Hello=)
 

Hi, my name is Robert and I am considering starting rc airplanes. I am looking into electric and I have experience with rc cars. I like building and I have no clue what plane to start with. I don't want an ARF. I like 51 stangs:D I would like a kit, but get a remote that I can train with a professional. I am open to any suggestions and I am trying to figure out a place to start.

Thanks, Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

Welcome to RC planes. The best airframe is a medium (sometimes called .40 size) trainer. personally, I prefer glow engines over electric, so I tend to lead beginners toward .40 sized trainers. there is a PT-40 kit that is nice. I know you said you did NOT want an ARF, but there is a good p-51 mustang trainer. It looks like a mustang, but has a PTS feature (progressive trainer system...) whereby the plane has leading edge clear plastic lift enhancers and drag plates to keep the speed manageable. These are removed after you are a better flyer.

I'd avoid the $99 electric beginner planes if you can afford to. I find they are difficult to fly in the wind and not all that fun to fly anyway. If your budget can afford something more like $300, the planes are so much better. Many of the low-cost transmitters can still be used with an instructor who may have a more expensive transmitter. You need to look closely at each transmitter to see if it has a "trainer" or "buddy box" feature. These are compatible only within a manufacturer, so a JR transmitter can be used with another JR transmitter. A Futaba can be used with a different Futaba.

Visit a local flying field, and see what brand the flyers there are using. JR and Futaba are most popluar here, for example.

RE: Hello=)
 

O.k. I forgot to say my budget. I have around 500$ to invest in anything. I was looking at getting a P-51 Mustang Kit for 89$ this one: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGAL0&P=0

I am in another country and this hobby is not very popular here so there really isn't any way for me to go to the air field[:o] Electric would probably be better for me because fuel is hard to get here and very expensive. I was thinking I would get a kit and build it up with e-trons and get that system where the trained pilot can assist me. I am coming back to the U.S. soon for a couple of months, and this is the time when the trainer remote should come in handy just incase your wondering;) For the money I am spending I want to avoid ARF's at all costs and glow power would be kinda complicated, so electric seems the best way to go for me. What you guys tell me can change my opinion so again open up and don't hold back with your opinion. How loud is glow power anyways?


Stick it to the man, Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

Robert, while I don't particularly want to live in Durham, NC (your location as shown her), I don't think I'd call it another country! ;) Anyway, when you're coming back send me a PM. There are several good clubs in the Durham area.

Moving on to your desire to learn to fly. First, give up on the idea of a P-51 for a while. With the exception of the already mentioned "trainer" P-51, none are good for beginners. Since you are in a foreign country (I'm curious which one?) with no appropriate place to fly, glow planes are probably out too. In general they are larger, faster, louder, and require much more space. In addition, they require significantly more support equipment. Until you get back to the US permanantly, electrics are probably your best choice. However, that opens up another question, who will teach you to fly. While you will read reports from some people that they learned on their own, most who try by themselves give up in frustration. The typical experience is buy plane, assemble it, try to fly, but crash, take it home, repair it (perhaps buying some replacement parts, try to fly, but crash, ... After a varying number of rounds, most give up or see the light and seek help. Occasionally one will make it truely on their own.

An alternative for people who don't have access to an instructor is to learn with a simulator. This gives you a way to try out flying without the risk of broken equipment. Normally I suggest that someone who will be learning with an instructor leave the simulator alone until after they start learning (so they don't develop bad habits) and then use the simulator to reinforce what they've learned. However, you're in a different situation.

If you do decide to try flying on your own, you would really be better off choosing an inexpensive, but durable foam plane. This will be more able to survive the crashes that you WILL have. Repairs will be eaiser than a traditional kit built, or ARF, balsa plane. Choose one that has replacement parts readily available. The GWS Slow Stick is one that comes to mind, it's inexpensive, durable, easily repaired, and flies nice and slow.

