learning without an instructor
 

All the posts on this forum say that you should use an instructor to learn to fly and even people like myself who dont have any clubs in the area are advised to somehow find someone who can teach us to fly. Im wondering what it is that can go wrong when learning to fly, I mean I can understand that someone who doesnt even know the basic principles of flight would need an instructor, but what about people like myself who have flown on computer flight simulators etc before. Surely it would be a simple matter of taking off, letting the plane gradually climb to a safe height and then practice turning etc.
Okay I know that sounds a little naive to think it would be that simple but assuming that you have everything setup correctly wont the plane climb to a safe height without to much trouble? Then you have plenty of space to practice and get used to the controls before needing to come in for a landing.

The question I am asking is what sort of problems have other beginners had when first learning to fly? What can and does go wrong when your first learning to fly?

Regards,

Troy.

Go for it!!
 

Hey, I say GO FOR IT!!!!!!

All of us who advise beginners to get an instructor have no idea what we're talking about. We never actually needed an instructor either. We just did it to appease the old farts.

If you go ahead and fly the plane on your own; whats the worst thing that could happen?

You might get lucky and get it off the runway without breaking it or running it into someone. Then if you get it off the runway, it will surely fly straight and level and just climb gently to altitude without throwing you any curveballs, right? What are the chances that you might have the ailerons reversed, or the elevator reversed? Heck, I'll even bet a weeks pay that you'll have the balance perfect!!!!!!

Go for it buddy!!!!!!! YAAAAHHHHHOOOOO

It only costs about $500 to build a plane. You've got deep pockets and if you happen, by some unforseen reason, to crash it; just go get a new one, right? No problem.

I'll bet you can even land the sucker on your first attempt. After all, you do have extensive flight simulator experience. And any idiot knows that a simulator is "Just like the real thing". Flying a simulator has probably made you an expert pilot already, and you haven't even flown a real plane yet. Flying a real RC plane isn't all that different than a simulator. Just go for it!!!!!!!!!!

You might want to take a few pictures of your plane BEFORE you head out to the runway. Just in case something bad happens, and God forbid, you wind up taking the plane home in a trashbag.

Good luck. Heh heh.

learning without an instructor
 

Get a knowledgeable flier to trim your plane and make sure everything is sound. As far as learning, get Realflight G2 and be able to land on the runway 10 out of 10 times with all the planes. If you can do that, you are competent. What I did was practice taking off, doing a stall turn, then land. Take off again, tail slide, and land. I could do this 8 out of 10 times, then I started flying the trainer. Nerves were my only issue. Flying as a breeze.

learning without an instructor
 

If you want to fly, you can. But the reason you need someone close by that does, is the NEWBIES always try to fly in the next town, while they are still home, more planes have been lost to them being to far out and cant see what the bird has done before it finds the good old brown stuff. Or when you are doing a low approach and you want the bird to go left and it GOES RIGHT, because you feed the wrong control into the bird.
I did learn to fly on my own...... I had a bird that was strong at staying together. I landed on top of a barn, into the side of a hanger, through a tree more than once, in to a tomato field but I learned to fly by my self. this only took 3 months to do. Just have fun and take your time at this and you will be alright After all I SOLO-ed on my first flight. LOL

learning without an instructor
 

Troyp, i am also learning to fly without an instructor, and it's very daunting, especially on an old bipe ( tail dragger).

I have done a few high speed runs , almost took off, just to get the hang of it, but after a while I realised this plane is just too advance for a first time r/c pilot.
I m sure i could handle it, but its balsa and my thumbs aren't so experienced.
I have flow full scale Cessna 172s and microlights and turbine helicopters ( Alouette 2 ) fine on my first flights , but i sense something about these little planes, especialy the minimal response times.
A month or two back I was doing circuts on a Super Stick of my friend's, I found it OK, but wasn't happy about landing these things, in all I have flown 5 times.

Just the other day i found that I had some PVC pipe, and I am now in the late and finishing stages of building, these are semi-indestructable and 'ok' for learning on, not the best bye any standard. I chose to build the DPS, Das Plas Stick.

I feel my confidence growing, hopefully I won't become 'cockey' as they say. But I will be going solo on this spad and I think i will be able to do it now that it is a trike gear configuration, not as trickey as a tail-dragger.

