Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Being inspired by the LT-40 Pay It Forward thread, this thread will be a build of the Bridi Aircruiser 60 that will be donated to a deserving recipient. Another RCU member (elenasgrumpy) has already offered to donate an engine so all we need now is radio equipment. I expect this to take several months to complete since I am not a fast builder but that gives us plenty of time to find a deserving home and to locate radio equipment. I don't know how to determine who receives the final product but I believe that some of you have already worked on some of those issues. Let me know what you think.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Edygert,
Great!!!!!!!!!!!! I love to see people participate in PIF program. I was thinking about making an offer to Bill (he's the man for all decisions in PIF) to build this kit up, but with my current schedule it would probably have been 6 months before I could get it on the building board. As I said already, Bubbagates is the one that makes the decision on where donated items go so check with him to see if there is anybody on the list right now. If you will PM me your mailing address I'll get you out a sec of PIF graphics for the plane when you get it covered, and I'll also have a little "extra" in there as a small "thank you" for donating you time and effort to the PIF program.

This is what makes PIF so great, people that are kind and caring and giving of themselves to help others get into the hobby. Edygert, thank you again for helping out the PIF.

Ken

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

edygert,
If there is anything you need to finish this plane (i.e. fuel tank, wheels, covering, etc....) please let us know. I'm sure that we all can get enough together to get you everything you need to finish this plane. Also, please don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions with your build.

Ken

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

I have a Hitec Laser 4 transmitter (on channel 47), charger, switch harness, and 600mah nicad battery pack that can go with this. The receiver and servos are in a plane so you'll still need those items. Send me a PM with an address when you're ready and I'll get it to you. Other than charging the battery and verifying it works, the transmitter is unused; I bought the complete radio in June 2003 because it was almost exactly the same price as a flight pack and crystal.

Getting it off the shelf, and into the hands of a new flier, is the best possible use for it.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Thanks for the kinds words Ken and for the graphics. I will PM you tonight. Carrellh, that's great about the radio! Things are already moving along and I am just analyzing the kit now!

First, a description of the kit. This is an original Joe Bridi kit that I purchased on clearance from the LHS. It is designed to be a trainer and sport flyer with a semi-symmetrical airfoil. It looks to me that with an instructor and buddy box, someone could learn to fly the plane as a trainer but the plane could also be a good second plane. In other words, the eventual recipient may get a first and second plane in one package! The plans and instructions are a little yellow from age but still very useable. The plans refer to using a Kraft receiver and Kraft servos. The wood looks to be excellent. Specs:

Wing span: 61 3/4"
Wing area: 720 sq. in.
Length: 51"
Weight (approx.): 5 1/2 lb. (the .60 engine should really pull this plane around!)

There is a lot of stick cutting to be done on this kit so I will really have to follow Ken's advice about measuring twice and cutting once. This is definitely a very different style of building from the laser cut kits I have made in the past. I plan on taking my time to make sure that this is a solid build. The wings look very solid with 2 1/2" dihedral, partial wing sheeting, shear webs, and cap strips on the ribs. The kit has an addendum that says that shorter ailerons should be made if larger engines are used. The original plan shows the ailerons going out the full length of the wing. The addendum has the ailerons being shorter by 2 or 3 inches. I have heard that flutter is caused by the longer ailerons so I will be making shorter ailerons.

I will start the wings first followed by the stabs and finally the fuse. I will be posting pictures of the build as I go along following the general style that Ken has been following in the LT-40 thread but not as much detail. I know how much time Ken has put in to that thread and I am not able to commit quite that much time. I will be using a lot of his suggestions during the build such as using wood glue and taking my time to make sure it is right. I have a digital camera so I will post numerous pictures as I go along. Sometime this week I expect to have the parts sorted, categorized and marked work will commence on the wing. Like Ken, I make sure that family comes first so things do interfere from time to time with building.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

I had built the very similar Bridi Krafty 60, basically the high wing version of the Aircruiser. I would strongly recommend not putting a modern .61 in it. Mine started out to be a trainer for my stepson using an OS 60FP, by modern standards fairly low power and not overly heavy. Even with shifting the RC gear back as far as it would go, it still required a fair bit of tailweight. We flew it 3 times, and it was simply overpowered. Put an OS 46SF on it, took the weight off & it was a much better combo- especially for a new flier. Opened up still did everthing you would want to do.

