RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Keep us updated on future flights. BTW, 4 strokes throw out much less oil. You'll want one eventually.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

YEAH! Ain't it great?

The best things in life are dirty and messy. ;-)

You lose so much with electrics.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

I am convinced that the Alpha 60 will be the best trainer for me to learn to fly with, but I really wanted to spend this winter on a simulator . Its my understanding that the simulator that comes with the Alpha isn't very good? What do you think? Will the Alpha simulator help me learn ? I really dont have the money to purchase something else, I'm hoping tha the Alpha will help.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

The Alpha simulator is absolutely awful. A much better choice is FMS, which is a free simulator that you can download. You just need to get a cable to connect your transmitter. To find out more info about FMS, just do a google search or check in the simulator forum on RCU.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Regardless of what simulator you may use, I totally recommend it.

If you are a total newbi such as myself there is so much you'll learn on the simulator that will help you when you are actually flying that otherwise you'd have to experiment on the actual plane with the risk of crashing if you make a mistake. On the long run, I feel the simulator pays for itself because it will save you a few crashes for sure.

I agree that the Alpha simulator is almost totally useless, but is better then nothing and comes free.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Anyone ever converted the Alpha 60 to a tail-dragger? I had a large tree leap out and grab my Alpha, so I built a second one. I'm using a Saito 82 in it - nice combination. Anyway, having nothing better to do, I pulled the landing gear bracing and blind nuts out of the smooshed up Alpha and glued it into the new one, just aft of the bulkhead that sits forward of the battery compartment. That puts the wheels directly under the tip of the leading edge of the wing, which in theory is exactly where they oughta be. Problem is I don't have balls enough to actually pull the nose gear, slap on a tail wheel and give it a try. Has anyone else??

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

imora99

For the price of that EP conversion you can buy a lot of cleaner and paper towels, not to mention another complete Alpha 60 RTF. That's a lot of money to spend just to have a plane you don't have to wipe off at the end of the day. You need to see my planes - I add additional castor oil to the fuel and it leaves a nice thick coating of fuel residue all over the plane. Just part of the hobby.

Hogflyer

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

jajaja...to each his own I guess...

you know, I remember when I was into racing cars, for me nothing would beat the smell of Castor racing oil...and the smell of gasoline and grease and all that came with it....but now I just like the cleanness of electric, not to mention how few things I have to take with me to the field.

However, just so I don't get beaten up to much by the glow lovers guys, I am actually keeping the gas powered as well. I am courious to do proper comparissons in all respect, not just how much stain is in one over the other. I didn't plan it this way, the first plane I got was an RTF that came with the glow engine. But now I think it will be interesting to see how much the Alpha can "give" on each option.

As far as the price, man!...this became expensive so long ago that I rather not think about the prices anymore, just to have fun. After all we all deserve it...right?

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Anyone have an opinion on using a Saito 82 on this plane? I am looking for a trainer for my son and want to use a Saito that I have not in use.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

I used a little locktite on mine and no more problems with the prop coming loose

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

what do you guys think of putting a 75 ax in the alpa 60 would it be too much for the airframe?

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

The airframe will stand up to the 75 if the operator is somewhat careful of the position of the left stick. The same power that can help you get out of a situation in a hurry can also get you into one at an even greater speed. I would imagine you would be able to train at 1/4 to 1/3 throttle, probably 1/2 throttle to take off. I would advise caution, but the airframe will handle it. I have tortured my Alpha's, they last pretty well. My oldest one is 5 or 6 years old, and still gets flown a lot, especially when the wind makes flying my nicer planes more "iffy". I converted one to a taildragger. It's more of a sport plane than trainer, kind of a cross between a 4star and trainer..

Good luck.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

but if you got comfortable flying and your left thumb got happy and you came over wide open in a low pass would the airframe be able to handle the speed?

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Had a little incident with my Alpha 60 and found something that other Alpha 60 pilots should be aware of. I went out Sunday for some flight testing after fixing the aileron torque rods (they where not glued in at the factory adding to a flutter problem I'm chasing), and got one good flight in (dang flutter was still there too, but that's another issue). When I started the take-off roll on the second flight, just as I started to pull up elevator, the nose gear collapsed under it. This was the take-off run for the seventh flight, it has all of 16 landings with almost all as nose high as possible on the mains, and no landings or abuse to the nose gear.

Upon examination it appears the nose wheel bracket gave way because of one simple fact - its too small for this size and weight of plane. It's so small I think its suited for a .21 sized plane. I've received some correspondence from another Alpha 60 owner who has had the same issue with his and he concluded the same thing, especially considering this an 8 pound plane that under normal training will see more than its fair share of abuse and hard landings on the nose gear. My choices right now are install an after market nose gear suitable for a .60 sized plane, or convert to a tail dragger.