Anyway, good luck for your endevours, I just wanted you to know that your not the only one in your situation, give me a shout if you want some advice, and I will keep you informed on my progress,
Cheers troyp,
LEDZ

learning without an instructor
 

I say good look if u want to try, i hear getting it down is the difficult part. anyway "Rcpilet" no need for all the sarcasm you coulda been a little more polite.

Also troyp, just check all the controls on the ground and make sure they function correctly for your given inputs.

learning without an instructor
 

Once it's taken off, you can't just let it climb. You're going to have to make a turn fairly quickly. That's not going to be as easy for you as you might think. For one thing, it's uncommon for a model to take off and fly straight and level. You mention it being set up correctly. Without an experienced eye, how do you know? Even if it is set up correctly, you're going to have to trim it out yourself. Trimming is something that takes a somewhat practiced hand. That plane is going to bank, pitch, and yaw without you making any control input. That's because there are subtle flaws in the design and in the build that require correction in the air. If you don't know how to quickly and accurately make those corrections with your trim levers, you're in for a world of hurt.

I don't think you comprehend just how quickly things happen when you're flying. Once you've learned, you don't think, you just react. In you're position you're going to have to race to think ahead of the model. You'll get behind it, and that's when the trouble begins. You're not going to have as much time as you think.

Are you used to the control reversal as the model flies towards you? Nobody is going to be there to mention pushing the stick towards the low wing. It's easy to say you'll do that yourself, but when it's up there you'll find yourself in a different state of mind.

What about the engine? How much experience with glow do you have? If it deadsticks, what will you do?

learning without an instructor
 

An instructor helps a lot when learning to fly. Sims are a lot different than flying a real airplane. They are a lot easier to land and take off.

Instructors are there to make it so you don't crash.....and to help you learn to be a good pilot.

A lot of people learn w/o an instructor, but they usually crash a few times before they are succesful.

I would say that having an instructor is a definite plus.

Have fun and good luck.

Re: learning without an instructor
 

In addition to what's been said, flying the airplane is only a small part of the learning process. For most newbies at our club, the first hurdle is assembling the plane so that it is flight-worthy. The next big hurdle is getting the glow engine to start and run reliably, and doing so in a safe manner. The third part is understanding everything it takes to fly safely. None of these can be learned on a sim. Most people (me anyway) learn things one at a time, so it's really nice to have an experienced person take care of all these things while you concentrate on learning to fly.

The advice about not going it alone applies to the typical .40 size glow-powered trainer made out of wood, because they are relatively fragile. If you have to go it alone, I would recommend either a park flyer, or an indestructable plane like the U.S. Aircore or the spad.org Debonair.

On a related subject, I was quite impressed to see that Hangar 9 is addressing the engine learning curve. According to their advertisements, they are now selling engines that are already broken in, with limits on the needle valve, and other features to make them easy for newbies to run and keep running. Yea Hangar 9!

learning without an instructor
 

I learned to fly on my own with no one around. After busting up two nice trainers, I realized I needed help or a plane that could stand hitting the ground. So I got a Sturdy Birdy. I crashed that thing about 30 times but was able to get back in the air right away every time. I definitely learned the hard way. What everyone is telling you is true, especially "MikeL".

Good Luck

learning without an instructor
 

Thank you everybody for the advice. RCPilet you did not need to be so sarcastic, I did not say that I am good and I do not need an instructor I was just asking what problems can occur when first trying to fly. MikeL answered the question perfectly and gave me a good insight into what I can expect if I go it alone. Unfortunately I do not have a choice as I live in a remote town in the North West of WA so we do not have any clubs etc here. But I might be able to find a fellow flyer that can perhaps teach me.

Thanks,

Troy.

learning without an instructor
 

Hi troyp,
no, you probably didn't like RCPilets answer,but it was truthfull,my aswer to your question is, hurt yourself,hurt someone else,crash,crash,crash,and crash again.If you don't run out of money and patience,you can learn to half a** fly,facts of life.
Have a goodun,John.

learning without an instructor
 

Troy, have you thought about taking a day trip to a more populous area to get some instruction? You seem motivated and knowledgeble, so an afternoon's worth of stick time might be all you need to get you up and running. Consider the amount of time and money you've put into this project, and the enjoyment you stand to get from it in the future.

idiots
 

It's idiots like "Rcpilet" above, who can't even spell pilot, who give
this forum a bad name. Hey, get a life and try and help someone
for once.

learning without an instructor
 

MikeL,

A day trip for me to the nearest town is Pt Hedland which is 600 kms away (About 300 miles). They do have a club there as I have seen thier website. I have heard of one or two people in my town who have planes and although I do not know them I might try and get in touch and ask if they wouldn;t mind helping out.

