From Trainer to Stik
 

Hi all,

I am new to this game. I have a .40 size trainer, a Chinese made Lan Yu which seems to be a copy of the Hanger-9 alpha 40, and have been flying it for the past month. I have about 20 successful solo flights on the plane, by that I mean take off, basic figure eights and landings, without crashing.
I have just finished building my second model which is a Great Planes Big Stik .40 and I have a couple of questions:

1. How steep is the learning curve between these two models? I realize the Big Stik has a symmetrical airfoil and much less dihedral on the wing than my trainer and I am not sure at what point I should attempt to fly it. I am burning to get it in the air but am very nervous about destroying it!

2. The hobby shop where I purchased the Stik suggested I buy an OS .55 motor for the plane which I did. They said it fits into the bolt pattern for a .40 size model (which it does) and is light enough. I have a nagging suspicion that it is too powerful for this plane which has a suggested motor size of .40-.46. Will I be able to fly it with this motor?

P.S. I did learn to fly with an instructor, wouldn't have been able to do so without him, and he would be on hand when I decide to try the Stik.

Thanks,
Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

TZflyer,
I would think that as long as you have your instructor there, it should not be a problem. The stik is more of a go where you point it airplane, but it also has some gentle flight characteristics, such as landing speeds. Besides, remember, you don't have to run it wide open all the time. That 55 AX is a heck of a motor, you will be impressed. Enjoy!

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Thanks rcluver,

I am just itching to give it a go!

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Your gonna wanna throw that trainer in the trash after flying that stick. A Big stick .60 was my second plane after my trainer and its awesome. Flies so nice and easy its almost foulproof. And I think you engine in perfect. I have a .90 super tiger in my .60 stick and love it. I do recommend having an experienced pilot take it on its maiden flight though,just to get in trimmed right and check for its other flying charactoristics. I still have my trainer take my planes up first just to make sure. Your gonna love that plane,just dont crash it! If you do its only going to be because you did something dumb,not because its hard to fly. It'll actually be must easier and mroe forgiving than your trainer. FLY IT!!

....and then make a post about how it was and if you like it or not. I'd like to see what you think.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Ray,

I moved up to the Ugly Stick from my trainer in July. You are gonna love it! You know you are ready to move up when you are able to grease your landings on your trainer. Everyone is right, it goes where you point it. It doesn't come back to a neutral flight when you let go of the sticks. Also, I had the controls set too high when I maiden my stick. Do yourself a favor and make sure the control settings are set up low. You will enjoy flying the stick. You will be able to cruise around the wind so much easier. Landings are hotter than you will be used to. But not a big deal, it floats in , just not quite as much as a flat bottom trainer.

Have fun with the stick. You will not want to fly that flat bottom trainer after flying this bird.

Frank

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Ray,
I moved up tp the .40 Ultra Stick for my 3rd plane. I loved it. In fact I liked the way it flew so much that I got the Ultra Stick Light 1.20 soon after. That flew even nicer with a G23 gasser on it.
I agree with everyone here. The stick is a go where you point it plane. If it is setup right, you can do some amazingly quick axial rolls, and it flies upside down just as well as right side up. You'll get there soon enough. Just have your instructor check it out on its maiden flight. It can be a handful trimming it out with those large ailerons.
The main thing is have FUN!!!
You'll like it!

Bob

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Thanks for the positive input everyone.

I just landed my trainer in a tree and dinged it up pretty bad. My first big crash - not good for the confidence. A strong cross wind came up as I was coming in and I just didn't have the experience to keep it on line. That should teach me not to fly at 1 pm on a hot summer day in Africa!
Guess that's made my mind up for me. I am going to fly the Stik on Thursday after my instructor sets the trims and then I will post up to let you know how it went.

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

My second plane was a Stik. Set it up for the low rates and have at it. I found mine easier to land than the trainer and it had no faults . . . though you have to fly it every bit of the way. That one was lost to a mid-air (* sob *).

I went two seasons flying year-round and weekly through the summer - probably 150 flights - before I switched from my trainer and after "borrowing" a few sportier models to get a feel for them. 20 is still too early to switch to a Stik unless you're on a buddy box or have a fast instructor who can bail you out. Mine have all been tail-draggers; probably a trike would be a bit easier to take-off with.

