RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Bruce the Brute, I like it. I'll call FedEx & se what we can do about getting new name tags for your coveralls.[X(]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

I quite agree that the plane flies very well, but the AFS only works well in a narrow band of lighting conditions, & only if the airframe & AFS are carefully (& correctly) set up. If the set-up is not quite right & the lighting conditions aren't to the AFS' liking, it is a hinderance rather than a helper. I have wasted a lot of my time & students' flying time getting that thing right. It isn't worth the bother.

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Ok everybody. Pull up a chair, Ken is pulling his soapbox out again!!!! :D:D

Here's my take on it. And please remember that this is my take on it, only my opinion. The "extras" on the Nexstar are what I consider "gadgets". Great Planes has put them on there for one thing and one thing only, to sell airplanes. Think about it for a second. If you are standing in a store and you're looking at 3 or 4 boxes with planes in them and you're trying to decide which one to buy, what are you going to be more likely to walk out of the store with? The Nexstar because it's got all of these things that "make it easier" to learn to fly. As somebody that doesn't know how to fly you don't know any better, and you want it to be as easy as it can be right? They are a sales gimmick. Now don't get me wrong, they do in fact have an affect on the way the plane does fly. They do make it "easier" to fly, in fact they make it too easy to fly. Look at the AFS first. This is a co-pilot that assists you by leveling the plane for you. This is the worst of the 3 gadgets (AFS, speed brakes, and wing droops) because with this you never learn to recover and level the plane yourself. This one is really bad IMHO because you become reliant on the AFS and never learn the skills you need to move on to other planes. The other 2 gadgets are ok to leave on, but I prefer not to if I have a choice. The speed brakes do slow the plane down. Why do you need to slow down a trainer? A trainer is designed to fly slow anyway and I don't see why you need to slow down anymore. Same thing goes for the wing droops. They are there to prevent "tip stalls", as well as other things. Tip stalls are rare on a trainer anyway (see the flying slow I mentioned above). Both of these can be taken off and the student learns to fly "just the plane" and not the gadgets. Think about it for a second, pilots have been learning on "plain ole" trainers for decades. Heck, the older trainers didn't even have ailerons. If you were to ask my opinion on the best trainer out there judged by flying characteristics I would probably tell you the Sig LT-40 (although there are others that are very very close to the Sig). It doesn't have all the gadgets on it and the student learns to just fly the plane. As I said above, if you learn to rely on the gadgets your pilot skills are less than if you learn without them.

As a side note (and I'm sure I'll stir up some controversy here) I say the same thing about the Hanger 9 P-51 PTS. Yes, it is more mild than a full bore P-51 warbird, but it isn't as mild as some of the trainers that have been around for awhile. The P-51 PTS is a sales gimmick, nothing more (once again, this is only my opinion). Hanger 9 has figured out how to capitalize on new pilots wishes. I can't even begin to count how many times I've seen new pilots show up at the field with a P-51 warbird to learn on. Heck, it's a great looking airplane. I love the looks of it too. All Hanger 9 did was to find a way to sell a "trainer" to those people drooling over that warbird. But it's not a trainer for everybody. It does fly fast, and it does have a few bad characteristics. I think that those pilots that are "a natural" will do fine on the PTS, but once again it's not for everybody. There are those that are going to need to stay on a more traditional trainer (and I feel that this is the majority of new pilots out there) to learn to fly, and then maybe move up to the PTS as their second plane.

So to sum up what I think of the subject, both the Nexstar's gadgets and the P-51 PTS's gadgets are sales gimmicks. They are there to sell planes, period. Yes they do change the flight characteristics of those planes, some will say they change for the better and others will say they change for the worse. But these are only 2 of the many trainers out there, and all of the other trainers out there don't have these gimmicks and there are plenty of people that learn to fly just fine on them. In closing let me throw this last thought out there. Think of the gadgets on the Nexstar as a "cheat sheet" you make up for a test. If you go in and take the test with the cheat sheet you will pass the test, but you won't know the subject. But if you actually do the homework during the semester and study for the test then you are more likely to come away from that test with a solid understanding of the subject. Same goes for the "gadgets" on the Nexstar. With them you can fly, but your skills aren't going to be as good as they can be. Without them your pilot skills will be solid and you can rest assured that you are ready for more advanced planes.

Ok, that's my 2¢ worth

Ken

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

AFS = great paper-weight! They otta trash it all together & sell the NexStar for $299!

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Lol, I take it the NexStar isn't one of your favorites Ken.[sm=cool.gif]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

elenasgrumpy,
Actually, as just an airplane I think it's a pretty good trainer. It's got some good flight characteristics that I like about it and I think that students will do great on it as long as they take all the gadgets off of it. Now as a product being sold, no I don't like it. As said above, most instructors will take that stuff off it before they teach the student. If that is the case then why in the world would a student want to pay about $100 extra when they aren't going to be using those things??? If the student finds an instructor before they buy the plane it's no problem because the instructor will advise the student on what to buy. But what happens most of the time is that the student buys the plane and then finds an instructor. And then the instructor takes those things off, and usually the student is hurt because here is this guy taking all this "stuff" off of his beautiful plane. Looking at it in that light, no I don't like the plane. Like I said, all that stuff is just a sales gimmick.

But as far as the plane flies, I think it's really a pretty good trainer.