This is a design flaw I found out about the hard way and wanted to pass on. If you have one of these planes, keep tabs on the NLG bracket to make sure you don't have to deal with it after the fact.

Hogflyer

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Hogflyer i just came up from the basement working on the alpha 60 i just got the stab on and layed out all the nose gear parts ready for hopefully tomorrow afternoon then came up here and read your post wow! we must have ESPN ! so what size nose gear do you recommend i dont want to convert to a tail dragger. Would you do anything different on the build besides that and what do you think about running the .75 ax........... will the frame handle the high speeds this engine can achieve ?

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

I use a Saito 82 in an Alpha 60. It works quite well, although you'll have to re-route the throttle linkage.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Joco1,

I think the .75 is overkill – it flies well on a .61 – it is a trainer, and if you want more aerobatic performance out of it then you should consider something like the Goldberg Tiger 60 (unless you fly at high altitudes) for the .75. For the .75 I’d stay with a pitch no more than 5”. I fly an Evolution .61 on mine, and right now I’m using an Evolution 12 X 6 glass nylon prop. I fly at ½ throttle and it’s more than fast enough. When I get students back on it I’ll probably slow down some more, or switch to a 12 X 5 or 13 X 5 prop. If you do intent to run the .75, then put triangular stock on both sides of the firewall for reinforcement. I’m not sure what type of speeds you’re looking at with the .75, but I’d definitely epoxy the empennage in place and add triangular stock on either side of the tail just to be safe. For flight training with a 5” or 6” pitch prop I never find a need to go above ½ throttle unless its for take-off or a balked landing.

For my replacement NLG I have to see what the LHS has in stock. I’d like a Fults, but a Dubro will work. Also I prefer the straight gear so I can adjust the length to suite the plane and not get stuck with the nose either too low or too high which could happen with a bend gear (bent meaning the wire is bent 90 deg. to form the axle).

I’ve been looking at what I need to do to convert to a taildragger, but for right now it’s more work than I want to put into it. I still have to remove my empennage and epoxy it back on and add triangular along the tail. I found my tail moves ¼” either side of center and there are wrinkles in the Ultracote right where the attach rod runs into the tail. This makes me wonder if the tail flapping back and forth is the flutter I’ve been hearing.



Hogflyer

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

what about dual nose gear on the alpha? and how and where do you apply the triangular stock?

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Which place for the triangular stock - tail or firewall?

For the NLG I picked up a Dubro unit at the LHS since he didn't stock the Fults NLG (which is is the dual unit), and I hope to get it installed before the weekend. I'll try to get some pictures as do the nose gear install and tail reinforcement.

Hogflyer

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

would like your opinion on both tail and nose for the triangular stock.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Now that I've been working on the NLG issue I had a good chance to see what it would need for triangular stock on the nose. Due to the size of the engine and mounts there is a lack of room to put some triangular stock on the outside of the firewall, but there is room on the inside. I've been able to get my hand up to the firewall with out much problem - its a tight fit getting through the bulkhead at the wing leading edge, but after that it's not too bad. It'll take some work and fitting, but you should be able to put triangular stock on both sides of the firewall, and on the top and bottom. You won't be able to run it all the way edge to edge because of the throttle line and NLG steering, but any stock you can get in there will help. You need to use 30 minute epoxy when you put the stock in for max strength. Also make sure you fill the gap between the bottom of the firewall and the fuselage bottom with epoxy for additional strength. Just take your time and fit everything as tightly as possible.

Since my plane was the RTF, here's the procedure I used to remove the engine to get access for the new NLG brackets. I picked up Dubro Cat. No. 153 Shock Absorbing Steerable Nose Gear - the complete assembly version along with 5/32" X 1-1/4" axles and 5/32" wheel collars.

* Remove the fuel tank
* Remove the muffler
* Remove the fuel line between the needle valve and carb, then the nipple on the needle valve.
* Remove the hold down bolts going through the engine and engine mount on the needle valve side.
* Mark the location of the throttle push rod at the servo, loosen the retainer on the servo arm so the throttle push rod can be removed.
* Remove the engine mount from the firewall with the engine attached to it, and allow the throttle pushrod slide out of its guide tube.
* Remove the stock NLG mount (or broken one in my case).

At this point I reinserted a factory into each factory installed blind nut and, using a small hammer, knocked the blind nut out. Next I drilled out the holes slightly to open the holes for the new Dubro blind nuts that come with the NLG to fit the firewall ( didn't pay attention to the size bit I used - you'll have to put a drill up to the blind nut to see what size is required for it to fit into the firewall and allow the teeth to bit into the wood). You may not have to do this - you may be able to reuse your factory hardware, or could try the Dubro screws to see if they fit. I personally feel the blind nuts that came with the plane are too thin walled which is one reason two of the factory screws pulled out - the Dubro hardware is much better quality.