I always expect to have a Stik style model in my hanger (just assembled a Goldberg Hot Stik and will maiden her this weekend - basically a Stik with more control surfaces. Like the Ultra-Stiks). The Kangke SK-50 is just a Stik with a bit of streamlining and would be a good choice also. Sometimes you want to do and try things that a klunky but spunky little workhorse will handle and shrug off.

THE plane for float and ski flying. They make excellent test beds for trying different engines and control mixes.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Thanks Charlie,

My Stik has the trike landing gear.
I am really unhappy with my chinese built trainer, it was really cheap and the cheap quality shows. The fuselage is skew, the landing gear very flimsy and I already have had a control horn snap and an aileron hinge break. Most of the covering has peeled off and needed to be glued back on. I dont think I want to try and repair the plane, its just not worth it. So I need to decide whether to continue my training on the stik or to purchase another, better quality trainer.
After todays crash I am undecided.
If I were to get another trainer should I go for the Hangar 9 alpha 40? Try with the Stik which I already own? Or is there something better out there.

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

RCKen has put together the definitive trainer list at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm

I have flown, built and/or buddied Global RCM 40 Trainers, Sig Kadets (various sizes: LT-40s, Senioritas & Mk IIs), Hobbico Superstar (& Select). If you're building I would say the Sig Kadet Mk II. If you're buying the RCM 40 Trainer (with a Thunder Tiger Pro-46 engine).

I have heard and seen good things about the Hobbico Avistar as a "better flying" trainer. No first hand experience. My RCM 40 did better rolls and steadier inverted than most.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

i had a hobbico superstar and i just loved it! it would pull some nice little maneuvers, matter of fact, i have a h9 cessna with a symmetrical airfoil and it won't do the maneuvers that my superstar would no way! the hobbico is a good plane even as a second plane, if i had it all to do over i would definitely stick with the superstar as it is a pretty decent trainer as well as a wonderful second plane considering the aerobatics i had it doing! oh and it will fly inverted all day despite the dihedral!

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

I would go ahead and fly the Stik. As suggested, keep the control throws low for a while. I help my brother and he felt that his Big Stik 60 was an 'animal' at the low rate setting so we dialed it back a little bit and that made it much easier for him to handle. He's on a buddy box and I have high rates available. As he learns to handle the plane we plan to increase his throws a little at a time.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

I had a G.P. Big Stik 40 with an OS 70-II swinging a 13 x 8 prop and that had the best low speed handling of any model I have ever flown. I had flaperons set so I could also raise them as spoilers and I could spot land that with a 5 ft roll out.

THE ADMIRAL hated the markings and thought it looked "evil". ;-)

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

I'm another pilot who followed a similar path. I trained on a Nexstar and then flew both an Easy Sport 40 (basically a stik with a canopy stuck to the wing) and a Thunder Tiger Tiger Stik .40 once I solo'd.

The biggest difference I found between my trainer and my Easy Sport/Tiger Stik was the elevator authority. Stiks have a lot more elevator control than trainers do; so much so that I had a hard time not putting my Easy Sport into an outside loop when I was first learning to fly inverted.

Your Big Stik will fly better in windy conditions than your trainer did, but will slow down and land as gently as any trainer. It's the perfect choice for a second plane and you should have a lot of fun with it.

As for the quality of your Chinese trainer, well, first trainers are kind of meant to be accidentally crashed into stuff anyway. I think you might be able to find a Thunder Tiger Pegasus, Tiger Trainer, or Easy Trainer to replace your crashed airframe. Thunder Tiger makes high quality ARFs with good hardware, and they enjoy good worldwide distribution as well. A World Models Skyraider Mach I would be a good quality trainer at a fair price, as well.

Good luck with the Big Stik, I'm looking forward to reading about your first flights with your new toy. Remember to take it easy on the throttle for a while! That .55 AX will pull your Big Stik around so fast at full throttle that it will whistle a bit moving through the air.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

My Midwest Sweet Stik was my uhh 3rd or 4th plane.. I can't remember what came first.. the Stik or the Telemaster..
I've had it for 20 years, recently did a complete rehab, converted it to tail dragger plus a few mods and recovered it in Fabric.... It's still a blast to fly.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

TZflyer,take those trainers........out to the garage......leave them there......and take you stick to the field. I can tell you right now,at your skill level,if you were to fly your trainer 20 flights,then fly your stick 20 flights,you'll have many more crashes flying your trainer.

