Cheap Trainer
 

It doesn't get cheaper than this for an ARF trainer http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBNK3&P=0

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Yep, and it's not a bad one to boot:D

Austin

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Wow! Now that's a fire sale!

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Decent size, and I'll bet you can go electric with it, w/o any problems.

I hope planes like this stear novices away from those awful "toys" they tend to purchase initially.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Good deal! I thought the Tower trainer was about the cheapest thing around. I like Lanier products. An old Lanier Comet was my favorite wind plane. Wrecked and rebuilt countless times, it became a quest to "fix it just one more time". Hmmm, I still have the pieces downstairs and nothing to do this weekend...:) Ross

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Everyone's trying to get rid of all the Lanier stock left over from when they went out of business. I just picked up 2 .60 size Stinger kits for $55 each - foam core wings and all.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Well my OS .40la just looked way too small in the engine bay on this plane, so after some checking for CG and weight i have decided to convert it to a tail dragger and use my 21cc weedeater GAS/GLOW engine on this plane, looks like AUW will be around 96oz which will still keep the wing loading below 20oz/sqft, this thing should get in the air quick with this engine, and with a 6oz tank i see runs around 15-20 mins based on bench testing of this engine, here's some pics, only a muffler, landing gear, and radio install to go.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

That is by a long shot way too much engine for that airplane.
I will bet it rips the firewall off on the first flight.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Why is that, it makes the same power as my TT PRO .46 but gets much better run time on the GAS/GLOW setup, lets say you had a ST GS45 on it plus the included engine mount it would weigh 22oz, this engine only weighs 31oz, so do you really think adding 9oz will destroy the plane, if i move the RX battery right behind the rudder and elevator servo the plane balances perfectly on the suggested CG so i can't be that far off.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Boy people here are quick to be negative. I think it will be a pretty cool plane if it works, which it should.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

You may think that but there is a reason. I do genuinly care what happens to this guys airplane and to him. You call it negativity, fine with me. I call it being safe. And strapping a 21CC gas engine on the front of a 40 size ARF trainer is not safe. I can picture him kneeling in front of that airplane starting that engine and when the engine gets running the possibility of it breaking loose and chewing his face off. Melodramatic? maybe, and I sure hope I am wrong.
21 CC equals 1.28 Cid on an airplane built for a .4 Cid engine. An ARF I might add.
I don't know what power figures you are using but that gas engine will at the very least more than double the power of any 40 size engine.
That airframe is just not built to handle the torque that engine is capable of delivering.
PS: I have had firewalls come loose on ARFs using the recommended engines.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Don't worry missleman, i have reglued the firewall and added some extra reinforcement, i can't see it coming loose anymore than on a bigger plane with a 1/4" ply firewall. This engine is a GAS/GLOW conversion engine from an old weedeater, it probably needs a new ring to make full power and with the ThrustHP calculator i can tell you that my TT PRO.46 spins a 12.25x3.75 @ 12500rpm which takes 1.18hp, my 21cc turns a 16x8@7000 which is 1.285hp, so the #'s are pretty close, for ground clearance i'm going to a 13x8 3 blade prop, i will make sure i get some video of the maiden, just waiting for a few more parts from tower, should be ready in two weeks.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

I have to agree with Missleman on this. The plane is not designed for that engine size.

You are starting off with a FAR BIGGER prop as suits that engine.

That 16x8 is going to mean a lot more torque on the fuselage framework, if you forget about everything else.

You may get a rocket like flight or two, but there is good likelyhood that the fuse is going to undergo damaged with each flight.

You'll also notice quite a bit of roll induced as you run the plane up in flight, yaw at take off will be more problematic, one wheel is going to get more force, and the list goes on.

If the plane were a bit larger....

While the BHP ratings make the engines look somewhat similiar, this can be deceptive. The gas engine has a bigger more massive cylinder head allowing it to turn that larger prop.