To insert the new blind nuts I used a threaded rod to pull the nuts onto the firewall. This allowed me to screw the nuts onto the rod in the radio compartment where I had room to work, then pull the blind nut into the firewall to seat it. After all 4 blind nuts where seated in the firewall I used the Dubro brackets and screws to pull the new blind nuts tight into the firewall and used my hand to make sure the screws didn't push the blind nuts out. When installing the brackets I put the steering tiller between them to make sure it wouldn't bind. This where I left off for the night.

Tomorrow I'll remove the screws one at a time, loctite and reinsert permanently. I found the factory NLG seemed to fit the Dubro mount with very little slop, so I'll try and reuse that before I start to cut the new NLG. Yours may or may not fit - only way to find out is to try it.

The difference in the size and quality of the factory H9 bracket and the Dubro is substantial. You'll also have to cut the two plastic mold rails between the brackets as their spacing is just a bit too far apart to fit the factory holes, but width wise it fits.

When I start on the tail I'll get some pictures as I go so you'll understand what I'm doing to brace it with triangular stock.

Hogflyer

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

thanks hogflyer i will print this and follow step bystep on the work bench! thanks again

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

joco1,

Here's where things stand with my Alpha:

I finished installing the NLG, and engine - that's all ready to fly. The attached picture shows the difference between the Dubro mount blocks (white) and the factory Hangar 9 mount block (black). I was able to reuse the factory NLG but had to grind a small flat below the factory ground flat so I could cant the tiller arm enough to prevent it from hitting the firewall and stopping the plane from turning left on the ground.

To fix the tail I marked the areas of the empenage where I need to remove the covering to epoxy it in place. I didn't mark the covering where the triangular blocks could go - want to see how rigid it will be before I take that step.

After removing the empenage and covering where I intend to glue it all together, I epoxied the tail to the stab. I used the factory wing nuts (coated with loctite) to draw the tail down on the stab, and used a machinist square and clamps to square the two together. When this cures, I epoxied the the assembly to the fuselage using the factory supplied cap screws with loctite and also used clamps to make sure it had good contact all the way around. The wing was bolted down to make sure the tail was parallel to the wing - it was close enough for government work. I let this sit overnight and removed the clamps this morning. There was a night and day difference in the rigidity of the tail - no more side to side slop.

Since the tail was secured quite well I decided to test fly it before adding the triangular stock. It seemed to fly good, but I still an not sure if either there is still something fluttering at high speed or I'm getting a resonance out of the engine. When I hear that buzzing that sounds like flutter and close the throttle the noise immediately goes away. Another possibility may be the cheeks are setting up some sort of resonance and the fuselage, with all the lightening holes cut into it, is amplifying the sound - it stops immediately when the throttle is closed, and there is some sort of resonance when at full throttle and low airspeeds. There is no issue with the control authority under any flight conditions. I was able to coax a true double snap roll out of it with 3/4 throttle, but as soon as I let off it went into a huge spiral.

Power wise the Evolution .61 is more than enough power. I was shooting touch-n-go's with a 14 mph 90 deg. cross wind onto an asphalt runway and found that 1/2 throttle was ample for take-off's. Full throttle is not necessary as the speed is too high for a trainer like this, and it gives me 300' of vertical right from take-off. I was flying at training speed at 1/3 throttle, so I'm going to try a 13 X 5 prop and see if this works better.[img][/img] With the 12 X 6 is will prop hang for a bit, but there is not enough control authority to hover.

So at this point I'm going to just fly the plane and see how it does.

Hogflyer

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2118831/tm.htm

Here is where I converted one to a taildragger. The landing gear mod is easier than what I did to the wing. I still fly it, it's one of my favorites.

RE: Alpha 60 RTF
 

Hi guys i just bought an alpha 60 from a garage sale. i haven't ever flown a 4 channel before and there are not any flying fields near where i live. i know it says not to fly it unless u have experience but i just couldnt resist and it is not nearly as scary as they make it sound EXCEPT the landings that was just crazy i already flew it a couple times with no problems, i practiced a lot on my laptop first. i was just wondering how long a tank of fuel will last. i really dont want to run out of gas while i am flying it. also it came with a copilot already installed and it works great. i was wondering if i try rolls with the copilot on if anything bad would happen i tried once but it got really squirrely and i brought it back down. if anyone has some tips for me i would greatly appreciate it. i only paid 200$ for everything, fuel, glow plug starter, electric starter, and all the manuals i just couldnt pass it up i noticed that u guys said urs had a 3 blade prop mine is a 2 blade with an evo engine and it does not fly slow lol.