These kits were designed when the lightweight K&B 61 was the engine...a modern 40-46 is a very good match.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Just to give you a flavor of the instruction book, the wing construction reads like this (the wing is built over the plan, right panel first, then left panel):

Pin the 3/8" x 1/2" bottom spar
Install the ribs making sure they are perpendicular and square to the plans
Install the 1/8" x 1/4" trailing edge
Install the top 3/8" x 1 3/8" sheet trailing edge

etc.

Not quite as much information as what is in Ken's thread! However, thanks to the LT-40 build and other threads here on RCU, at least I know what the instructions are talking about. All measurements come directly from the plans. I love the description of building the left wing panel. Only the right wing panel is on the plan so the instruction booklet says to turn the plan over and rub the area of the wing diagram with a piece of soap to bring out the plan detail.

Should I go to Kinko's and make copies of the plan? I use pins to build so the plan is going to be full of little pins holes when I am done. The plane is mostly sticks and sheeting so buying the wood and building from the plan should be straightforward if I want to build another one.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Low Rider, I was wondering if a .60 size engine might not be a little too large with an estimated weight of about 5 1/2 lbs. My LT-40 flies great with an .46AX and it is about the same weight with wider wing span. Looks like we need a different engine for this plane. Any available?

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

edygert,
You can build directly on the plans if you want, but I prefer to make copies when I build I like to cut the assemblies apart on the plan, but I don't ever cut the original (well, not anymore. Learned that from another wise old builder out there. Thanks Bruce!!!!). Another must have is a plans protector. A lot use wax paper, but I was never happy with it. I use poly-vinyl plastic. Fancy words for the plastic painting drop clothes that you can get in the painting department at Lowe's, Home Depot, Wal-mart, or you local hardware store. Get the 3 or 4 mil poly sheeting. One roll is enough to do 8-12 planes and will last a long time. Glues, paints, epoxy, and such WILL Not stick to it, and it's easy to see through.

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Are there any issues that I need to look out for when making copies of something as large as the plan sheet (such as copies not being exactly 100% the same size)? Is it better to copy sections at a time or to have Kinko's copy the whole thing?

The idea of using poly-vinyl plastic sounds great. I am tired of scraping wax paper off the model.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

I am going to make some changes to the build sequence as I go along based on research I have done here on RCU and elsewhere. For example, instead of building the left and right wing panels independently and then joining them, I am going to build the right panel, prop it up at the proper dihedral angle and then build the left panel connected to it. A full description of the technique is described by Pete Young at http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...less_wings.htm. If it works for polyhedral glider wings, I don't see why it wouldn't work for a simple dihedral. Hopefully this will make for a straighter, stronger wing with a very strong joint between panels.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Ok, Here's the deal. I don't happen to have a .46 laying around, but I do have that OS .60. This isn't a new modern style .61 as Lowrider referred to. I don't know the exact age of the engine, but it is from the same era as the K&B .61. He gave me one those with this OS. I have long since sold the K&B. If this plane is gonna build at 5 1/2 lbs, Lowrider's probably right this engine may be more than we need. We'll see if anyone comes up with a .46 that they can spare, if not you know your still welcome to the .60 I guess they'll learn about throttle management early in their training.:D

Carrellh, I also have an Airtronics receiver & 3 standard size Airtronics servos. Give me a chance to check them out & make sure they are ok. They are about 10 yrs old, but had all of about 2 min flight time when my brother found out you don't just grab a TX & go out & fly. They have been just sitting there in the wreckage ever since. I got the wreckage last week & pulled the radio out of it & tossed the sticks in the trash. The receiver is on Ch. 26, the servos cleaned right up & look new. To my amazement they have the later model style connectors like we use today on them. I'll make sure they're good & let you know. Then all you would need is 1 more servo, & a matching Crystal. Like Ken said let us know if you need any of the little things that don't come with the kit. I still have some misc. building stuff laying around. Fuel tanks, goldenrod, pushrod stock, variuos connectors etc.etc.etc. I may have some new wheels laying around too. So when the time comes, let us know what you need.

If you'd like to pm me later, that would be fine. This build your gonna do is a great thing & I will help anyway I can.


Mark

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Is this a 40 size or 60 size plane?? If it's a 40 size I have an almost new Magnum 40 that I'll ship to you to put on this plane. If it's 60 size then we can use the 60 from Elanasgrumpy.

Ken

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFMD5&P=0


Now this is just a thought. If no-one has a .46 available to donate, we could get this engine for as little as $5 a piece including shipping if we had just 25 ppl willing to participate. $5 never made or broke anybody! Just another option we could think about.