RE: Hello=)
 

What Chuck said is very good advice. I wanted to comment on the kit you are looking at. While Hanger 9 had put out a trainer that looks like a P-51, what you are looking at is a far cry from that and definitely IS NOT a plane to learn to fly on. If you are dead set on the P-51 then take another hard look at the Hanger 9 P-51. While it hasn't been done yet (not to my knowledge at least), converting this plane to electric should be fairly easily. You might consider something along those lines. Otherwise you'll want to go with a more "traditional" trainer to learn on.

Ken

RE: Hello=)
 

Thanks Piper Chuck:D;) I will let you know when I am coming back. I would like to be taught by a trained pilot. I am currently in the Czech Republic until I finish High School. I go to a computer high:D So should I look at ARF trainers?



Thanks, Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

As one who has had the opportunity to live in another country for a while, I say learn everything you can, meet as many people as you can, and enjoy. It's a great experience. Do let me know when you come back. Yes, I suggest looking at ARF trainers. Now that we know where you are, perhaps someone will post with some info on local R/C activities for you.

RE: Hello=)
 

You said a mouthful there Chuck. I had the chance to spend 3 years in Italy (I had the Army as my travel agent :D ) and I loved it. I left Italy in 92 but I still have Italian friends that I correspond with.

Ken

RE: Hello=)
 

Mine was about 2.5 years in China, the company footed the bill. I still have friends in China, and ended up with in-laws there too. ;)

RE: Hello=)
 

I was just looking through electrics just before I read this thread,
Here is an example of an electric trainer
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXVU19&P=0

RE: Hello=)
 

Thanks guys, its pretty interesting over here. O.K. Lets say If I where to get the plane that missle man suggested. Could someone please make a complete list of all the electronics and things I need to complete this project? I am talking whole like including glue and everything;) The E-trons are pretty different from RC cars.


Thanks, Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

I have a question about kits in general. I dont want to have to buy fifty planes before I get the one I want so if I will be assisted by a proffesional who is hooked up to my controller while I learn whats the difference? I know trainers fly slower, but can't throttle trim be adjusted on other faster models? I do not want to buy two planes. What about intermedaite planes? What is the difference between begginer, intermediate, and advanced planes except speed? I was looking at acrobat ones and scale ones too. I like the Corsair. I just don't want to have to buy more than one plane before I get the one I want. Vat do you say guy?


Thanks, Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

The diferences can be quite profound between a trainer and an advanced model, particularly a real warbird (as opposed to the 'stang trainer). It isn't just speed, it includes varying degrees of built-in instability, sudden violent responses to your mistakes, twitchy control responses & inability to recover from some departures from controlled flight. That is why trainers are the way they are & that is why students are strongly advised to start with a trainer.

There is another reason as well. If you are using the services & good graces of an instructor, your greatly protracted learning curve, plus the the very real stress that keeping you & your 'Stang, Corsair, etc, in one piece, is a great imposition on the instructor -- it can extend to abuse of his time and patience. There is probably going to be an incident where even a really good instructor won't be able to save you from a mistake (stalling at low altitude in final turn comes to mind) & your bird will be history -- & it won't be his fault, but he will almost certainly feel bad about it.

While it's your money, starting with a warbird or a hot sport plane will very greatly put your investment at risk, greatly extend your learning time & greatly impose on the instructor.

RE: Hello=)
 

shredder111,
As an instructor let me jump in here and tell you what the difference is. The big difference between trainers and the planes you are talking about is that the trainer is designed to fly slower, be very stable, more rugged, and have self righting capabilities.

Flying slower. When you are learning to fly the speed of the plane makes a huge difference, the slower a plane flies the longer you will have to think about and prepare to do something. For instance, if I tell my student to fly a pattern I will tell them to fly a rectangle and make turns at certain points. With a fast flying plane you may have 2-3 seconds before you get to a turn, but with the trainer you could have 5-10 seconds. 3-8 less seconds may not sound like a lot to somebody who hasn't flown, but when you are on the controls it can seem like an eternity. I still fly my trainer even after almost 10 years of flying and I like to make a little joke. When you are training your trainer will seem like it's flying SO FAST, but after you learn and you fly the trainer you wonder how a plane can FLY SO SLOW!!!!

Stability. With the intermediate planes you talk about most of them are low or middle wing planes while trainers are always high wing planes. There is a simple reason why they are like this. With a low wing plane the mass of the plane is balance above the object holding the plane in the air (the wing), natural forces want to tip that weight over this making the plane a little less stable. But with a trainer being a high wing the mass of the plane is hanging below the wing, this makes it easier and more stable.

More rugged. Good trainers are designed to take a little extra "abuse" that happens when you are learning.

Self righting. Most more advanced planes like you are referring to are more maneuverable because they go where you point them. The dihedral and high wing design of a trainer makes it self righting. If you use the aileron and make a turn you can release the stick the dihedral will cause the wing to come back to level flight. More advanced planes will require you to bring the wing back to level flight by applying left aileron.

And lastly, frustration. Both yours and the instructors. With a more advanced plane the instructor is going to be "taking over" the plane more often he might with a trainer. Trust me, after a little bit of this you as the student are going to get frustrated by this because you "think" you can handle it. The same for the instructor, he is going to have to constantly keep taking control of the plane. While it may not seem like it to you, it takes a lot of concentration on the part of the instructor when he has a student on the buddy box. When I am teaching a student I will "fly" the sticks right along with the student, meaning I will move the sticks reacting to what the plane is doing. By doing this I always "know" exactly what to do to save the plane if I have to take control of it. By getting a faster more maneuverable plane you are going to increase the work and stress load on the instructor. In addition to that, it's probably going to take you a lot longer to learn to fly on a more advanced plane than it would on the trainer.

Now as an instructor I simply won't teach people that show up with planes other than a trainer. Why? Several reasons. First of all they are harder to train than most. How do I know that? Well, first of all they think they know better than everybody else and don't need a trainer to learn. This shows me that they aren't going to listen to what I tell them when they are in the air. Next is the stress and work load on the instructor. Like I said above, it takes a lot of effort on my part to teach somebody. Why in the world would I want to increase the workload and stress on myself just because a student "thinks" he knows more than everybody else?

I know that this may have sounded a bit harsh and I'm sorry if it came across like that. But trust me, you'll be doing yourself a huge favor by getting a trainer to learn on. Learning to fly on a plane other than a trainer usually means that you'll wind up with a more expensive pile of kindling after the crash.

That's my 2¢ worth

Ken

RE: Hello=)
 

Wow[X(]! Great advice, thanks. I see what you mean. BOO-HOO:( I just dont like how trainers look, I wish they made a trainer that had the style of some other planes I see. All trainers look the same to me. I will look around........ I guess:D. Well i'm open for any more suggestions;)


Thanks, Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

O.k. I found some decent looking trainers, yay!:D Now one important question, Does the size of the plane matter? I have looked at 50-80 inch wingspans. I am looking at both glow power and electric. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...............................




Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

The bigger the plane the easier it is to not only see in the sky but in some respects the easier it is to fly as well.
You said you don't like the looks of a trainer but you can always sell it after you are done with it (if you can keep it in fair shape)
You said you will be flying with an instructor, ask his opinion on what to get.
Personaly I am looking into a first low wing taildragger and after a suggestion from my instructor I am having a close look at the Hanger 9, 90 size Funtana (I plugged the numbers into a calculator and came up with less than 17 oz. wing loading)
Wing loading will give you an idea of how slow you can fly without stalling, my Kadet Senior has just over 12 oz./sq.ft. and can fly really slow when I want it to.

RE: Hello=)
 

Piper chuck, what do you have to say on this one? Are you a trainer? Could you train me? That would be sweet!:D

RE: Hello=)
 

Hey guys, I like this one a lot! Would this one work as a trainer? Here is the link: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDJT0&P=0



Shredder111[>:]

RE: Hello=)
 

Sorry, I'm absolutely NOT a "trainer". However, I am one of the club instructors! :D Sorry for that, I couldn't resist. Most people use the term trainer for the plane, not the person. ;)

Don't worry too much about the looks of the trainer. It's designed to be easy to fly. If it's not too pretty, that's ok, think of it as being utilitarian. I don't know anything about the House Of Balsa kit you pointed to, but it doesn't look like a trainer.