Thanks agan,

Troy.

learning without an instructor
 

I have a cousin who taught him self to fly he had a duraplane it is not indestructible but it did manage to survive until he could fly. I would suggest real flight simulator first to get the feel for flying. If you can find some one to help you do it you will save your self a lot of trouble, pain hassle and Money.

In my experience
 

As a recently soloed pilot (after 5 flights on the buddy box), let me add my 2 cents.

If you can't find an instructor, start with electrics. You CAN learn to fly a parkflyer with just a sim and a lot of glue. You could then move up to more and more advanced electrics and maybe safely fly a gas trainer without an instructor.

However, in my experience, DO NOT underestimate the difficulty in:

1) Getting the engine to run right. If your a novice, dead stick can equal dead duck. You may get the engine to run ok on the ground, but once she's airborne, all bets are off. I still get someone to check the tuning of my engine.

2) Trimming a gas trainer. I was flat amazed at where the flight control surfaces ended up after the ship was trimmed out. Setting them flat and level by eyeball was practically wasted time. On her maiden flight, she started rolling badly to the right and pitching down. Fortunately, the club president did the maiden voyage and got her up high enough to trim. I'd have lasted about 12 seconds.

In know this is a gas-oriented forum, and it is rare for anyone on these boards to admit electrics might be a valid option, but if you really can't get an instructor that's what I would do.

Good luck,

GB

learning without an instructor
 

I have to agree Electrics are a good starting point. I have a Mini IFO my father in law was over a few weeks ago. The winds where calm and I wanted to fly so I asked him if he wanted to watch he agreed and we went to the back yard. I flew it for a while and asked him if he wanted to. He said he was afraid of crashing it and breaking it. I let him know it was about as un breakable as a plane could be. He flew and crashed and flew again he is in his 70s he had a great time. After a few batteries he flew it into the pave stone wall beside my house. The stone cut the front bow. My father in law apologized several times for breaking the plane. I told him to stand still and I would be back. I grabbed the ca and my my magic dental floss and he was flying again in two minutes.

learning without an instructor
 

Troy, I learned to fly by myself and found it rather easy. You MUST have a plan. You MUST have a Biiiiig flying field. You must have a model that can fly by itself in little or no wind. DO NOT teach yourself to fly if you have access to a club and an instructor.

Another dissenting opinion
 

Troy,

While learning with an instructor is definately the better option, in your case it seems extremely difficult to get any decent amount of stick time in. RCPilet is an idiot and a poltroon. I taught myself to fly and I have never owned or flown a kit plane, ARF or RTF. Everything has been built from scratch and everything has flown.

Now don't get me wrong. The first attempt was crude and would have been trashed eventually anyway because it was not right, but I had a remote area to fly in so I wasn't worried about hurting anyone but myself. Remote areas sound like your forte`!

You have to resign yourself to the fact that you WILL crash! I went through 4 incarnation of the same plane before I logged my first (wheels on the bottom) landing. As long as the radio gear and engine survive, it does not cost $500.00 to build a plane. More like US $75.00-100.00 depending on the complesity of the plan and covering scheme. I have the plans for the very basic high wing trainer that I have been using. It's a .40 sized aircraft that I scaled up to .60. Bigger is definately better.

Probably the best thing you can do is buy and fly the hell out of an RC simulator. I have RealFlight by Great Planes. It made all the difference. It is not perfectly realistic, but it is good enough. I put about 30 hours on it and went out to fly my plane. Aside from hyperventilating a bit and getting sweaty palms, everything went extremely well and worked just like the program did. The problem with the simulator is that in order to keep oriented on the field, you have to fly low enought to see the ground. You have no other periferal vision and no sense of where you are in the pattern. Fortunately, flying low sharpens your reflexes... hehehe.

Anyone who says you can't learn to fly without an instructor is full of a bucolic endproduct fabled in song and story. The first guy to fly RC did it, with much cruder equipment than we have now... What they are saying is THEY couldn't have learned to fly without help. As I said, it is cheaper and safer, if you live in an urbanized area, to have an instructor. It is always easier to have someone give you hints and tips than it is to figure everything out by yourself. You wind up re-inventing to wheel and sometimes do not learn of things others know. On the other hand, if you have a bad instructor, well no one seems to want to talk about them. I guess they just don't exist...

Do your thing and if you are able to accept the fact that you will have some midair collisions with the ground, go for it! Nothing gives you a sense of satisfaction than doing it yourself, especially when everyone tells you it can't be done...

Post you progress and let us know how you're doing.

Cheers!

Ed

Oh Boy
 

Troy,

I believe you have been given the full gamut of advice here, so make the decision for yourself. I for one, have taught myself to fly, and now I instruct.
It didn't cost me a fortune, I didn't kill anyone, I DID get a few extra hours of "building experience", but it can be done.
It sounds like you live in a fairly remote area, so finding a LARGE open space should be easy.
You will probably want to start out with a "park flyer" type, or if you want to go with a gas plane try a sailplane w/a Cox Black Widow, or Texaco endurance enginge, or better yet, a Norvel- better, cheaper, and has a throttle. I can buy the .049 w/throttle for 30.00 near where I live,(new in the box) so if you need an inexpensive engine, I may be able to help.
The biggest single thing is this,
IF YOU THINK IT'S FLYING TO FAR AWAY, FROM YOU- CUT THE THROTTLE!!!!
IF YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO CRASH,-CUT THE THROTTLE!!!!!!!!
IF YOU AREN'T SURE WHAT'S GOING ON, CUT THE THROTTLE!!!!!!
And finally, turn your body so you are always facing the direction the plane is flying, you won't be confused by the control inputs when the plane is " flying toward you"......
Walk before you run, or glide before you fly...........
Feel free to e-mail me with 1001 questions[email protected]
I have time, and patients.

Jetts

YES, you can do it
 

Let me be the first to say that YES, you can learn on your own.

First and best investment is a quality flight sim program. Something like Real flight G2. When you do fly RF G2 purposly screw up the trims and reset them your self. THis will help you when it comes time for your real plane.

Next, read and ask 100,000 questions here and other places. Get the lowdown on everything.

Get a good quality trainer. I just soloed my Sig LT 40 ARF. I soloed on my first flight today. I have a good background in RC and have been flying RC Choppers for 3 years. I am also self taught in them.

You can do it, just take your time and have LOTS of patients.

learning without an instructor
 

Hi Troy,

It's all a matter of skill that can only be acquired with experience.

For example, you know what to do to get a note out of a piano , right? You just press one of the keys. Now try to play a tune, even a simple one. It's not that easy, even if you know everything there is to know about how a piano works.

When a plane flies overhead, it's no use knowing what would correct it if it turns left, you have to actually do it, using the finesse you have built up over the times it happened before.

Things happen very quickly when you are flying, and you can't stop for a breather, like when driving a car!

And here's the main point:- Even the best pilots in the world would almost certainly crash if they lost their 'finger memory'. You know that .. it's the thing that makes you do things without thinking. Just imagine trying to ride a bike if you had to remember all the time how to balance on it.

One further thing. If you have been learning on a simulator that puts you inside the cockpit (like the Microsoft ones) they are almost useless at teaching you how to fly a model, from outside the plane. There are a few commercial jet airline pilots in our club who were just as hopeless as anybody when they first flew a model! A model airplane simulator like the Realflight G2, however, is a great way to learn the finger memory skills.

There's no hurry. Every challenge you face will be satisfying to overcome. Just enjoy!

-David C.

Re: Go for it!!
 

Do i note sarcasm? lol.

dont fly alone
 

hi just to say im new ive flown 6 times i go to the club twice a week under instruction and believe me ive flown flight sim aswell its not the same these rc flight sims are crap i got into lots of trouble dead stick,and losing control i.e losing consentration it does take alot iout of you please get some help they are right you need for them to set the plane up for you check to see if its flight ready you dont want to crash your plane ive seen crashes and there not nice dont destry it after a few mins flying even gettin off the ground is hard work you have to take off in the wind and land in the wind your engine has to run just right please get some help ive heard alot about first time fliers without instruction and they all crash good luck there could be a club or a location where the fliers go to even send a letter top your local paper put a post in it asking for other fliers for help and its nice to have a instructor there to take the plane off you when you start to panic it does luck easy but its not

learning without an instructor
 

I think as you have a 600mile trip to the closest club you dont have any other option than to do it on your own.

I would try hard to find out if anybody local has got a plane, help will be invaluble.

Im also a new to flying and there is NO WAY I could land consistenty without crashing (after 2 flights on my friends trainer)

The chances that you will be able to get an out of trim plane up and down are pretty slim. If you do manage it then hats off to you :)

I think the best advice will be to try and read as much as you can on this forum (especially the crash section, then the building section for repair tips)
Fly the simulator, it might not be perfect but its not going to hurt..

If you do find that you keep crashing then you might want to look at the SPAD topic, I think in your case when your pretty much guaranteed to crash you will want the most crash resistant plane you get get.

Post how you get on, should make interesting reading anyway :D

Most of all, GOOD LUCK and have fun :D

learning without an instructor
 

you can do this by yourself !
filter through all the bull and give it a go
step 1 1/2 keep the antenna on your transmitter pointed in the direction the the plane is traveling, ( helps avoid control reversal )
Step 2 throttle back to half or less ( its easier to fix slow crashes and you might keep up with the plane)
Step 3when in doubt throttle off ... land
any good RC simulator will help. but it is different in the air with a plane

even rcpilet had some good thoughts
in a funny way

I have flow for years, Today I had my first flight with an IFO
in my front yard..... what a rush

I still am partial to a good 40 size trainer

ARF or Stick Built

remember your'e doing this for fun

learning without an instructor
 

Troy,
Hopefully you'll be able to discern the great advice you've been given, and ignore the sarcasm and doomsayers.

Please also note that I am someone who religiously recommends an instructor. But, if you can't, you can't. :(

A small, foam park flyer is a fairly good idea. It may save you money in the long run. (I'd suggest a GWS Slow Stick. It can use standard Rx and servos, so there's less long-term cost.)

Foam repairs more easily than balsa, and these things fly much more slowly than 40 size trainers. You get more reaction time.

A Slow Stick costs roughly $35 to $50 complete with motor, so it's not too bad.

The flight sim (especially if it's RealFlight) will help a LOT. Landing often with it WILL help, but is not all that close to real. The biggest aid will be with orientation in the air. AND with "finger memeory" that someone else mentioned.) His was good advice by the way.)

In any case, get to it! (And let us know how it goes please!) :D
Dennis-

learning without an instructor
 

Wow,

After seeing a new post to this thread appear in my unread posts, I was amazed to see that I had originally started this thread around 10 months ago.
Well for those that may be interested to know what ever happens to these newbies who come on and ask questions such as "Can I fly without an instructor?", heres how I went.

After reading as much as I could on this forum about rc flying and practicing taxiing up and down in the yard at work I bit the bullet one day and went out to our remote flying field. I started up my 40 size trainer and took off down the runway and into the air. The plane climbed rather steadily and I must admit I was a bit surprised as I suppose all the commnets I had read such as those from "RCPilet" 2 pages back, had made me think that these things will just dart about uncontrollably in the sky. The plane probably needed trimming but i was that nervous I didnt bother and just flew it at half throttle around in very close circles above me. I actually dropped the throttle to much and came in to land in the grass but I kept it on its feet and it didnt suffer any damage.
Since that day I had flew a couple more times by myself before meeting someone else who flys and was qualified enough to give me some pointers and help me out. Now almost a year later he has left town but the club we started now has 5 members and I am still flying my orignal trainer (although its a bit scarred these days.)

Heres our website.

www.westnet.com.au/htsbme

Regards,

Troy.

learning without an instructor
 

That is pretty cool. Glad to hear you are doing well. I am amazed when I hear of stories of people learning on the sim and then doing it with the real thing. I would have said no way but after seeing a kid do it one day, I was amazed. The sims are a wonderful tool.

learning without an instructor
 

So, I did it again. Got sucked into replying to an ancient post by somebody resurrecting it! :stupid:

Glad to hear it all went well for you Troy!
Dennis-

learning without an instructor
 

If there is no one around and all else fails... I would say invest into the real flight sim for your computer... it will at least get you used to the stick movments... I was flying solo after first day after tons of hrs on the sim trainer... its a great investment and will save you tons of agravation...

learning without an instructor
 

Troy,
Thought your name looked familiar, and locale too. I haven't been on the Universe for awhile, so thought your post was a new one!
Good good good!
It CAN be done, as evidenced by the uh, who was that? Oh yeah- THE WRIGHT BROS.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jetts

I would be interested
 

It would be interesting to see who exactly is so eager to prove you can learn on your own.

I mean, is it a macho thing, or a young thing, is there some commonality.

