Saito 180 starter?
 

My Saito 180 won't turn over with my 12v field box battery. Everytime I want to start it I have to hook my Hobbico torqmaster 12v starter up to my car battery via jumper cables. Do I need a new starter or a new field box battery or should I just continue to use jumper cables to my car? Can this be fixed somehow?

Thanks for any suggestions.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL405

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I have the 1.80 and it is mounted sideways on my plane so if your engine is mounted differently this method might not work for you. Also, I use a chicken stick with this method.

Here's my method:

1) Close the carb and plug your muffler with your fingers.
2) Turn the engine over until fuel comes out of the breather line. You want fuel to come out of the breather line. (It might be flooding, but I don't get any sort of hydraulic lock with this method)
3) Take away your finger(s) from the muffler and open up your carb. You should hear a wet suction sound. That is when you know you have primed the engine correctly. Again, you might be flooding, but you shouldn't get any sort of lock.
4) Turn the prop so it is on its compression and attach your glow starter.
5) Flip the prop against compression with a chicken stick and your engine should start on the first flip. If not, just flip a couple of more times and it will start.

I use this method everytime I start my engine and it starts on the very first flip of the prop.

Just my 2 cents!

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I have a cordless starter which will turn a DA 50 all day long.

It's called a Heli-Max. I don't know who makes it, but it cost me only $35 a year or so ago. it requires two 6-cell nicd packs @ 20$ a piece, but it's the best starter available.

Hope you can find it. If not, I will sell you mine with batts....I have moved to gas, permanently.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Thanks Mr67stang, I didn't even consider the stick method. I'm so used to using electric starters. Thanks.

Ferocious Frankie, that helps even more, thanks. Sometimes this engine can be hard to start (at least for a rookie like me).:D When you're refering to breather line are you talking about the line going into the muffler?

Compression refers to turning the prop clockwise till it wants to stop, correct?

Sorry, for more annoying rookie questions. Thanks for the help!

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

All google it and see what happens. Electric would be choice agexpert. Thanks!

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

It's probably the Heli-Max MiniMax starter http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXLMT5&P=7

I just ordered one last week, should be here on Monday. It uses a gear reduction so it should have excellent torque. I burned up my direct drive tower starter trying to get my heli started. It's amazing how little torque some of the starters actually have. You can grab the cone by hand it keep it from turning with very little effort. The Heli-Max starter looks to be one of the best starters on the market for the price. I'm surprised there is so little information on it in the forums. I'll report back next week and let you know how it works.

Cheers,
Dave

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Dude. I have never touched my Saitos with a starter.. EVER.. Just flip backwards after priming..

LATER


180 220 and all.. I have never tried a multiple head engine.. Wish I had one to play with.. HINT to my Bro in LAW!!

LATER AGAIN!!

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I have a 1.80 mounted inverted with a Cline Reg. There is no way to prime it so it can be back flipped. I close the throttle all the way with the throttle cut on the radio. This can also be done by pulling the trim all the way down. the starter will spin the motor with the throttle closed. There is no air to compress. Then once it is spinning open the throttle to the idle position. The started will be able to keep spinning it. Mine will fire right off. This takes an extra set of hands but there is always someone around anyway.

david

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

It is not the line going to the muffler, but the line coming out of the back of the engine. It's the fuel line behind the crankcase.

Compression refers to turning the prop counter-clockwise until it stops. I like to bolt down my prop so the prop is at 3 o'clock at compression. Sometimes the engine will start backwards and that's just there's residual fuel on the carbureator. When that happens usually the engine will die on its own, but if it doesn't die, just cut the throttle and start again.

Good luck!

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

OK. I think I've got it except for this part. When you refer to turning the engine over, what does that mean exactly. Spin the prop counterclockwise till fuel comes out the hose in the back of the engine?

Here's the best picture of the bottom of the engine with the breather line is. It comes out about an inch and a half where the cheeks of the plane meet in the middle.

Thanks again.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Exactly, but you have to completely close the cabureator (close the throttle all the way) and plug your muffler with your finger. You have to keep the carbureator and muffler plugged the whole time while "you are turning over the engine". This is where a throttle kill on your radio helps or if you don't have a radio with a throttle cut, just put your throttle to zero and throttle trim to zero.

You will "turn the engine over" until fuel comes out of the breather line.

"You should hear a wet suction sound. That is when you know you have primed the engine correctly. Again, you might be flooding, but you shouldn't get any sort of lock.
4) Turn the prop so it is on its compression stroke and attach your glow starter.
5) Flip the prop against compression with a chicken stick and your engine should start on the first flip. If not, just flip a couple of more times and it will start."