Heres a short story,lol.....A couple weeks ago,I decided to go buy a bunch of servos and a receiver and put my PT-40 trainer back in the air just because I hadnt flown in for a couple months and I wanted to see how easy it was to fly since I've gotten used to flying my other planes quite well. Figured it would just be a fun,easy,relaxing time.....heck,anyone can fly a dumb trainer right? I will say it was slightly breezy that day,but not bad at all. The first flight I BARELY landed it going diagnal accross the runway. The second flight I cartwheeled it about 4 times accross the ground flipping it right over my instructors bench in the pits! Thank god he wasnt there that day,or I'd of taken out every plane he'd brought that day!


.....my trainer sits in the corner of my garage since after ripping our all its electronics for another plane,lol.

....and I havent crashed another plane since! Well,except for a couple bumps and bruises on my new mustang,but it has issues,lol.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Oh,and fly it with the tricycle gear for now. You can switch it over to a tail dragger later if you want,but you'll probly be happy with it the way it is. When you'll want a tail dragger,you'll likely be ready for an upgraded model anyway.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

TZ,

Fly the stick. Keep the control rates low at first as mentioned earlier. Mine flew much like a trainer, except it did not right itself. If you put it in a bank, it stayed there until you righted it yourself.
As for landings, and ease of flight, my son, 12 years old at the time, learned to fly on it.
http://www.rfmac.com/rc/P9120003.JPG
He was soon nailing landings better than I could... [:@]

Mine was a tail dragger. The trike gear tend to handle better on the ground, but in the air the plane doesn't know the difference.
He soon moved up to my Ultra Stick 1.20.
http://www.rfmac.com/rc/images/PA280001.JPG
http://www.rfmac.com/rc/images/PA280003.JPG
He was flying it so I could take a picture...

I was really nervous when I made the transition from trainer to Stick. It turned out that I felt silly being so nervouse, because it flew much better. The controls were more responsive, and if a gust came up that changed the attitude of the plane, I was able to right it easier than I could my trainer.

Go have fun. Isn't that what this sport is all about?

Bob

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

I think this should tell you something. With only 20 solo flights on your trainer I doubt you are really ready to move up. Before you move up you should be able to wring out that trainer. I'm talking consecutive loops, rolls, unusual attitude recovery, fly it inverted, be able to land it right in front of your self regardless of the winds. A lot of people move up from their trainer too soon and don't realize how much they can learn from their trainer. I'd recommend either rebuilding or replacing your trainer if it has too much damage and fly it. That stick with a .55 on it will be very fast and you'll be behind it before you know it. After you have the experience, and with an instructor for the first couple of flights, you'll love the stick.

sscherin - Your Sweet Stick looks nice. I've had a few Midwest Sweet Stiks and I think they are the best flying of the .40 size Stiks, All these later copies just don't seem to fly as well. If I have the time this winter I just may have to build another one.

Hogflyer

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Well, I am going to mow the lawn on the runway - I live on a farm and we have a small airstrip here for the fire fighting planes.
My instructor will be able to join me tomorrow and I will let him take the Stik up nice and high and then hand the controls to me to see how she handles before I attempt anything like take off or landing.
I will post up as soon as she has been in the air.
I am also going to try and fix the trainer, I wont feel so bad if I ding her again.
Thanks for all the help.

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

HogFlyer.. Thanks.. It is a great flying plane.. I made a few mods when I rebuilt it this summer.. You might notice that the taper on the ailerons is reversed. they are now 1" wider then stock the the middle of the wing.

2nd mod was a bigger rudder with counter balance.. 3rd was a larger elevator with counter balance. On full throws it'll snap out with just full elevator. It rolls right on it's axis, tight spins upright and inverted.. Great inverted and upright flat spins with easy recovery.
Knife edge has some wicked roll coupling but it can be mixed out.. No pitch coupling and it's got enough rudder that it'll pull up on a KE. I still have the CG forward a bit. It should get better when I move it back to the recommended location..
I also setup Flaperons.. It'll slow down to a crawl with the flaps out and it's still rock solid.. It's been a trike landing gear up until last year.. The only reason for the change was to get some weight off the nose and loose a little drag.
Not necessary unless you want a speed demon. Honestly there are better planes if you feel the need for speed. With that big fat wing it's not breaking any speed records.

