihedral brace that we told you about previously. Had a gap in the top of the wing to fill after they were joined.

Having to drill two engine mounts because I dorked up the first one!

Having no experience with fiberglass, my work on the wrap of the wing joint is fairly messy (in my opinion). I wasn't able to get a baby's butt finish to the surface. Ended up rougher than the wood surface around it.

Difficulties soldering the wire wrapping the gear down near each axle. I'll have one of the guys at the field check this out for us. Not sure I got it done solidly. It would be a shame to have it fail. This is a priority check item!

Here are some pics. I'll continue with more pics and the challenges we encountered in a bit.

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Challenges continued..

We got our servos installed and then I foolishly laid the control rods out parallel to each other. We could have gotten a better path to the control horns by crossing them in the fuse.

I installed the control rods and had the exit points built before I put in the control horns. Had one end up not lined up and had to rip out the exit point on one side so that it could be moved forward. OOOOPS!;)

Got the covering installed on the fuselage and then realized that we had worked forward to aft on the fuse instead of aft to forward. Doh!

Had a wonderful time fighting bubble build up on the panel surfaces that we covered. Got a woodpecker and after using that, things went much better.[8D]

Ran out of covering material and went down to the local shop to get more. Word of advice... Buy More Than You Need! We got the same color for the second roll (Insignia Blue) but it didn't match! Must have been a different lot. That's a sore point for me![:@]

Here's some more pics:

RE: Here's our trainer! (A work in progress)
 

Our Challenges Continued:

Had a tough time getting a smooth cut along the wingtips when we covered the wings. After getting lots of great tips on making these a little better looking, we decided to stick with what we had. Thanks for the advice guys.[sm=thumbup.gif]

Sliced the hell out of my finger with the hinge slotting tool. Be wary of wild #11 razor tips! You DON'T want to encounter one! (I feel that this tool may be downright dangerous!)

Here's some detailed shots of our Black Baron Special: