Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

I am new at this? I am looking for a good beginner Plane to start of with,there will be two or three of use learning to fly.Now should I go around to clubs to see what they are flying to talk to the instructors to see what they use first, to get an idea what to buy. Is it better to buy one that is all ready flown?
I want to build a 81 inch DH. Mosquito from Bob. Do I have to learn again on a two engine trainer after I have flown for a while?
I guess I need all the help you people can send my way.
And thanks
Terry and my two sons Trent ,Jared
Mission BC..Canada

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

I would start with a single engine first, The trainer of choice at my club is the Sig Kadet LT-40 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXFG19&P=7
It flies very well and rights itself very well and is fairly aerobatic with more control throws, Used planes are kind of pot luck, Lots of times you end up buying someone's problems instead of a good plane unless you know and trust the seller. One thing to keep in mind when buying is to get a good engine because if you get one that is proned to problems you end up spending all your time trying to get it running right when you should be flying, My choice is OS FX engines but there a little more $$$$ but run great right out of the box and have plenty of power but there are some other great engines too for less, I've never had one but I've heard Thunder tiger engines are good ones too. Can't help you about the twin, Never even seen one fly but I do know there are a lot more issues with a twin that should be down the R/C road for you, Like if your 2 engines are tuned different of set at a different speed it will turn possibly going into a flat spin but I'm sure someone who really knows about them will respond.

Best of luck
Dauntae

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Welcome B.C. mosquito: I don't think any one can top your advice to yourself, IE go to the clubs and find out what your instructor recommends. It will most likely be the Sig LT-40. I prefer a low wing sport plane to train with myself. A Sig 4* or Goldberg Tiger, 40 or 60 size, I prefer 60 size as they are easier to see, and a little easier to fly.IMHO. Both of these planes exhibit excellent slow flying characteristics and land at little more than a walking pace, maybe a trot. I don't want my students to get in the habit of letting the plane right itself. I also found myself board with my LT-40 after a couple months, but I must admit if you want to solo sooner the LT-40 is the way to go. Either way don't attempt it with out a good instructor, and a buddy box. A low wing sport plane is somewhat harder to learn to fly on, but if people can learn to fly helicopters I see no reason it can't be done. I don't think anyone will flame me when I say Helli's are harder to fly than either of the planes I,ve recommended. As for a twin engine all I know is what I've read right here, I have never owned one. But I will tell you there is a wealth of information in these threads. Always willing to help. :D Happy flying. Garry

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Go check out the clubs and instructors,
Have a goodun,John.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

All good advice...

As for the twin, don't get your hopes up. Not for a while anyway. I don't mean to pour water on your fire, but warbirds are usually left for at LEAST the third or fourth plane. And twin-engine planes are usually reserved only for us fliers that are too stupid to listen to reason LOL...

I have owned 2 twins and here is what I can tell you to look forward to...

The first is the most obvious, one engine quitting. Your plane is now being pulled from one side only. This is actually not as bad as it seams, because most twin engine planes are designed with a large Vertical Fin/Rudder. As soon as an engine quits, get down to a lower throttle setting and prepare for an immediate landing. You want to avoid a complete throttle chop because it will help you to avoid having to add power later. Adding power from one side while the plane is moving slowly can be hazardous to the life of your plane!

Something else that is less thought about is just the hassle involved. It seems that the more gizmo's you add to a plane, the more can go wrong with it. Anything like retractable landing gear, split flaps, bomb doors, smoke systems, Etc. add to the equation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these are bad things, In fact I have used them all (and still use a few). It's just that to a beginner, you're going to have your hands full for a while just learning the basics. We can't say for sure when you will be ready for a twin. But you'll know when you are. You just gotta learn to walk before you start to run.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

All of the points above are good points and I agree with buying a 60 size trainer. It lands slower and that tends to be the most difficult thing to do when you start IMO. I would recommend going to a flying club and getting your hands on a buddy box. I would not recommend putting an instructor through teaching all 3 of you to fly at one time. If there are multiple instructors then it may not be a problem. It is rather difficult for an instructor to teach all of you at once simply because the instructor will want to get in some flying time of his/her own also. Not to mention it can be stressful.

I'm glad to see that you are getting your family involved. My wife flies and I am teaching our 10 year old to fly. My 3 year old can't wait, he can already do nearly perfect loops on a buddy box of course. And because my family is involved, I get more planes. YESSSS. The younger the kids are when they start, the better off they are... We have young teens in our club that can fly circles around the more experienced pilot. Only think is that their planes have only one speed.