There are obviously cheaper choices as well, I just put this engine up because I know it to be a good one. Great power, reliability, & very easy to tune without requiring an experienced engine guru. If we get close, but come up a little short I would be willing to kick in a little more $$$ if neccessary. Thanks for your participation.


Mark

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

The new kit is available at the following link: http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/aircruiser60.html. The specs for the plane are also in one of my earlier posts in this thread. I think that a .60 size engine is overkill but I don't have any idea about the older .60 engine since I have only been in the hobby for about two years. I know that my .46AX works great for my LT-40 which is at least 5 1/2 lbs. I have no experience with the Magnum .40.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

I just checked out Bridi's reccommendations for this bird. .40 to .60 2-stroke. .60 to .90 4-stroke.


Mark

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Ok,I just went to the Bridi Airplanes website. If this kit is the Aircruiser 60 then you're going to want to put a 60 on it. Even though it says that a 40 will fly it, that's going to make it WAY underpowered. The 60 that Elanasgrumpy has should do nicely for it.

Hope this helps

Ken

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

The Hitec transmitter and Airtronics receiver are not compatible. One is positive shift, the other is negative. The servos will work.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

RC KEN wrote: RC Ken...that information you refer to hasn't been changed since dirt. Since when is a 5 1/2 pound trainer WAY underpowered with a 40-46? I have flown the plane with a 40 it is correct for the model. A modern 60 2 stroke is not the way to go on a 5 lb trainer, it's like putting a hemi in a Neon, you could do it but why...

Lets look at some comparison data of popular trainers:
SIG LT-40
Wingspan 70", 900 sq in
Weight 5.5-6 lbs
Recommended engine size .30-.40 2 stroke

Goldberg Eagle 2
Wingspan 63", 715 sq in
Weight 5.5-5.5 lbs
Recommended engine size .29-.45 2 stroke

Bridi Aircruiser
Wing span: 61 3/4"
Wing area: 720 sq. in.
Length: 51"
Weight (approx.): 5 1/2 lb

They can call it whatever they like, but it's just another 40 size trainer. If this were a knockaround plane for someone that can fly I wouldn't care what anyone did...but for a
beginner this is a 40 size model.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

The Bridi airplanes site says that anything from a .40 to a .60 can be used so the .40 is on the low side and the .60 is on the high side. I only have experience with the .46FX/AX engines so I don't know how much of a power difference there is between those and the Magnum .40. I think that if the .40 is close to the same power as the .46FX that it would work great on the Aircruiser. Anyone have experience and can compare these engines?

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

Carrellh, Sorry bout the reciever not an option[&o] but as I said this stuff is all at least 10 yrs old anyway, I'd really rather see newer more dependable equipment go into a beginners plane so he/she doesn't start off under the 8-ball. I'm sure by the time you get that far in the build, & we have a worthy recipient someone will step up, & it will come together.

As far as the engine goes, if you decide your more comfortable with a .46, that's fine too & I am still more than willing to chip in towards the price of a new reliable one. Like I said earlier, $ 5 a piece for about 25 of us wouldn't hurt a bit. We all waste more than that every day on fast food or something! So when the time comes just let me know what you need from me & I'm in like "Johnny-on-the-spot"!;)


Mark

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

I want to thank everyone who has offered to chip in so far. That was fast! I am sure that it will all come together by the time I get done building.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

edygert, My apalogies, I got confused there for a moment & forgot that it was you donating the plane & doing the build & carrellh that had a transmitter to kick in. Again I'm sorry bout that & will be more than willing to help out with whatever you need when the time comes.[sm=drowning.gif]


Mark

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

And so it begins! I opened and sorted the kits contents and checked them against the inventory in the instruction book. All pieces are present and accounted for except the rear portion of the horizontal stab (about 1/4" x 3" x 24") is missing. I bought the kit at the LHS and they are usually good about fixing this sort of thing so I will pick up another piece of balsa this weekend when I go there for supplies. Some of the measurements in the inventory list are off by 1/8" of an inch or so, some longer and some shorter. I will have to wait and see what the impact of this is. The wing seems to be about half of the wood in the kit. I bagged the pieces that would fit and just laid the wing parts and fuselage parts in separate piles. All small pieces are in baggies. The hardware is pretty minimal and the nose gear is quite rusty so I will be replacing it. The engine mount in the kit appears to be for a .60 size engine so it will probably need to be replaced as well. The main landing gear appears to be 3/32" thick aluminum which I assume to be sufficient for a 5 1/2 lb. plane.