Ken

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Wow Ken -- you are wearing me down with sheer weight of words [:o]

I respect your opinion -- but in part, I don't agree with it. I also don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest with you -- there is too much respect to do that. ;)

However, IMO the four best trainers out there are the Nexstar, the LT-40, the Hobbico Superstar & the Hobbico Avistar -- not necessarily in that order -- it depends on the individual student(s).

The Nexstar covers a much wider range of natural abilities than the other three, & that is its great value. I don't think that it limits a student's ability in any way (AFS excepted), it progressively enhances that ability if used as intended.

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

I like the pts for one reason...

Its low wing, and its a tail dragger...

The guys i know that learned on it say its easy and that the high-wing trikes are harder to fly...

I dont think that one really is harder than the other, i think its what you learn on first that sets you up...

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Brit,
I would never get into an argument over it with anybody. I was just expressing my opinion in the matter. You may already know this about me, but if not I'll say it here. I don't get into arguments over things like this. All that happens from arguments like this is people's feelings get hurt. I've said my piece and I'll leave it that. I know that others have their own opinions and I will ALWAYS respect the fact that they have differing opinions on a subject. I grew up in the country and we just didn't argue over stuff like this. :D Plus, friendships are too important to me to jeopardize them over an argument over a silly subject.

As I said above, I do think that the Nexstar is a good flying trainer (without the gadgets).

Ken

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Ken, quit holding back like this. Speak your mind. :D

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

:D:D

Ken

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

As much fun as this is, i gotta go to the P.O., then go fly my gadgets.[sm=lol.gif][sm=bananahead.gif][sm=surprised.gif]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Brute :)

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Ok you Brutes, here's the deal. I went to the P.O. to send off Ken's goodies, then straight to the airfield. This was the first time the guys I was trying to train with have seen me in about 3 months. I know they all thought I had given up never to be seen again. I broke out the NexStar & got her ready for flight. They were all looking kinda shocked & thinking what the heck is he doing? The last time they saw me I was all over the place with a buddy box. I left all the gadgets in place for a warm up flight. This in itself left them all in disbelief as I announced loudly, "coming out". I flew it around a bit then "landing left to right" & set her down nice & easy. By now they realize I've been cheating behind their backs by myself when no ones there.[8D] Next I decided to heed Ken's advice looking for britbrat's full potential NexStar. No guts=no glory, so off came the brakes & droops, ( AFS[:'(] has been off since 1st flight). So back to the air I go & proceeded to fly the snot out of that NexStar! Believe it or not. The rolls instantly became cleaner looking much less ugly than 2 days ago. I found that with a touch of down elevator at the inverted position of the roll I could keep it nice & straight through out the rolls, Nice loops & pretty clean touch & goes. The I brought around on final & greased it! Only this time with stunned witnesses:D

I flew her at full throttle most of the time & britbrat you were right, she did the giddy-up real well.;)

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Yeeehawwwww!!!!![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif] [8D]

What was bigger -- their eyeballs, or your smile? :D

Nice job. Don't get overconfident. ;)


Inverted next (up high)[X(]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Congrats on messin' with their minds and yours too I imagine.

britbrat is right, this isn't a time to get over confident. Keep that altitude beneath you. The low stuff is for takeoff and landing for now. OK, maybe a low flyby if the wind isn't too choppy.:D Good luck on this next dose of treatments and stick with the simulator.

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Yes every body has their opinion and mine is most people did not learn to ride a bike without training wheels on it first. Once that person was able to ride the bike with the training wheels then they were removed and the person had to learn to ride the bike with out them. Once the training wheels were removed they did not crash their bikes near as much, if any, as if they would have if they started off trying to learn without them in the first place.
So, of course, I think the same applies here to flying the nexstar with all the training aids on it for the first flights, besides the AFS. Since the person who bought the nexstar is more than likely this will be his first flight I would leave them on because you can remove them at any time and yes the brakes do slow the plane down so that means that "gadget" must not be a "gadget" if it works. Why not start off slow and then grow into it.

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

as a bike person, I have to point out that the current thought is training wheels r a hinderance. They don't really teach u how to ride a bike, which is about balance. Currently, it's recommended to remove the cranks, and put the seat real low, so kid can push with them then coast and learn to balance. Once they got that, cranks go back on.
-John

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

britbrat, bruce, Trust me no over confidence here don't forget I have 5 certified kills! [:@] But I did do a short inverted pass (nowhere near the ground) and I was as shocked at my success as they were. Can't seem to wipe the silly grin off my face still! Been giggling like a school girl all day.[X(]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Hmmm! No brute there I guess. :D:D


As for learning, I had no training wheels on my bike and am a self taught pilot @30 years ago. Don't recommend it though, as it was an expensive process at first. Come to think of it, crashes are still expensive.[:@]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

I too crashed my way to success a loooong time ago.

I still do occasionally -- almost always from doing something that I know better than to do -- but what the hell -- lets do it anyway. :) My last prang was a couple of weeks ago while ski flying -- I figured that the nice soft snow would let me get away with an inverted rudder drag in the snow [8D] -- nice hole in the snow. [:@]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

I knew Bruce wasn't gonna leave the school girl analagy alone.[:@]

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

just curious, ken stated that the nexstar was made by great planes. does great planes make planes for hobbico?

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

Apparently both Tower & Great Planes are divisions of Hobbico. Just read that from the Hobbico homepage under "about Hobbico".

RE: question for the NexStar Guru
 

good to know that now i can add hobbico and tower to my list of arf not to buy hehe.