I forgot to mention the first time I took the Stik out back in the 80's.. I'd set up the ailerons for every bit of throw I could get. Now at the time all I'd flown was a Fledgling and a Falcon 56.. The Stik was a whole new beast..

It barely survived the first flight.. It rolled so darn quick and stuck where you left it plus with a .45 FSR (the same one still on it) it was a screamer.
I had it up for about 2 wild minutes barley under control when I managed to get it lined up on the runway somehow.. I forced it down hot, chopped the throttle about 2 seconds before the wheels hit, clipped the JZ Zinger prop hard enough to shred it.
Still it landed and was ready to go again that day.. We took half the throw out and it was a nice tame beasty.

In my opinion (whatever that is worth) the Stick makes a good 3rd plane or a 2nd if you want to push it but be careful.
A great 2nd is a semi profile shoulder wing like a Falcon III or an Avistar. You could use the .55 but don't use full throttle till you get a good handle on it..
When you think you got it nailed move the CG back and see what it'll do. You could do this with the Stik too but keep the throws tame at first and get comfortable before kicking it up a notch.

I've had an Avistar and they are a great flying plane.. Lots of fun with the CG moved back and a hot motor up front.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

TZ.....you get that stick in the air yet?

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

No, Jester, it's been raining cats and dogs here for the last few day.
I did spend the time repairing the trainer, she has now got more epoxy on than anything else but everything seems to check out.
I am going into the bush this weekend, my sons birthday, and I will be back on Monday. If the weather plays along the Stik should maiden early next week.
I am really excited but I think I will let my instructor take her up high and then get a feel for how she handles before trying to land or take off.
I must say, I am really impressed with the fit and finish of the Great Planes ARF kit, worlds apart from my cheap trainer where every part had to be modified and forced to fit.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Yeah,you'll certainly want to let you trainer give it is maiden flight,then hand you the controls once he gets it up the second time. Once he hands you control,you'll be amazed at how much of a piece of cake it is to fly. Landing with any unfamiliar plane are always hairy,but once you make your first landing or two,you'll also be amazed at how easy it will seem compared to your trainer. Its just going to take a couple of flights to wear off some the nerves......and thats the hardest part of flying an unfamilar plane!

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Okay, I chickened out.

Had my stik completely set up and ready to fly and then started thinking about what she would look like all crumpled up on the runway.
Guess I have answered my own question on whether or not I am ready.
My stik goes back on the wall in my hangar and I have purchased a Phoenix Domino Trainer to fly with this weekend.
Good flying everyone.

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

You chose wisely. If you're too nervous and have bad preminitions you're likely to do something that will make it a self-fulfilling prophesy. We do this for fun, remember. ;-)

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Thanks Charlie,

another month or two on the trainer and I will take my red baby off the wall and into the air.
It is fun but I have only just started and already recognize symptoms of obsession.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Hey Ray, It's all about having fun. The stik is an easy and very confidence building plane for a beginer or a inexperianced pilot. I have several stik and still have my nexstar that I bought several years ago, by far the best trainer out there. I opted for the arf and put in a .61 supertigre and bought a futaba 6exas radio right off the bat with all the goodies. Anyway take the chance with the stik you'll have a blast with that thing. I still have my first stik, lots of patches(from stupid things)but still flies like the first day I took it up. All I can say is get it up and have fun you won't regret it. Happy flying......Rick

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Oh yeah out of all of my 30+ planes the sticks are the best, by far....

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

TZflyer
The Stick is a classic for a lot of good reasons and one is versitility. On low rates, and balanced as the guys have described, its been used many times as a primary trainer. They are "groovy" that is they go where you point em . Also be careful with your landings they WON"T float all the way in like a trainer because of the wing shape differences. Use a click or two of power for a second before it settles to the ground or keep the airspeed slightly faster than the trainer on landing. Do a few fly bys up a little high and stall it to see how it reacts before landing other wise fly it like you stole it! If you do toast it and you probably will its the easiest bird to fix or scratch build a new one. I think it is hands down the best first scratch build and best second plane. good luck:)

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Well, I unfortunately sold my stik before getting it up in the air.
A friend of mine wanted one badly and offered me what I paid for it and I foolishly decided to help him out.
My thinking at the time was that he could have it while I still learned on my trainer and I could order another one.
Starting to regret the decision!!!
Anyway, just finished putting together a Hobbico Avistar and hope to have her up as soon as I have the landings on my first trainer greased.
Thanks for all the encouragement.