When I first started (I'm 40 now) I was pretty timid about going out to a club full of guys I didn't know and looking stupid. However, I had a friend a few years back who put together a glow trainer, drooled over it all winter, then the first nice day he took it to the field, the instructor didn't show up, so he started taxiing around until he broke ground.

Ten seconds later, he found the ground again. As far a I know, he never tried again.

So, I think its bad (yes bad) to encourage ANYONE to try flying a glow trainer without an instructor, no matter how much sim time you have.

So, I would be sincerely interested in finding out if the "You can do it yourself" is an "X-games" mentality, or if there is some other commonality.

From what I've seen, it doesn't seem to be age-based, but its hard to really tell from these posts.

Does anyone who did it alone want to provide some demographic data?

Tim

learning without an instructor
 

It is not impossible to fly without an instructor. I learned it all by myself. Had some experience with aerofly simulator but other than that flew by myself. Make sure you know about glow engines and safety. Other than that flying is easy if you have practised on a simulator but I assure you if you go all by yourself without even simulator experience then 99% chance is that youll crash.

Re: I would be interested
 

I'm teaching myself to fly. Due mostly to language barrier. ( Hard to concentrate with someone yelling in German) I practice on sims. I do dry runs ( have my wife hold plane and start to bank or pitch, I then counter with control input.) I bought a small two channel electric to practice orientation and get a feel for watching something in flight, I'm pretty smart about flight characteristics and what keeps an airplane flying.(from flying full scale) so I am trying to set myself up for success. BTW, I'm 26, I'm in the military and we use a method called crawl, walk, run. That's what I'm doing with this. I'm not out to hurt anyone. (I fly at a very remote field) It's kinda like being a pioneer. Someone had to do it. Will I crash, probably. But I think it will promote faster learning. Instead of having someone take control at the Slightest sign of trouble. Maybe I'm just pig headed, but it's the process that makes it exciting. Just my $.02

learning without an instructor
 

[B]

Ghostbear,

If you read my original post on the first page you would know that I did not learn to fly without an instructor by choice. I live in the North west of Australia in a town with a population of only 14000 people. When I started I did not know nor could I find anybody (and believer me i looked by placing ads in the local paper and putting up notices on local notice boards) anybody that could teach me to fly. What was I to do, just forget about the hobby altogether? Luckily there was enough people on this forum that gave me good advice and above all the confidence to know that its not entirely impossible to learn to fly alone. If I had listened to all the "You must fly with an instructor" comments I would probably be posting a message to the rc car forum right now as I wouldn't have learnt to fly.
I have not read one post on this thread that doesn't recommend trying to find an instructor or some other form of help, but they do understand the predicaments that I was in and suggested ways that I may learn to fly without an instructor.
These days if I see a newbie post with the same situation I was in and having no-one to instruct them, I will always make sure I tell them my story and offer encouragement so that they wont give up without even trying.

Troyp
 

I should have left out the editorial comments.

I really wasn't trying to pontificate on the evils of trying to teach yourself to fly (at least not this time). :-)

I really am interested in seeing if there is some sort of profile for the "do it aloner".

I would like to be an instructor (one day), and having taught community college, I've often found my perspective different than many of the instructor pilots who frequent these boards.

So, if there is a type of student more likely to try it alone, that would be a valuable thing to know.

Re: Re: I would be interested
 

Absolutely!

But also, unfortunately, a lot more expensive!

:)

-DC

Profilr/demographic
 

Jettstarblue-Self employed genius visionary, self taught flyer, thrill seeker!

Started in R/C- 15 years ago
42 now

Only two people of maybe 25 people that I couldn't teach to fly.
One was on major medication, the other lost interest before he really started.(my Dad, got into ultralights instead!)

Major Independent.

Couldn't find a club that was willing to teach, or really invite anyone new, only talk down, and be a bunch of good old boy know it alls. -this is wrong, go home and do a minor adjustment. Can't we do it here, it will take two minutes? No, take it home and come back NEXT WEEK! ECT.
Plus we need AMA membership money, club intiation fees, field fees, monthly dues, ect!!!!! Come on.

Married w/four Teen aged children-all girls! They fly on occasion, one since she was 8.
Fly full sized planes, and a major motorcycle fanatic- I own the only known running "Capriolo" Bondone in existance!
Anything else you'd like to know?

Jetts

Not an "X games type"- I can barely walk, thanks to an uninsured drunk driver.