Lot's of luck and I would recommend that the twin be put on hold for now.
Just my 2 pennies worth

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Thank you for your help so far. A club near me just e-mail me back.I would not do that to a instructor . They need there
time to fly too.
As for the Mosqutio is on hold.
I like the choice of trainers so far!
Should I buy it in a combo or plane first then the upgrade to a better radio?

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Again, here you will get as many answers as there are fliers. Before you get anything, ask the guys in the club which is the preferred brands of radios and engines. It's not much good to have a top-o-the-line radio if no one there can help you with your questions. It also has to be compatable with their Buddy Box system.

This said, you could get a combo to save a few bucks, or, you could get the kit now and start building, then buy the radio and engine as the paycheck permits.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

If your looking at Tower Hobbies I would stay away from the Combo, If your planning to stay in the hobby and it sounds like you are I would get a better radio with at least 6 channels and I know I may get flamed for this but stay away from the Tower engine for the first engine, They have had some quality issues with air leaks and are a little harder to tune, If you have the funds to spare I would suggest the OS 46FX http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXBY45&P=0 but if your a little tighter on funds like most of us I would look at the Thunder Tiger Pro 46 http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...1&I=LXKF97&P=0 both of these engines will last you a long time and be powerful enough to put in a low wing sport plane when your ready to fly one. If your going to get a 60 size I can't make any realistic suggestions, My space is limiting and can't fit much bigger than a 40 size in my car. But just get a good engine that is easier to tune because being new gives you enough o deal with without needing to tune it. The OS engines I have seen and do own all come out of the box factory tuned and need no tuning to get into the air and from the research I have done on the Thunder Tiger they may need a little tuning out of the box but are easy to get tuned and run great, I f you get a less powerful engine like the OS LA series it will run great but won't have much extra power for the next plane and may find yourself buying another engine for the next plane when you eventually retire the trainer.

Good luck
Dauntae

When is cheap not...
 

BC,

I have been flying my LT-40 solo since June and am planning on building a 4* 60 over the winter. The LT-40 is definately a GREAT trainer.

Anyway, I thought I'd post my thoughts on cheap, since you mentioned buying a combo.

I have found that every time I bought something cheap or low end I have quickly outgrown it. A $200 radio is not cheaper than a $500 radio if you have to go buy the $500 job in a year or two (because you are hooked on the hobby and have to have it).

So, I would try to gage how wildly interested you are in the hobby before making any buy choices.

In my case, after a few weeks flying my trainer I was pretty sure I was hooked for life.

If you're on the fence that changes things.

In my case, it is much easier to justify to my wife that I need the "good" radio rather than having to explain that I need ANOTHER radio. :-)

GB

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

BC,

Whether you get a computer radio or not is more a matter of choice and budget.

While a lot of guys point out the multiple model capabilities and mixing functions as reasons for chosing thiese radios over others. These items a not absolutely necessary for flying most sport planes.


Also lets do a little math on which is cheaper for outfitting two planes with radio gear (These prices were on Towers Web Site)

Computer Radio

futaba 6XAS 219.99

Extra Flight Pack 109.99 (LXXJ51)

Cost 329.98


Two non Computer Futaba 6YG

164.99 each

total 329.98


Both cost the same. Computer radios have plenty of great features that make them attractive but they are not neccessary in order to learn.

As far as saving money by buying one and I don't think that its a valid agrument a standard radio will work in 99% of the sport flying applications. Also having two radios of the same brand gives you your own Buddy box.


Anybody looking to save money is in the wrong hobby!!! This stuff is expensive!!!!!

Also you can sell your old gear after you out grow it

Just a thought.

In all honesty a simple 4ch radio will be fine for leaning some of them are 119.00 airtronics vg400

two of those 238.00 that get you through your first two planes no problem.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

get a good 4c radio,that matches your instructors buddy box,as equiment is changed,sell the radio and keep the equiment that came with it,even now I use the 8 super,I still buy the 4c kits and sell the radio and charger,cheaper than buying the components seperately.
Have a goodun,John.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

I also opt for going with the cheap radio. I have radios with all of the bells and whistles and they're great, but for the most part, istill do 90% of my flying with a absic 4 channel radio. Think of it like a car, Do you NEED power windows, ABS breaks, and an OnStar system? No. Are they nice to have? Yes. Are they worth spending the extra money for? That depends on the individual. Would you spend the extra money for them if this is your first car and don't know if you're going to keep driving or not? If your answer is yes, then by all means get the extras. But you certainly don't need them for driving.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Ok ...I see a few agree with 4channel
radio. I did not think I needed the 6 channel right at the start.
Spend the money to get a good 4 channel.Later on just buy buy one when I need it. I see the combo is out.
talk to instructor then buy the plane then the motor then the radio.Just remember to buy Strong enough motor for plane to switch over later on. Ok any for your planes.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

The last part was to say any of you people use battery starts to start your engines.
Thanks BC

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Hi there!