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Ok then......Now go out and buy another one!!!! I believe your last one was a .40 sized one. This time buy a .60 sized one,and throw an OS .75 or a Super tiger .90(carefull with tuning it) sized engine in it. After flying those other planes,you'll be glad to have something bigger,plus it will most likely fly even easier and better then the .40 you had. Plus its bigger which makes it cooler! :D

I've said it before and I'll say it again....my Big Stick .60 with a Super Tiger .90(dead sticked me a couple times,but runs awesome now) is BY FAR my best,easiest to fly,and funnest plane I own so far. Its kinda like this....This morning I'm thinking about going flying if it warms up and the only plane I'm gonna take with or even bothered to charg last night is the big stick........not sure why...just because.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Get a Stick & you will never go back.
------- 1986 ---------------------- 2007-----

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Ray, with a good 46 up front, an Avistar is great airplane. Not familiar with your other trainer, but if it has a flat bottom wing, you`ll find the Avistar to be more capable. You`ll no doubt move on to the Stik and/or some other more " advanced" planes, but I`ll hazard a guess that you`ll keep your Avistar for those "just want to relax and fly" days. I`ve had mine for almost four years ( it was my training and solo bird ), and although I fly other planes, I still enjoy he Avistar.

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

DOG!
You sold your stick? Well you can't have to many sticks around so it'll be cool;). Now since it is spring at your end of the world you have an excuse to get a Hanger 9 Ultra Stick ARF. They are super with flaps and you can do a search on it on RCU for some recomemded mods. Or scratch build one its an easy build![8D]

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

I thought I might catch stick for selling my stik!
I am looking for a scratch build project and was considering the SIG 4* but it may just turn out to be the stik if the build is as easy as you say (this will be my first scratch build).
I have an OS .46 ax on my avistar and am really looking forward to flying her. Its raining today so it will just have to wait a few days. My previous trainer was a LanYu (chinese import) flat bottom wing aircraft and from what I have read on here the avistar and the stik are going to be much better to fly.
Jester, my next plane will definitely be a .60!

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Hello Everyone:

At the end of last year, I took great interest in this thread.

Where I fly, there is always some wind and about 25% of the time it's too windy to fly. I read on RCU that stick type planes are less effected by wind because of the small fuselage cross section.

My trainer plane, a Hobbico Superstar powered by an OS 50sx would be blown around a lot by the wind. Because it would end up in a different place to where I had pointed it, I would feel that I didn't have control of it. Also, when flying into the wind it would balloon up in a big way.

I already had a SuperTiger G90 so I bought a GP Big Stik 60 to try as a second plane which I hoped would handle the wind a little better.

I was itching to try the new plane but didn't quite have the courage.

The matter was decided for me a couple of weeks ago. I had a "mid-air" with my trainer. My Superstar went into the ground hard and was destroyed.

I'm still on the instructor and buddy box system. Because of family commitments, I wasn't able to fly my Big Stik 60 until yesterday.

I like it. My instructor observed "It flies beautifully" and "It's easier to fly than your trainer".

On low rates, the Big Stik 60 is easy to fly and easy to see in the air.

A big thank you to Jester241 for pointing me in this direction.

I look forward to many happy flights with my Stik. Now I'm thinking of getting a spare, just in case ......

Bye, Ian

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Congratulations on flying your Stik Ian.
I flew my Avistar until I felt confident enough to fly my Stik and I love it.
I find the Stik easier to land than my trainer even though she comes in a bit faster and she does handle the wind very well, better than most everything at our field. While the others watch the wind sock nervously us Stik pilots are up in the air!
I have now set my radio to dual rates and on high rates she can be quite a handful but fun.
Its also easy to repair. I broke the tail off during a dead stick and she was up and running a few days later.
Good flying,

Ray

RE: From Trainer to Stik
 

Hi Ray

Can you remember how much you paid for your 40 stick and where you got it from?

Cheers
Lee