Anyway, it looks like you've got your heart set on building a kit. Are you going to do this while you're away, or when you get home? If you go the kit route, you'll need to buy lots of tools and it will actually end up more expensive than an ARF.

As an alternative, I suggest you consider an ARF. For example, here's an electric one that I haven't seen in person, but I've heard some good things about:
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../hcaa2051.html
And a 4 channel version:
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products.../hcaa2052.html

There should be lots of other choices for electric trainers, but since I fly mostly glow, I don't know all the choices. The electric forums would be a good place to look.

I'm fairly flexible with what I think will work as a trainer. Most people suggest a 40 size ARF trainer. I think these are fine, but I actually prefer flying smaller planes. If you're interested in glow powered trainer kits, and want something a little smaller, take a look at the thread about the Sig Kadet LT-25. Sig has always made nice kits. If you want a kit in the .45 size, look at some of the other Kadet choices.

For ARF trainers, there are many choices. The Tower Trainer is a good value, but there are lots of other choices too.

So, to sum it up, can you start narrowing down the electric versus glow decision and what size? When you eventually get home, lots of instructors are available to help, including me.

PS. the plane in the picture is what I learned with, a Sig Scamp. Very non-traditional, but it flew great. They no longer make them, but I recently acquired a new kit. When I finish a few other projects I'll build it.

RE: Hello=)
 

Hi Robert and welcome!

I understand your situation, and I think someone mentioned it before, but I think you would be the perfect candidate for the Hangar 9 P-51 PTS...

[link=http://www.hangar-9.com/PTS/Default.aspx]http://www.hangar-9.com/PTS/Default.aspx[/link]

There seems to be a general consensus in RCU that this isn't the very best trainer of the bunch, but considering you like the warbirds, I'd say it is the way to go! Of course, if you're stuck with electric, you will need something else. Its just that a trainer like the P51 includes everything you need to get started (and, IMHO, thats a GOOD thing when you are new).

Good luck!!
-Mike

RE: Hello=)
 

Just this morning one of our club trainers, (dont think its official but he has brought several people in to the club and trained them to fly), well he said that "if you bought the mustang trainer from hangar 9 , and practiced with the simulator that came with it and left all the equipment on it to slow it down in the air....you would crash" personally I think it is geared toward the male of the species that think..."it wont happen to me"...of which there are many..Rog

RE: Hello=)
 

Perhaps, but I'm not convinced. :)

RE: Hello=)
 

I'm with ya on this one. While Hanger 9 has found a way to capitalize on the desires of people that want to start with a P-51 (haven't we all thought that?), it's not a trainer for everybody. While some will be able to train with it, others will need to use it as an "advanced trainer" or 2nd plane. They've done good to tame a P-51 down into a trainer, not everybody is going to be able to learn on it.

Just my 2¢ worth

Ken

RE: Hello=)
 

I understand guys. Thanks for the effort Mike, but I wouldn't want to risk flying with it. Though its a "trainer", I think its more for slightly experienced beginners than 1st timers. I seriously thought it over and grit my teeth together. I will go with a trainer. Anyways I really dont want a ARF. Building planes is the whole experience. Dont worry on tools piper chuck:D There I'm covered. My bro is into car stuff/DYI projects so he has a garage full of tools. Plus................... one time I bought a P-51 kit from HOB (I was a lot younger about 10-12) and built it just fine only later I discovered that you need lots of money to finish it with either an eray of electric or nitro power so I sold it on ebay:) The funny part is I actually made some extra cash. The kit was from House of Balsa and at the time was about 30-40 bucks and I sold it for around 60. Hehe, those silly auctions:D Anyways, I will compile a list of my top 3 electric and top 3 glow power picks and I want your guys input on which one is the best. If a little zing with no side affects can be forgiven please tell me so;) I will write in a little bit, have to go get some shod eye[sm=sleeping.gif]



Thanks, Shredder111[>:]