As a newbie myself, from BC, I think I have some usefull infromation for you. Join the local club, in your area it is probably pretty big so chances are you can get some good used stuff like radios, starters, and most importantly advice from them. I joined our local club a few months ago and have been overwhelmed with the amound of support available to new R/C'ers. It's comforting to have someone with 30+ years of experience to double check your work on your airplane, and to help you get it in the air when you are done! Some clubs have swap meets too, there is one in Kamloops on Nov 2nd if you are up for a drive!

If you have to buy anything new, avaid the American web-based dealers. With freight and duties, you will end up paying way more than you have to. www.greathobbies.com is Canadian, and they ship out of Edmonton for us westerners, so you get your stuff quickly. There is also a guy in Nakusp, the shop is called Lester's Hobbies, and beleive it or not his pricing is even better than Great Hobbies! You can get his number out of the paper.

Don't be afraid to buy yourself an ARF trainer like the SIG LT-40. They build pretty easy, and as a Dad, they can be fun to work on with your boys. They are extremley flexible down the road too, once th whole family has learned to fly with it, throw some floats or skis on it!

You can buy a simple radio for now, get whatever your club instructor says, it will probably end up staying with your trainer anyway. When you get into your next plane(s) you will want something that can hold more models and do funkier things.

By the way, nobody ever told me before I got started at this....it's not a hobby, its a sickness!

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Nice another BCer ,So I guess you bought a LT 40 did you buy it new or used? What radio are you running?What motor are you running? why I am asking is because there is a method to my madness you see. Get the right motor and right servos just take them out of the old plane put them in the next plane.Unless you get into something big and need more servos. Is this the right way to go about this David.

And to the rest you flyer's out there Thanks for thoughts on the subject
they are helping.
Sig LT -40 for the plane.
motor....?......OS-FX......Or ....Thunder Tiger
Radio have to wait to talk to an instructor.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

My wife got me an Eagle II kit that a friend of ours had built for his brother-in-law who lost interest in the whole thing!

When I received the plane it was 80% complete. I did what I felt comfortable doing and then enlisted one of the club members to put in the servos and set up the controls with my "assistance".

The Eagle II is a little smaller than an LT-40, but they fly very similar. I got an OS LA .46 with my plane that I'm not thrilled with. It pulls my trainer around the air fine, but sounds like a 20 year old chainsaw with a loose muffler clamp. This noise, I've been led to believe is due to the fact that this entry-level engine has bushings to support the crankshaft rather than ball bearings. As a result of it's design, this type of engine can't turn as fast, or generate as much power as a BB engine - but they are one third cheaper!

At our field guys run all kinds of engines, the the sweetest running 46 that I've seen is the OS FX 46. This is a higher end engine made by the same company as the engine I have now. My buddy who has one on his LT thinks it is an improvement over the Thunder Tiger Pro 46 that he was running. Besides making more power, they are so smoooooth, when a plane with one of these goes by on a slow pass, all you can here is the prop going thup thup thup through the air. My LA goes rattle rattle rattle.

In Canadian pesos, the OS LA 46 is about $100.00, the Thunder Tiger is about $135, and the OS FX is about $160.00. I've actually ordered an FX 46, I'm going to put it on my Eagle, until I get my winter project completed, then put the LA back on for my wife and kids to learn with.

I wouldn't plan on gutting the trainer when you move on to something else...who knows what you will want to move onto and if the equipment will be appropriate, plus your boys are old enough to start learning now too, so they are going to need something to fly with their instructor while you are out burning holes in the sky in your 2nd airplane. My boy is 8, flying the simulator now, will be on the sticks in the spring - plus, the last two times we were at the field (bring a BBQ, make it a family affair) my wife asked the instructor if he would mind showing her how to fly. Once he came to his senses, they went off and burned up a couple of tanks of fuel and had a great time. Your wife may get interested the same way, so you'll need that plane.