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Well, scratch the MiniMax. It's a cool little starter (about half the size of a normal starter), but it just have the twist. I couldn't even get my TT 1.20 started with it. I'm sure it's fine for most .91 and under motors or a 4-stroke with lower compression.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Gotcha on the engine priming. Flipping against compression does that mean clockwise or counter-clockwise? Is this how engines can start backward?

Thanks.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Maybe I'm going about it the wrong way. Since my hobbico starter will start the Saito 180 when hooked up to a car battery, is there a compact field box type battery that will put out the same type of power a car battery will for a shorter time. Maybe a lipo?

To bad about the MiniMax. Thanks for letting me know.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

It's possible that you're field battery isn't up to par in which case you can just run down to just about any store and pick up a motorcycle battery. What you're really after here is voltage, not mAh capacity. I would (and am in the process of) putting two 8.4V RC Car packs together (16.8V) for an extra boost. Most starters can easily handle more than 12V. On a side note, I picked up a Sullivan Dynatron starter. It's a little more expensive, but it works really well on 12V. It's rated to run up to 24V so you should be able to turn over any engine out there with this starter on 24V.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

On the contrary, it is all about the MaH. Why do you think they put high capacity batteries in cars that live in cold weather all the time? More cranking power. You CAN substitute more volts but will need some capacity to do the job. 12 volt motorcycle or lawn tractor battery is a good method.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I have a 1.80 mounted inverted. my starter won't turn it over either. I used to wire two 12 volt batteries in series for more power, but now I just open the throttle wide, plug the muffler with my thumb and slowly hand crank it few times. You can hear fuel being sucked into the carb. Close the throttle to idle (I have on board glow) and flip the prop backwards against compression. Occasionally it starts in reverse, but sometimes it kicks back forward. If not, I just hit the kill switch and start over. Sometimes it's not necessary to re-prime. Thing I have to watch is the on board glow--I've had it kick on me just pushing the prop up to compression. Least I know it's ready when it does that.

Luck.

Greg

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Not exactly. mAh is the amount of capacity (or power over time) that a battery can produce. It has nothing to do with the amount of continuous current that can be drawn on a battery. For instance, you can get a Lipo battery that's only 300mAh but can put out 30 Amps continouse draw (for probably only a minute or two however). Car batteries use "Cold Cranking Amps", but that doesn't affect the overall mAh capacity of the battery. I don't think I've ever seen a car battery even rated in Amp hours. For a starter, at a given voltage it's going to try and draw a certain Amp load. If you up the voltage, it's going to try and draw more Amps and thus produce more power. mAh is definted by how many seconds a battery can provide 1 Amp continuous power.

The amount of mAh is going to dictate how often you need to charge your starter battery.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

Flip counter clockwise. Your engine starts counter clockwise as it should. The engine can start backwards because of that and/or because of residual fuel on the carbureator.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I use the Wal-Mart lawn tractor battery and my starter I don't even know the name of and it work out great. I have to recharge the battery every 4 to 6 months. Run my fueler, charge flight batteries, and remote glows, and all from it. A little extra weight..........Zero headaches

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I don't know if this helps but if you have wimpy wires coming from the battery to the starter, or power panel, that could make a difference. You will get more power with the started hooked up to the battery straight then thru wimpy wires.

Just a thought

Jon

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I have the Saito 180 and 125 I use my Heavy Duty starter you can get at most HS's or any RC online stores such as Horizon Hobby or Tower. Wind it counter clock wise until you get to compression stroke then engage starter it freewheels two three turns and has plenty then to keep it going. I have it hooked up to a garden tractor, lawn mower type battery that fits right into most field boxes. Works everytime and only needs charging maybe once a week for a little bit. You need a car type 35amp with a 200am quick start for a car to charge it or that is what I use guess you could charge it with cables like you would jump start another car. I works just fine for me. I have the chiken sticks but I guess these guys tune alot better than me because I would wear myself out trying to start my 180 with the stick. Plus no need to prime or anything with the starter. Just get the Heavy Duty. Around 40.00 i think it is. To tell the truth I have flown everyday the last week and half and have not had to charge battery as of yet. You only use it for 5 sec. at a time if that long. Good luck with what ever you decide but if I were you i would just get the mower, jet ski, you know battery.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

I'm going to look into one of those tractor/motorcycle batteries you guys have been suggesting. So to charge one of these type of batterys you would hook it up to a car battery with jumper cables and let the car run for a while? This battery will also be safe to charge my glow starter on my power panel and run my fuel pump as well?

Thanks Gang.

RE: Saito 180 starter?
 

You can buy a cheap car battery charger for about 20 bucks at kragen or checker