Even if the engine runs smoothly, a lot more energy will be transferred to the airframe with each stroke.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

I agree. Not negative, simply safety minded.

somegeek

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

I just purchased this plane from tower with a 20.00 discount from tower. It will be my 8 year old's first plane. I'm going to use a Evolution 46 on the front. I always reinforce the firewall on all planes. Keep us posted on how it flies with that big bad boy on the front. Have to call you "MORE POWER TIM THE TOOL MAN". You all ready know this but remember don't stand in front or to the side when running that big bad boy.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

How does the elevator work with the Two control wires from one push rod? I had a SU-31 that was built that way and it wouldn't even out in a hard dive. The plane would roll to the side. I cashed it before I fixed the problem.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...7/100_1014.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...7/100_1011.jpg

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

You guys have missed one part of his tell. Everyone is so sure the thing is gonna blow up in his face however it is his face and he stated that it had been bench tested now I know bench testing is not the same as in the air but lets face it sounds like he has a good idea of what he's doing and if not it's his face.....go tear it up!

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

1. The engine has been bench tested, that has nothing to do with weither the airframe can handle the engine.
2. This is the BEGINNERS forum, either he is a beginner and doesn't know what he is doing or he is experienced and should know better than to post something so potentially dangerous HERE where other beginners might think it is Ok to slap any size motor in an airplane no matter what the manufacturer recommends.
3. As I stated earlier, I don't want to see him get hurt, again, this is the beginners forum and if I see something I think might not be right I will speak up like it or not.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Good point missleman, my original post about the cheap trainer started here in the beginner forum so i just added to it, i guess i should have started a new one for this. This will be i think my 20th or 21st plane, so no, i'm not a beginner, maybe i will repost this in another forum. Tower order is on the way with my final parts to get here up in the air, can't wait, and don't worry i will use the utmost care with this plane/engine combo, and healthcare is free in canada incase something nasty happens.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

He He can't argue against free health care

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

free health care won't help the dead...

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Give the guy a break, yes it is dangerous, but he knows what he's getting into. The chances of someone getting hurt with this setup aren't much more than any other plane with a 20cc engine.

Austin

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Anytime you have a spinning prop on a plane it's always dangerous, not sure it matters if it's a 11x5 or the 13x8 ( 3 blade ) that i'll be running, they both can do damage, but if you know what you are doing and take all the safety precautions then accidents are less likely. This engine will be mounted on a rubber isolated mount and the firewall has been reinforced so only if the whole plane breaks apart will the engine fall off.

For the beginners: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Just an update, plane does fly, and missleman it didn't break on the first, second, third or fourth flight but just so you know i safety wired the engine to the landing gear so if it did break off it would not come at me. There is a hole in the walbro carb that i need to fix as it keeps deadsticking on me two minutes in.

I'm actually glad i used this 32oz engine, as a guy on RC Groups has had to add about 10oz of weight to the nose of his explorer running a .46 in order to get the CG balanced, but i will stress using an engine like this is not for a beginner.

Maiden vid http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/JL03MHZ3DMYHLR02

I have started a new thread for this in the engine conversions forum http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7125666/tm.htm since putting this in the beginner forum might have been a bad idea, but the cheap trainer wasn't, this is the best $49.99 plane that i have flew yet, and it is quite stable and as you can see lands nicely.

RE: Cheap Trainer
 

Well, Sir, and et.al. that are so confident, IMO, Missileman and opjose gave you fair warning. Hopefully you will be right and I would bet that these two concerned gentlemen wish you the same.
I have seen gas-burner firewalls leave the nose of models supposedly designed for the engine size. Although I did not see this incident, I was on the field at the time. XXX had flown this .60-.90 model --an ARF -- a around 10+/- flights over a couple days, with a G-38 up front. [:-] I suspect that the weight, torque, and vibration were all working together. This time he fired it up and before he was out of the way, that engine wanted to fly and was not gonna' wait for no darn airplane. It did grab on to a thumb and 2 fingers to take along for the ride. This particular RCer was a tad overly confident in his ways however I don't see him much anymore.
In the past few years, I have had a couple minor incidents which never happened for the 50 years prior. I am getting much more focused on safety than before. I do build with some overkill. [X(]
Here is an example: You can see that there are two heavy Alum. strips protuding behind the cowl. They are continuos around the firewall and this is only a G-26. The fuse. frame there is 1/8 ply with significant structure behind the ply. I don't think this one will jump from the firewall.
Best of luck to you, but remember that X John Smith had 40 years at sea with never an accident the night he sailed as Captain of the Titanic. Shot happens, no matter how experienced one might be.