On another note, I had a minor tragedy this morning. My Stevens Aeromodel Lil Squirt got trashed[&o]. I just finished the plane last night and maidened it this morning. I had several nice flights in perfect weather (no wind and temps in the high 60's), got it all trimmed out, ran out two batteries and landed. My friend was flying a GWS Formosa, came in to land, overshot, and smashed into my Lil Squirt. It didn't stand a chance. You can see that one wing is demolished. What you can't see is that the fuselage and tail are also in pretty bad shape. He gave me $25 to buy a new kit so I guess I will be buying one of those at the LHS this weekend too. It would take longer to fix the plane than to just build a new one and it wouldn't fly as well. Weight is very important for a plane this small. The plane weighed just under 3 oz. AUW (I built it a little heavy) and it flew very smooth and slow. Very graceful at less than half throttle and quite perky at 3/4 or full throttle.

Don't worry though, the Aircruiser comes first. It has already taken over my workboard so it will get finished first.

RE: Pay It Forward Aircruiser 60 Build
 

I finally made it to Kinko's and copied the plan. I also made a mirror image copy of the right wing panel drawing so that I could build over it for the left wing panel. I never knew this before but Kinko's has an oversized scanner and printer that can copy any length paper with a maximum width of 36". The same machine can also make mirror image copies.

As I mentioned before, the rear portion of the horizontal stab was missing. The LHS did indeed replace the missing wood. I have been reading and re-reading the instructions and examining the plan and the parts that make up the wing. As I did so, a number of questions/concerns came up. Some of them I solved myself but I need some input on the others. I think that you'll be able to tell just how much of a novice I am by the questions I ask.

First, the two trailing edge pieces are about 1/2" too short. I have a balsa stripper and some 1/8" sheet stock that I can use to make replacements.

Second, I won't be able to build the left wing panel connected to the right wing panel as I originally planned because my building board is too small. The wing is over 61" but my board is only 48". I could probably figure something out but the hassle doesn't seem to be worth it. I will be building the panels separately and joining them.

Third is the order of building the wing. The ribs, spars, shear webs, cap strips, and leading and trailing edges and sheeting all seem to make sense. However, the center sheeting is put on before the wing panels are joined. The root rib of each panel is glued to an angled center rib that sets the dihedral. It seems like it would be better to join the wings first and then add the center sheeting so that clamps can be used during the joining process. It also seems like it would be easier to make any adjustments so that the wings are joined straight and not swept forward or back if the center sheeting is not in the way. I'm sure that many wings have been put together the way the instructions say but wouldn't the wing joint between the root ribs and the center rib be stronger if it could be clamped when joined? What do all of you recommend? I am planning on using 30-minute epoxy to join the wing panels.

Fourth, the manual says that the leading edge can be held in place with blocks while the glue is drying. I have been trying to visualize this and just can't seem to figure out how this would work. The front of each rib meets the center of the leading edge with the leading edge having a 1/8" overhang above and below the rib. How can this be held in place while the glue dries?

Fifth, I was examining the spars and found slight bends in them. I am going to spray them with window cleaner and then pin them to the board over the plan and weighted down on top while they dry to straighten them out. Does anyone have a better way to do this?

On the subject of tools, I found an excellent straight-edge at the local art store (Pearl). It is 42" and is made of 3/8" thick aluminum. It is also a center-finding ruler. One side of the straightedge has an arrow in the middle of the edge with numbers increasing to each side. To find the center of anything, just make sure the same reading is on both sides of the arrow and the arrow then points to the center.

I also found a Wil-Kro razor plane on eBay that comes highly recommended by Paul Johnson who created the amazing Airfield Models web site (http://airfieldmodels.com/index.htm). If you haven't already seen the site and you are building a kit, you have to read his site.

I will take some pictures of the wing assembly as I build. I am now cutting the shear webs and marking the centers of the leading edge and the front of each rib to make sure they line up right. I plan on using the shear webs to lay out the ribs the same way that RCKen did in his LT-40 build.

I know that I am going really slow but I want to make sure I understand what to do at each step before making mistakes. Hopefully documenting some of my thought processes here will help others as well. I do have a confession to make. I bought a new Lil Squirt on Saturday, finished it Sunday, and flew it yesterday morning! Nice to have another one.