Go ahead and get a new LT-40 ARF. They are not too challenging to build (one of my club mates can to a quality job of putting one together in 2 evenings) and fly great. The kit is very complete so you won't find yourself having to abandon the thing in the middle of a night of building because you need some obscure widget. Used ones are rare, and in my experience, if you can find one, you really don't want it. You should be able to pick a new one up for $200.00 or so.

Once you get to the field have a look at what everyone has for a field box, and what they keep in it. You will need fuel ($25.00), a starter ($49.00) a glow driver ($20.00), the box itself ($45.00 or so for a pre-fab, or check out Canadian Tire for options, there are pictures here on RCU for adaptations), a fuel pump ($10 to $25.00) some fuel line, and you should be good to go. Whatever you forget, you will be able to borrow at the field until you get your inventory set up. Get a small toolbox to keep all the goodies together so that whe you go to the field, you just grab your plane, your field box, tool box and go.

When you do buy a radio, if you get a new one, it should come with 4 servos, a receiver (goes in the plane), and batteries for both the radio and the receiver and finally a charger.

Well end of rant, have a ball, I know I am!

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

I am wondering ,are JR radios good?


Thanks
BC Mosquito

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

All of todays radios JR, Airtronics, Hitec, Futaba are good.

When it comes to radio selection its usually personal perference and or what brand your instructor uses.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

when I went out today to check out the costs on everything the the salesperson said he used JR radios on three planes of his and each one crashed ,now that sort of scared me right there.
When you are fling your plane and somebody turns on there radio if it is on the same channel will you have a problem with your plane......crash..

BC.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

only one plane at a time can share the same frequency,reciever gets confussed with two signals at same time,then gets mad and goes crazy. Think it has something to do with female harmones at reciever.I'm a Futaba man,but I don't think one brand is much different than the next brand,two people can't fly the same channel,period.Salesman needs to go back on buddy box with instructor.
Have a goodun,John.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

Ditto on the female hormone thing... (or as I like to say, "She's suffering from Estrogen Poisoning!")

All of the brands listed earlier are fine. One of the main things you want to consider right now is this: How many people are available to train you? How often are they at the field? What brand do they use?

What I'm getting at is this, when you learn to fly, we have a training aid called a "Buddy Box". This, in most cases, is just a cord that plugs into your transmitter, and attaches it to another transmitter (IE, your instructors transmitter). Now, your instructor flies the plane using YOUR transmitter. When the time is right, he flips a switch, and YOU are flying the plane with HIS transmitter. If (when) you get in trouble, he simply lets go of the switch, and he's in control again. But, your two transmitters need to be compatable with each other.

Now I believe that some brands may be compatable with others, but why take a chance? So if there are 10 guys with Futaba and 2 with JR, I would get a Futaba, but if the two guys with JR are the only 2 that are there on a regular basis, then I'd get a JR.

Get my drift?

Next... When buying a radio, make sure that it comes with the "Buddy Box" (aka trainer cord) feature!

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

One of the most common comments about choosing a radio is to check with the local club and get whatever is the most common. This helps to ensure that there will be a radio available for use as a buddy box. To me this is rather assuming advice. Other club members should not be expected to furnish their radios to be used as a buddy box. If the club has a buddy box, then the new member should consider buying a radio to match.

A good radio is going to cost the beginner $150 and up. The whole rig is going to cost #350 or more. He should also be willing to invest in a buddy box. After all, it is for his benefit alone. He could probably pick up a used buddy box or transmitter for about $25. I bought two (2), a Futaba and an Airtronics, for $25 new and $20 used respectively. When I got ready to fly, I had the buddy box and did not have to ask a fellow club member is I could use his radio. A buddy box is very cheap insurance and is well worth the money. When training is complete, there will always be someone new coming in who would be willing to buy it.

Newbie .... want to fly like an eagle
 

BC, as a newcomer myself I have researched and read and feel your pain. Here's what I would do if I had to do it all over again based on the info you provided. Get an ARF trainer (or kit) with a TT pro 46, a 4 channel TX, and an instructor. I think an excellent sport trainer is fine for an adult, but I think kids will do better with an easy flying, forgiving trainer. ARF's are convienent and fast, but I would get a kit soon either way. I'm a best bang for the buck kinda guy which is why I recommended the TT Pro 46. I think it's just that. If it's compatible with your instructor, the Futaba 4 channel skysport is a good value. Upgrade to computer later, or the Hitech Flash 5X is the best bang for the buck entry level computer TX. My guess is if you are frugal AND get quality for your dollar you will spend $400-$500 (american) getting started (in the air). And for your kids and wifes' sake, DO IT! You could spend more or less, but those are realistic numbers. Cheers